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32 minutes ago, Flying dutchman said:

Wel.. no one can say sn1 didn't fly...

I'd rather have them take their time. I'm getting sick and tired of getting my hopes up.

I’m just sick of not having a big fully assembled Starship to drool at. We need to have one at all times! \o/

:( 

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7 hours ago, Flying dutchman said:

Wel.. no one can say sn1 didn't fly...

I'd rather have them take their time. I'm getting sick and tired of getting my hopes up.

This is how they learn. It’s happened before:


‘Member how many times it took them to get booster landing right?

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Regardless, this was an unintended event. Musk said in that AF video above that designing a rocket is easy, but building that design (so it works) is hard, and building the capability to produce them in numbers efficiently is harder still. He also said (he was referring to Tesla) that designing the production line at the same time as the final product was also good, since changes in both can happen (change the design to make mfg more efficient, and changing the production line to meet design changes in the vehicle). They're clearly messing with both at the same time. Still, a disappointing result.

My guess is that they have to go to fully automated welding to get a useful product, and inside a partially controlled environment (largely away from any wind). Good welding for their use case requires bathing the weld area in inert gasses, and wind blows those away, resulting in oxidation. Dunno, I don;t see this crane-lifted sections thing working, certainly not outside.

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The most uplifting thought is that, compared to Falcon 1, Musk and SpaceX have enough money to keep going even if they fail a couple of times.

Falcon 1 had serious problems too. And they had limited number of rockets and funding to reach the orbit. Here, we might wait a couple more tries (and failures) but I'm 100% sure that sooner or later we will see that thing actually fly.

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This might not help for the internal tanks, but imagine if they had the machinery to create a roll of metal with a sheet width the same as the circumference of the rocket. Starship is 9m I think so let’s say 30m or so wide sheet coming off the roll, then you could just roll out the metal sheet to the desired length, cut the sheet off the roll and bring both sides up to meet for a single weld line the length of the rocket. 
not sure if it’s possible or if there is any machine in existence that could do that. But you cut out a lot of welds right there!

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34 minutes ago, Dale Christopher said:

This might not help for the internal tanks, but imagine if they had the machinery to create a roll of metal with a sheet width the same as the circumference of the rocket. Starship is 9m I think so let’s say 30m or so wide sheet coming off the roll, then you could just roll out the metal sheet to the desired length, cut the sheet off the roll and bring both sides up to meet for a single weld line the length of the rocket. 
not sure if it’s possible or if there is any machine in existence that could do that. But you cut out a lot of welds right there!

You're talking about extrusion, and while it works great on some kinds of metal (like aluminum and copper), it doesn't work as well on many kinds of steel. I don't know if it's even a possible option for this.

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There are automated systems that build water/oil/whatever tanks. Rolls of metal stock no in one end, and the tube grows vertically with no human involvement.

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Just now, tater said:

There are automated systems that build water/oil/whatever tanks. Rolls of metal stock no in one end, and the tube grows vertically with no human involvement.

But as I just said, this is only suitable for some metals, not all.

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3 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

You're talking about extrusion, and while it works great on some kinds of metal (like aluminum and copper), it doesn't work as well on many kinds of steel. I don't know if it's even a possible option for this.

Well, it wouldn't be any different than making the current rolls they make now, just bigger. But I can imagine making a roll 30m (over 150' feet!) wide would require a whole new, huge smelter/foundry, which would probably cost in the billions, if not tens of billions

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Just now, StrandedonEarth said:

Well, it wouldn't be any different than making the current rolls they make now, just bigger. But I can imagine making a roll 30m (over 150' feet!) wide would require a whole new, huge smelter/foundry, which would probably cost in the billions, if not tens of billions

No. Tooling for large parts is expensive, but it's not *that* expensive.

Putting a huge investment into tooling would be counter-productive for SpaceX at this point, because they keep changing the design. So they would need to keep changing the tooling.

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15 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

But as I just said, this is only suitable for some metals, not all.

The video I saw (think I posted way up thread) was for steel.

 

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21 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

Putting a huge investment into tooling would be counter-productive for SpaceX at this point, because they keep changing the design. So they would need to keep changing the tooling.

Yer but, if we are talking economy of scale and quality of end product being critical to hit pressure/ performance requirements. AND if Elon is going to pump out hundreds of these ships in an attempt to reduce Earth to Mars logistics bandwidth to enable a meaningful number of people and cargo to make the trip, with goals for Mars cities having populations in the hundreds of thousands even millions! 
 

Then a big upfront investment on the Starship factory might not be such a far fetched idea. And there is already a precedent in the Gigafactory. It’s his MO really @[email protected] but yer... 

Is 30m wide rolls of metal even possible XD

it might not even be a benefit over rings anyway I duno.

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18 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

No. Tooling for large parts is expensive, but it's not *that* expensive.

Putting a huge investment into tooling would be counter-productive for SpaceX at this point, because they keep changing the design. So they would need to keep changing the tooling.

Tooling, no, but if they had to build a new smelter/foundry to feed such large tooling, I would expect that to run 8-9 digits. And the basic 9m diameter, stainless steel barrel design hasn't changed since it changed to steel. Although by the time they want to make such wide rolls, they may as well run the steel straight from the rollers to the tube-former and skip the hassle of forming and transporting extremely long rolls of stainless steel sheet.

It might make sense once they have a finalized design to start cranking out Starship and SH boosters, although the tooling to form tubes that large would also be an expensive challenge.

Now, if they could build a press to start stamping out bulkheads and nose parts, that would be another use for extra-wide rolls.

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