Boring company

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

It doesn't seem like we have a thread for this yet, unless it was also assimilated by the Blue Origin thread.

A official video from The Boring Company was recently released at a TED talk:

This is not what I expected. Who will pay for the little carts? I get that it solves the problem of emissions from gas cars underground, but it definitely adds complexity for electric ones.

Discuss!

[TheEpicSquared]

I see some immediate flaws with the carts. 

First, they seem to run on rails, so what happens if something goes wrong with the rails? That whole stretch of tunnel grinds to a halt. 

Also, how will the cart avoid other carts? The same autopilot system as in the Teslas?

To me, it seems like an immensely overcomplicated system. Sure, I get that Musk is trying to change the world, but I don't see why the current tunnel system doesn't work.  

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

9 minutes ago, TheEpicSquared said:

I see some immediate flaws with the carts. 

First, they seem to run on rails, so what happens if something goes wrong with the rails? That whole stretch of tunnel grinds to a halt. 

Also, how will the cart avoid other carts? The same autopilot system as in the Teslas?

To me, it seems like an immensely overcomplicated system. Sure, I get that Musk is trying to change the world, but I don't see why the current tunnel system doesn't work.  

Maybe you can just route them onto a different lane? 

Probably like that but if every car's autopilot was networked.

I don't know, I guess this would make it safer and faster, but why have cars in the system at all? Why not just those plexiglass bus things that were in the video?

[monstah]

1 hour ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

It doesn't seem like we have a thread for this yet, unless it was also assimilated by the Blue Origin thread.

It was  

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

12 minutes ago, monstah said:

It was  

Will there be a problem with this being the new boring company thread?

--The forums auto merged this--

Some new news:

https://boringcompany.com/

http://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-machine-outside-spacex/

Edited April 28, 2017 by Mad Rocket Scientist

[monstah]

45 minutes ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

Will there be a problem with this being the new boring company thread?

I certainly hope not!

[cubinator]

That machine looks suspiciously like a repurposed rocket fuselage...

[StupidAndy]

okay! nobody asked me, but my specialty is butting in on conversations with topics I like! also for other people like me who like a topic but know nothing about it!

BEHOLD! THE SCIENCE ABOUT THE REASON THEY HAVE THOSE ELECTRIC CARTS!

the reason they have those electric carts is because of if there was all of the gasoline powered cars underground, it would make tons (and I mean TONS) of carbon dioxide. now cars run on gasoline combining with air and exploding, that's what an internal combustion engine is, now if they have all of the cars expelling the CO2 all the time, that's a lot of CO2, so if there would eventually have no more O2 for engines, so they would have the engines die, now current tunnels like one in England that I forgot the name of have these towers that have the CO2 rise into the atmosphere away from the tunnel. now we cant do that in the middle of a city, because the towers will have to take out a few buildings, that would be expensive, and we all know that Elon Musk the great and powerful doesn't like large expensive things (why spacex does those cool landings (they're not just for show!)) so that wouldn't be the Elon way, and we cant put them like subway grates or there would be some weird things going on at street level with drowsy people with CO2 poisoning, so that's a ton of lawsuits, and that's expensive, so no.

with those electric cars, we don't need that! they don't have internal combustion engines so they don't expel CO2, so no CO2 towers that cost a ton of money!

please don't tell me I'm wrong

[LaytheDragon]

Finally, Elon Musk previews us the meal he is preparing in the SpaceX parking lot.  A month can't go by without a new announcement relating to an Elon company, can it? Making it a boring one doesn't change that.

First thoughts on the video, what a great excuse to increase the use of electric vehicles. At least there won't be many fumes that can combust in the tunnels (though how will it be required to completely turn off a traditionally-fueled car that enters?). There are still problem, though. How would you choose your destination or know where a tunnel leads? for example.

4 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

Maybe you can just route them onto a different lane? 

Probably like that but if every car's autopilot was networked.

I don't know, I guess this would make it safer and faster, but why have cars in the system at all? Why not just those plexiglass bus things that were in the video?

Using only busses is an inconvenience and limits potential. When stuck in traffic in a city as bad as LA, what are you to do with your car if you want to save time via the tunnels? Why over-complicate it by finding a parking spot, taking the subterra-bus, and having to do the same thing again to get back to your car, when you can bring your car with you? Allowing cars into the system will make it a more efficient, useful undertaking to construct. The bigger question is how it will be funded, and as an extension, how a toll system would be built into it.

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by LaytheDragon

[WinkAllKerb'']

it's a bit "segregative" as is ... and at first ... and ... but well ... also the entrance/exit design and congestion potential issue ?, walker, kid, ballon, bird, cat, dog etc. free fall ?

Edited April 29, 2017 by WinkAllKerb''

[YNM]

For sure, this is not going to work in cities where underground systems are widely used already. Europe comes to mind...

Edited April 29, 2017 by YNM

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

The TED talk is here!

Hey, TED talks embed!

EDIT: no, they don't. https://www.ted.com/talks/elon_musk_the_future_we_re_building_and_boring#t-2156

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Mad Rocket Scientist

[Nibb31]

Another one of Elon's plans that looks good in a video, but where the actual engineering will be a nightmare. Let's see... First, how do these lifts work ? When the cart goes down, it leaves a huge open hole in the pavement, which is a huge hazard. There might be a hatch, but that is also a huge hazard in itself. It can have sensors on it, but how does it handle a piece of trash blocking a sensor? How does it handle some debris blocking it?

Also, it really doesn't seem to scale well. Hundreds of elevator shafts like this will cost billions to build, much more than a simple ramp. And the video shows a car driving on as soon as another goes down, but what happens when hundreds of cars are queuing up to take the tunnel. A conventional tunnel can handle thousands of vehicles per hour. This can probably handle a maximum of 60 and the tailbacks will be huge.

Oh and the tunnel. There are reasons why there are regulations for tunnels. Notably for fire and evacuation requirements. In Europe, since the Mont Blanc disaster (where 39 people died), tunnels must have twin main tubes, an evacuation tunnel, and have fireproof emergency shelters every hundred meters. I'm pretty sure most other countries have similar regulations. There is no way Elon is going to get away with 4m single tube tunnels with no means for evacuation or emergency response.

There are so many failure modes that need to be dealt with: mechanical problems on the elevator, electrical problems on a cart, debris in the tunnel, and of course, fire, collision, congestion, and so on... I really don't see this as being practical as envisioned.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Nibb31

[kerbiloid]

Expectations

Spoiler

Reality

Spoiler

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by kerbiloid

[magnemoe]

20 hours ago, Nibb31 said:

Another one of Elon's plans that looks good in a video, but where the actual engineering will be a nightmare. Let's see... First, how do these lifts work ? When the cart goes down, it leaves a huge open hole in the pavement, which is a huge hazard. There might be a hatch, but that is also a huge hazard in itself. It can have sensors on it, but how does it handle a piece of trash blocking a sensor? How does it handle some debris blocking it?

Also, it really doesn't seem to scale well. Hundreds of elevator shafts like this will cost billions to build, much more than a simple ramp. And the video shows a car driving on as soon as another goes down, but what happens when hundreds of cars are queuing up to take the tunnel. A conventional tunnel can handle thousands of vehicles per hour. This can probably handle a maximum of 60 and the tailbacks will be huge.

Oh and the tunnel. There are reasons why there are regulations for tunnels. Notably for fire and evacuation requirements. In Europe, since the Mont Blanc disaster (where 39 people died), tunnels must have twin main tubes, an evacuation tunnel, and have fireproof emergency shelters every hundred meters. I'm pretty sure most other countries have similar regulations. There is no way Elon is going to get away with 4m single tube tunnels with no means for evacuation or emergency response.

There are so many failure modes that need to be dealt with: mechanical problems on the elevator, electrical problems on a cart, debris in the tunnel, and of course, fire, collision, congestion, and so on... I really don't see this as being practical as envisioned.

Yes, the hole makes no sense except looking fancy. 
Better way to do it, take an small underground parking lot, you drive down to row of carts waiting, you drive up on cart who then moves to center and into tunnel. at destination you enter another parking lot, cart park you drive off and cart moves to entry position. 
Still capacity will be far lower than normal tunnels, yes this would also be an subway and the car handling would be an premium service. 

You can probably reduce safety an bit, make it closer to railway tunnels as its less chance for crashes, perhaps have an system for carts to recover other carts with an stop. 
They will probably use dual tunnels a lot anyway as its an good idea

[kerbiloid]

1. The car should get off the road in special places. Otherwise either somebody will run over its head, or crash into the platform side, or fall down through the hole.

2. Those places can be called "elevators"

3. Place it on Mars.

4....

5. PROFIT!!!

Spoiler

 

Also, an underground  water tunnel and styrofoam trays would make the rails unnecessary.

Spoiler

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by kerbiloid

[Crimeo]

Musk lost all credibility to me as an expert on anything tunnel related after his insane plan to try and build a 400 mile long vacuum death trap tunnel... Fool me once...

He should stick to vehicles, he seems pretty competent at various vehicles.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Crimeo

[NSEP]

It almost seems like Elon Musk makes companies like how i make savegames in KSP lol.

[StrandedonEarth]

4 hours ago, NSEP said:

It almost seems like Elon Musk makes companies like how i make savegames in KSP lol.

I bet he wishes he could simply revert to VAB sometimes.

[NSEP]

2 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I bet he wishes he could simply revert to VAB sometimes.

Yeah, that would be usefull.

[Spaceception]

 

[tater]

Given that Musk is actually making progress (along with many others) on autonomous cars, the idea of moving the CAR via a sort of mass transit is silly. He himself says that self-driving will in fact result in people not owning cars, but car service. Right now, you want to bring the car, because once you get off a train, you have no way to get anywhere, and US cities (particularly in the West) are very spread out. You NEED a car when you get off transit.

In the world of self driving cars, a car you don't own takes you to the station, you get on the transit, and when you get off---a car you don't own picks you up. It's quite possibly organized enough to pick you up as you walk out the door. This entirely defeats the requirement to drag the car along for the ride.

[Spaceception]

Have to take it one step at a time, people will still want to own and drive cars for awhile, this just to make driving within cities bearable for now.

[Jovus]

Someone else who knows better than me: isn't LA only just above its own water-table? Wouldn't boring holes underneath it require you to constantly evacuate said water?

Not that this is impossible (see: Chunnel), just maybe not an awesome idea (see: Chunnel).

[LordFerret]

28 minutes ago, Jovus said:

Someone else who knows better than me: isn't LA only just above its own water-table? Wouldn't boring holes underneath it require you to constantly evacuate said water?

Not that this is impossible (see: Chunnel), just maybe not an awesome idea (see: Chunnel).

Not to mention that it sits atop a major fault line.