StrandedonEarth Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, satnet said: In addition to the effects in flight there are the effects on transport. The reason a Falcon 9 is 3.7 meters wide is because that is the widest they could make it and transport it by road. Having said that, Blue Origin is going with wider rockets (7 meters). I don't know how they plan to transport it from the assembly plant to the launch site, though transport by sea seems probable. SpaceX is building the BFR (9 meters) at a port so that it can be transported by sea. Basically the trend seems to agree with you, but it creates some complications in terms of locating assembly facilities and transporting the assembled rocket. The New Glenn factory is located at the cape. Not far to transport at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 On 10/21/2018 at 1:26 AM, CatastrophicFailure said: They're not gonna need a bigger boat... Wouldn't a barge be more stable ? I mean, they have flat bottoms and normal ships have rounded bottoms... Also, I hope they've counted it properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, YNM said: Wouldn't a barge be more stable ? I mean, they have flat bottoms and normal ships have rounded bottoms... Also, I hope they've counted it properly. Maybe the advantage to using a ship is that really large New-Glenn sized ships may be more plentiful and cheaper than New-Glenn sized barges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickSawyer Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, satnet said: In addition to the effects in flight there are the effects on transport. The reason a Falcon 9 is 3.7 meters wide is because that is the widest they could make it and transport it by road. Having said that, Blue Origin is going with wider rockets (7 meters). I don't know how they plan to transport it from the assembly plant to the launch site, though transport by sea seems probable. SpaceX is building the BFR (9 meters) at a port so that it can be transported by sea. Basically the trend seems to agree with you, but it creates some complications in terms of locating assembly facilities and transporting the assembled rocket. They don't need to transport the stages very far... they're building them at the Cape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 54 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said: Maybe the advantage to using a ship is that really large New-Glenn sized ships may be more plentiful and cheaper than New-Glenn sized barges. Possibly, could also be that a ship does a better job of staying upright (wrt 'horizon') compared to barges (which does a better job at staying parallel to the sea surface). I just hope they really have calculated everything and didn't just go "oh, we can use that" "alright, just procure it, we'll see what we can do to it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibb31 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Blue Origin is assembling its rockets at the Cape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Nibb31 said: Blue Origin is assembling its rockets at the Cape. Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Xd the great said: Which one? The orbital rocket, New Glenn. The suborbital New Shepard doesn't ever need to be on a ship, it is already transported on highways, it's tiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightside Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 8 hours ago, YNM said: I just hope they really have calculated everything and didn't just go "oh, we can use that" "alright, just procure it, we'll see what we can do to it" I don't think an impulse purchase of a useless ship or two is going to break the bank. I think the ship is probably much better than a barge for operating in foul weather and quickly transporting the rocket from the landing station. Do we know if the ship will be manned during landings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Blue Origin doesn't do anything without a plan. This was no impulse purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 7 hours ago, Nightside said: I think the ship is probably much better than a barge for operating in foul weather and quickly transporting the rocket from the landing station. Yeah, although nailing the stability is going to be harder (as the reactionary forces are not perpendicular to the deck), but on the plus side ships with rounded hulls tend to stay upright better than barges. 7 hours ago, tater said: Blue Origin doesn't do anything without a plan. This was no impulse purchase. My rationale was that they need to do extensive modification CoM-wise, there's no way the loading of a ferry ship is going to match the limiting cases of a landing ship. So I'm not sure whether Stena Line informed BO of the detailed drawings of the ship before the purchase or not. Also, the ship's bridge looks... precarious in case of explosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 They're gonna massively alter the ship: Don't forget that this: became this: This: Became: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 43 minutes ago, tater said: This: Became: The first pic is a nice looking ship. In the second it looks ready to be scuttled. Yeah, I don't think I'd want to be on the ship when a booster is landing, unless it's on an armored lifeboat/ Especially not the first landing attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, StrandedonEarth said: The first pic is a nice looking ship. In the second it looks ready to be scuttled. USS Rasher scuttled her One fish hit her in the stern, avgas tanks blew and she sank in 28 minutes. Edited October 24, 2018 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, tater said: USS Rasher scuttled her One fish hit her in the stern, avgas tanks blew and she sank in 28 minutes. Deliberate? What flag did that liner/carrier steam under? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 36 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said: Deliberate? What flag did that liner/carrier steam under? She sank IJN Taiyo. Did you miss the "this" (liner) became "this" (an aircraft carrier)? Just as the USS Langley was converted from a collier to CV-1, other ships were also converted to flattops in various navies. The ship BO bought will be similarly converted. (and yes, the USN deliberately sank Japanese vessels (all types) in WW2. In fact, they sank almost all of them (IJN, IJA, and the Japanese merchant marine as well)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Yeah, I caught that that lovely looking liner was converted into that derelict-looking flattop. But I couldn’t place the nationality, and some neuroflatulence convinced me it was another USN job. I stand corrected. At least BOs conversion should be purdier, since it’s peacetime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Taiyo was OK looking for an escort carrier. IJN carriers look odd to someone used to USN ships, that's for sure. I'm guessing the BO ship looks decently close to the animation when they are done. I would imagine they armor the deck, and have the crew someplace decently safe during landing ops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Lets play "dodge the rocket"! Still, does the new glenn have enough weight to do a hover before landing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickSawyer Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 9 hours ago, Xd the great said: Lets play "dodge the rocket"! Still, does the new glenn have enough weight to do a hover before landing? Depends on how much of a deep throttle capacity the BE-4 has... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 15 hours ago, tater said: Taiyo was OK looking for an escort carrier. IJN carriers look odd to someone used to USN ships, that's for sure. I'm guessing the BO ship looks decently close to the animation when they are done. I would imagine they armor the deck, and have the crew someplace decently safe during landing ops. Photo quality also matter a lot, you see it a lot in old photos, typical amateur photos 50 years ago tend to be extremely blur while 150 year old studio shots have excellent quality. First was an photo representing the ship, second likely an amateur shot. Compare the US an Japanese carriers, the US one even has an open hangar bay but the photo was from air, the Japanese one was likely an amateur with an horrible camera. having advanced AI in camera tend to help, if only the AI could prevent portrait videos, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 CV-1 (USS Langley) was literally the first US aircraft carrier, and was not purpose built (nor had any USN CVs been purpose built yet). Japanese designs continued with that look, while US designs ended up to what we think of now as a CV (albeit much smaller than modern CVs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, tater said: CV-1 (USS Langley) was literally the first US aircraft carrier, and was not purpose built (nor had any USN CVs been purpose built yet). Japanese designs continued with that look, while US designs ended up to what we think of now as a CV (albeit much smaller than modern CVs). Yes but Japan also converted far more ships including battleships under construction as carriers was more efficient, US simply build both carriers and battleships. Beeing able to out produce your enemy by one order of magnitude has benefits in an long war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 On 10/24/2018 at 2:28 PM, MaverickSawyer said: Depends on how much of a deep throttle capacity the BE-4 has... Assuming that they will fly a similar flight profile to SpaceX, if they can throttle to 50% they should have no problem and even if the minimum throttle is 75%, they're well within my guess for being able to hover land. The Falcon 9 has a very high mass ratio so the booster is very light when it comes back (thus the hoverslam landing). Based on Blue Origin's published payloads and some back of the napkin calculations (spreadsheet), they have a ton of dV margin and the booster can be reasonably heavy when it lands and well within the engine's throttle range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 The Blue Origin customer guide for payloads is out (a PDF), here are some pics from it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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