Blue Origin thread.

[tater]

1 hour ago, sevenperforce said:

I believe they did a maximum altitude abort test, let me look.

Yep, July 18, 2018. They fired the abort motor shortly after MECO and separation. It reached 120 km, about 14 km higher than on a nominal flight.

Yeah, and any crew would have had a pretty... sporty ride. Think it was like 10g.

[sh1pman]

3 hours ago, tater said:

Yeah, and any crew would have had a pretty... sporty ride. Think it was like 10g.

That can count as a “high-gee adventure” and cost extra fee for the tourists.

[Beccab]

Didn't see this posted here yet
https://www.businessinsider.in/science/news/jeff-bezoss-guests-describe-a-short-crowded-spaceflight-experience-there-was-not-quite-enough-room/articleshow/84600925.cms
"Jeff Bezos' guest [Wally Funk] describes a short, crowded spaceflight experience: 'There was not quite enough room'"

[Deddly]

23 minutes ago, Beccab said:

Didn't see this posted here yet
https://www.businessinsider.in/science/news/jeff-bezoss-guests-describe-a-short-crowded-spaceflight-experience-there-was-not-quite-enough-room/articleshow/84600925.cms
"Jeff Bezos' guest [Wally Funk] describes a short, crowded spaceflight experience: 'There was not quite enough room'"

She did also say she loved every minute of it, though. 

[Beccab]

2 minutes ago, Deddly said:

She did also say she loved every minute of it, though. 

Oh absolutely, I was just quoting the title

[tater]

  

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/22/us/faa-changes-astronaut-wings-scn/index.html

Quote

Effective July 20, the FAA issued one more critical criterion: Commercial launch crew members must also demonstrate "activities during flight that were essential to public safety, or contributed to human space flight safety," an FAA spokesperson said, quoting the new order.

 

Quote

The FAA created the Commercial Astronaut Wings Program in 2004 after Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipOne became the first private spacecraft to reach space.

David Mackay and Mike Masucci, the two pilots for Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo flight on July 11, had already received their astronaut wings. So had one of the mission specialists, Beth Moses, on a previous test flight. But the three other mission specialists, including Branson, were first-time fliers and were on board to either evaluate the astronaut experience or conduct suborbital scientific research. Neither activity would explicitly qualify them to receive their wings under the FAA's new order.

 

The four crew members on board Blue Origin's first crewed flight did even less during their 10-minute-long suborbital flight. The company's CEO, Bob Smith, explained during a prelaunch mission briefing that the New Shepard spacecraft "is an autonomous vehicle. There's really nothing for a crew member to go do."

A spokesperson for the FAA said the shift was made because it "aligns more directly to the FAA's role to protect public safety during commercial space operations." The FAA did not respond to an inquiry about why the change took effect on the same day as the Blue Origin flight.

When asked what the change in policy means for the most recent space tourists, an FAA spokesperson said that, in order to get astronaut wings, a nomination is required.

"There are no nominations currently before the FAA to review," the spokesperson said.

 

[mikegarrison]

28 minutes ago, tater said:

  https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/22/us/faa-changes-astronaut-wings-scn/index.html

I'm not sure what the government was doing getting involved in handing out "wings" to people on commercial flights anyway. Bunch of foolishness that we shouldn't be spending government money on.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

25 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

I'm not sure what the government was doing getting involved in handing out "wings" to people on commercial flights anyway. Bunch of foolishness that we shouldn't be spending government money on.

Napoleon noted that people are motivated by little pieces of cloth.  Clearly Bezos thought that handing out BO Wings was a thing.  TWA, PanAm and Delta all gave me wings when I flew in the 70s.

I think people are, perhaps, making a bit too much about this - but for some people symbols really matter 

As far as the government handing out wings - it makes sense to do so if it's a traditional military /government funded science mission (coins and mementos are fun) - but we are leaving the realm of when all space travel was government funded - so I agree with you that the government should not give every passenger of a commercial flight a memento. 

You might know this better than I, but are FAA certified pilots authorized to wear wings as a symbol of the licensing? 

Edited July 23, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[sevenperforce]

4 hours ago, Beccab said:

"Jeff Bezos' guest [Wally Funk] describes a short, crowded spaceflight experience: 'There was not quite enough room'"

Yep, that was my thought as well. Once everyone was out of their seats, it looked very crowded. Hard to do a backflip if you’re gonna kick someone in the face.

[wumpus]

23 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

There is no reason for that assumption, because there is no reason for them to design it that way.

The only reason to design it that way would be in case of a failed separation.  I can't think of *any* rocket (crewed or not) that failed due to a separation, so they wouldn't design it that way.  But if separation failed, and wasn't a complete surprise to Blue Origin (probably only possible if they were trying something new like Spacex and pneumatic separation), then I'd expect the booster to handle the landing with capsule.

I don't think Blue Honeywell has tried anything new.

Edited July 23, 2021 by wumpus
could I leave out a more critical word?

[cubinator]

8 minutes ago, wumpus said:

I can't think of *any* rocket (crewed or not) that failed due to a separation,

Zuma satellite, which had a custom payload adapter that failed to separate it from Falcon 9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuma_(satellite)

[sevenperforce]

34 minutes ago, wumpus said:

if separation failed, and wasn't a complete surprise to Blue Origin (probably only possible if they were trying something new like Spacex and pneumatic separation), then I'd expect the booster to handle the landing with capsule.

There's just no way the booster can handle the landing with the capsule. It's not aerodynamically stable in the engine-first orientation. The capsule has to separate in order for the ring fin to open up and provide sufficient drag.

[mikegarrison]

1 hour ago, sevenperforce said:

Yep, that was my thought as well. Once everyone was out of their seats, it looked very crowded. Hard to do a backflip if you’re gonna kick someone in the face.

Depends. Maybe somebody there really wanted an excuse to kick Jeff Bezos in the face?

[tater]

1 minute ago, mikegarrison said:

Depends. Maybe somebody there really wanted an excuse to kick Jeff Bezos in the face?

Would have to be Oliver, he was the only one that paid… course any brother might wanna kick a brother in the face, too.

[mikegarrison]

Just now, tater said:

Would have to be Oliver, he was the only one that paid.

You mean, his dad paid.

[wumpus]

31 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

You mean, his dad paid.

Makes the kick feel better when you don't have to cough up millions to do it.

42 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

There's just no way the booster can handle the landing with the capsule. It's not aerodynamically stable in the engine-first orientation. The capsule has to separate in order for the ring fin to open up and provide sufficient drag.

Yeah, that makes sense.  So if separation failed, the press could go on and on about how the peculiar shape of the rocket lead to the death of all aboard (although I'd suspect the center of mass difference would make it unlikely to be aerodynamically stable even with a constant diameter rocket).

[CatastrophicFailure]

1 hour ago, wumpus said:

I can't think of *any* rocket (crewed or not) that failed due to a separation

FYI, Soyuz 18a. Also MS-10, technically. 

[Beccab]

Basically, BO offers to pay 1/3 of their own lander if NASA gives them a contract. Given it is known NASA didn't even have enough money for a single lander this seems like a PR stunt to me. Plus, the timing is extremely odd, it's possible the GAO protest (which is to have an answer no later than 4th august) failed

Edit: Berger's tweet sums it up pretty well

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Beccab

[tater]

3 minutes ago, Beccab said:

Basically, BO offers to pay 1/3 of their own lander if NASA gives them a contract. Given it is known NASA didn't even have enough money for a single lander this seems like a PR stunt to me. Plus, the timing is extremely odd, it's possible the GAO protest (which is to have an answer no later than 4th august) failed

I don't think it's a PR stunt, I think it's a closer approximation of what they need to do. The whole point was for the competitors to have real skin in the game, and the BO bid was effectively an old-space proposal, "Give us many billions and we will build you the thing."

[Beccab]

2 minutes ago, tater said:

I don't think it's a PR stunt, I think it's a closer approximation of what they need to do. The whole point was for the competitors to have real skin in the game, and the BO bid was effectively an old-space proposal, "Give us many billions and we will build you the thing."

But NASA just doesn't have the money to do that, we knows it and BO knows it. The budget for second lander (not a different lander for LETS than spacex, a second lander) is at zero, not 4 billion dollars

Edited July 26, 2021 by Beccab

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

I thought Bezos was a better business dude than this - all he has to do is bring back 18 pounds of moon rocks and sell them on the open market... Instantly funded 

$213 million-per-pound price tag on the Luna-16 samples... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/kionasmith/2018/11/30/soviet-lunar-samples-sell-for-855000-at-sothebys/amp/

He should have said - we will bring you to the moon, but we get a cut of the rocks. 

[tater]

He should just tell them he's building it anyway.

That's the funny thing about the HLS contract competition. I assumed SpaceX would lose, because it is patently obvious that SpaceX is building Starship regardless of NASA, so they could always buy the service later once it exists anyway.

No funding, and Dynetics disappears.

No funding and BO might continue their lander—the descent stage—, but LockMart making an ascent stage with their own money? LOL, no. They'll pitch in in some institutional coffee for the engineers, but they want their X billion first, please.

Edited July 26, 2021 by tater

[mikegarrison]

5 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

I thought Bezos was a better business dude than this - all he has to do is bring back 18 pounds of moon rocks and sell them on the open market... Instantly funded 

$213 million-per-pound price tag on the Luna-16 samples... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/kionasmith/2018/11/30/soviet-lunar-samples-sell-for-855000-at-sothebys/amp/

He should have said - we will bring you to the moon, but we get a cut of the rocks. 

I hear that powdered moon rock makes a great portal surface.

[cubinator]

2 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

I hear that powdered moon rock makes a great portal surface.

Just don't tell him that it's pure poison.

[RealKerbal3x]

At this point they should just rename New Glenn to New Musk.