severedsolo

[1.7.x] Oh Scrap!- A ScrapYard based Part Failure and Reliability Mod 1.6.3 (22/06/2019)

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Thought a bit more about it, found the idea of increased chance of failure making no sense at all with the current mechanics.

All it's adding is an extra annoying step of launching vessel and recovering it prior to actual launch. And increased build times with KCT.

Maybe it will make more sense if failure chances transfered to the next launch if part was set to fail but didn't have enough time before recovery. But then, as a player I wouldn't like to just watch the rocket on pad for 30 minutes just to be sure it won't explode next time.

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Another note: while engines have smallest accumulated chance of failure, parts that have the greatest are parachutes. The rebalance of this is literally vital (to kerbals, that is).

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On 5/21/2017 at 3:54 AM, severedsolo said:

Essentially yes, but rather than needing to gather in-flight data it's assumed the data is automatically streamed back to KSC and the next build will be more reliable.

That's actually exactly how TestFlight works :)

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Just now, Agathorn said:

That's actually exactly how TestFlight works :)

Ah fair enough. I must admit I've never used it, I was just going by the mods description.

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1 minute ago, severedsolo said:

Ah fair enough. I must admit I've never used it, I was just going by the mods description.

What you describe here is actually very similar to what my Mod does, but I ain't mad :)  Good luck to you.

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Really excited to see this!

Couple of questions, though. What happens to a failed part once it's recovered? Does it get added back to your inventory? If so, does its reliability get reset?

On 21/05/2017 at 0:30 PM, severedsolo said:

There is no MTBF - what matters is how many times that part has been flown/built. Parts don't become more prone to failure on long missions (I made a concious decision to do this, as I would essentially be making DangIt! otherwise).

Does that mean you intend the mod to be compatible with DangIt?

And how safe would this be to install mid-save?
 

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Might be interesting to see if this and Dang It could be merged somehow.

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9 hours ago, baldamundo said:

Couple of questions, though. What happens to a failed part once it's recovered? Does it get added back to your inventory? If so, does its reliability get reset?

I'm assuming you are concerned about having old worn out parts being re-used and immediately failing again - that won't happen. When a part fails, the dice are rolled again, if it fails, the part will tell ScrapYard not to recover it. (So new parts that have failed despite the odds will probably be recovered, but an old worn out part at the end of it's life won't)

You can see if a part can be recovered by trying to repair it on EVA - if it's been marked as permanently damaged, you won't be able to repair it.

9 hours ago, baldamundo said:

Does that mean you intend the mod to be compatible with DangIt?

Intend to be largely yes, although UPFM is a bit aggressive with enforcing it's failures, I don't know if that would interefere with DangIt.

9 hours ago, baldamundo said:

And how safe would this be to install mid-save?

"Will it break my save" - no.

How "safe" it would be for your ships would largely depend on whether you already have ScrapYard installed. If you do, then the tracker should have already been working in the background anyway, so the failure rates will be reasonable. If not, then everything is going to be counted as Gen 1/First Flight - and probably fail if you look at it too hard.

Edited by severedsolo

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New Beta; Beta 3:

  • Fixed failures not persisting between scene changes
  • Fixed some nasty NRE's that would have emerged if the above was actually working
  • Added Solar panel retraction failures
  • Reduced time to engine failure (this is a bandaid, at some point I will re-write the failure module completely for engines, probably to the one @Pand5461 suggested)
Edited by severedsolo

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Has anyone got this working in 1.3? I tried it early on and it didn't seem to load at all but wasn't sure if it was related to this or other potentially unstable mods.. The game started fine, I just didn't see any effect or UI (not sure if this has a UI though). Now that my install has stabilized I thought I'd check in and see if others were able to use it.

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30 minutes ago, Nightside said:

Has anyone got this working in 1.3? I tried it early on and it didn't seem to load at all but wasn't sure if it was related to this or other potentially unstable mods.. The game started fine, I just didn't see any effect or UI (not sure if this has a UI though). Now that my install has stabilized I thought I'd check in and see if others were able to use it.

I've recompiled for 1.3, I'm just doing a test to see if it actually works. So far so good.

It probably won't work in 1.3 as is, as the Settings Menu got broken, but you can check your log for lines starting with UPFM to see if it's working.

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Played around with UPFM today and enjoyed it. Seems to be working for the most part in 1.3. I posted an issue with the Generation count duplicating in the part menu. 

https://github.com/severedsolo/UPFM/issues/3

Also, It seemed like once I had a part failure, then recovered the vessel, all subsequent vessels launched with the same part would still have the same failure (no electric charge in my case). As far as I can tell, I cannot junk parts with Scrapyard so the broken part just keeps being used on my new vessels.

Once a part suffers a failure it seems to me that it should either be unrecoverable for Scrapyard, or should it be repaired to new condition. Otherwise, I should be able to destroy a single offending part in Scrapyard so it doesn't keep coming back (maybe possible and I just missed how to do this).

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2 minutes ago, Nightside said:

Once a part suffers a failure it seems to me that it should either be unrecoverable for Scrapyard, or should it be repaired to new condition. Otherwise, I should be able to destroy a single offending part in Scrapyard so it doesn't keep coming back (maybe possible and I just missed how to do this).

That is what is supposed to happen. A broken part should be junked if it's got a high enough failure rate. It may need some tweaking though.

You can also sell parts back to SY by dragging the offending part onto the SY Icon (you'd probably have to apply the inventory first)

Edited by severedsolo

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1 minute ago, severedsolo said:

That is what is supposed to happen. A broken part should be junked if it's got a high enough failure rate. It may need some tweaking though.

You can also sell parts back to SY by dragging the offending part onto the SY Icon (you'd probably have to apply the inventory first)

Ok great, I didn't know that about the SY icon, that makes sense. Is there any way to see the failure rate of a part before I build with it?

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Just now, Nightside said:

Is there any way to see the failure rate of a part before I build with it?

Not yet. It's indirectly linked to the issue you raised on Github. The labels are a bit out of whack, thats next on the list of things to sort.

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Does the "first flight" refer to the first flight of a specific part(that specific inventory) or the first flight of a part of a type?

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Just now, dlrk said:

Does the "first flight" refer to the first flight of a specific part(that specific inventory) or the first flight of a part of a type?

Both.

This will get clearer once I get the failure rates showing in the GUI, but it works like this:

So let's say you've just researched an engine, and never used it before on any build in that save.

The very first time you put that engine on a rocket, that engine has a 50% chance of failing. If it survives the flight, and you then use SY to apply the inventory next time, the failure rate is then determined by how many times it's been recovered (without going into the math, basically flight 2 is 25% failure rate).

However, if you DONT use the inventory, and build a fresh engine of that type, because it's a newer "generation" - the initial failure rate is much lower (it happens to be 25% again for the first flight). If that one survives it's initial flight, then the next flight of that particular engine will only have a 12.5% failure rate(I think - don't have the math in front of me).

So to sum up: Every part is most reliable on it's second flight, but each "new build" will be more reliable than the last.

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9 hours ago, Nightside said:

Also, It seemed like once I had a part failure, then recovered the vessel, all subsequent vessels launched with the same part would still have the same failure (no electric charge in my case)

I think I've fixed this. I was telling KSP to save the willFail flag but not saving the failure time, so they were failing immediately every time. Fixed for next release (I hope).

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New Beta: BETA 4 Available

  • Replaced "Generation" in the UI with Failure Rates instead.
  • Added ability to see Failure Rates in the Editor.
  • (Hopefully) fixed issue where failures would persist across reverts
  • Added dummy method to mark a part as unrecoverable (note that this doesn't do anything yet)

Note: - If KSP Auto-loads your vessel when you enter the Editor, failure rates will probably be wrong. Click the SY button to update them.

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Hotfix for Beta 4: 0.4.1 Released.

  • Fixed issue where failure rate would reduce every time vessel was loaded/rolled out.
  • Fixed issue where parts would be marked as unrecoverable if player switches away from vessel.
  • Fixed Editor Failure Rates being wrong.
  • Added button to mark a part as unrecoverable in the Flight Scene.
Edited by severedsolo

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1 minute ago, PhoenixSpaceIndustries said:

@severedsolo I don't know if you'd be happy with it, but something along the lines of 'Oh Krap' might be suitable for the name? 

Doesn't necessarily bother me, but I feel like I'd be pushing 2.2g with that one (but thanks for the suggestion anyway!)

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