FreeThinker

[1.7.3/1.6.1/1.5.1/1.4.5/1.3.1] KSP Interstellar Extended 1.23.8 Continued Development Thread

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16 hours ago, SciMan said:

So what you're saying is that you need a model for a Gas Core reactor.

I'm always interested in doing reactors :D If no one is working on that one already I'd like to do it.
I'd suggest to use the actual model for the MoltenSaltReactor for the GasCoreReactor and make a new model for the MoltenSaltReactor. Both reaction-chambers require a round(ish) design but the MoltenSaltReactor includes a thermal generator which I'd like to show in the model.

16 hours ago, SciMan said:

Now for something different. I have a suggestion for a new kind of electric thruster, and a new kind of fusion reactor. Both use the same basic physics and reactions, so I don't think I need to explain them individually except where there's an important difference.

It's basically a hybrid of a fusion reactor and ion engine all in one.

If I had to give it a name, I'd call it a "Laser-Initiated Fusion Fragment Reactor".

...

Very interesting. I'd like to know more about the required laser, mostly about the size. I had attempted to make a model for an ICF fusion reactor based on the National Ignition Facility but a problem is the gigantic size of the laser . The spherical ReactionChamber is located in the bottom right corner and the rest is just Laser-amplifier-stuff.
Since the suggested approach uses a very short, high contrast pulse, it must be generated locally. So the laser needs to be included.

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1 hour ago, Eleusis La Arwall said:

I'm always interested in doing reactors :D If no one is working on that one already I'd like to do it.
I'd suggest to use the actual model for the MoltenSaltReactor for the GasCoreReactor and make a new model for the MoltenSaltReactor. Both reaction-chambers require a round(ish) design but the MoltenSaltReactor includes a thermal generator which I'd like to show in the model.

Preferably, I would like to keep it modular (so no integrated thermal generator) because it allows more options (like fuel enrichment or propulsion only). The existing model for the Molten salt reacor is fine for it current purpose (it is also the most well known model), what we need for the Open Cycle Gas Core reactor would be a reactor that looked more like the Magnetised Target fusion reactor, with an oversized perfect spherical core.

Edited by FreeThinker

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2 hours ago, Eleusis La Arwall said:

 I'd like to know more about the required laser, mostly about the size. I had attempted to make a model for an ICF fusion reactor based on the National Ignition Facility but a problem is the gigantic size of the laser .

After spending more than 3 billion the NIF method is still not working, which is a shame. Besides the huge size, the worst part of NIF is they have no been able to reach ignition. Perhaps in the future they have more luck using a different technique. Still the best thing that has come out of it is the development of very powerfull lasers, which can be used for many other usefull applications.

Edited by FreeThinker

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On 11/16/2016 at 4:11 AM, FreeThinker said:

Well the fact is that any heat exchanger is limited to the maximum melting tempertures. The only method of achieving higher temperures is to use either plasma nozzles (which confine the plasma ions with magnetic coils) or magnetic nozzles which divert charged particles directly.

apologies but I'm not sure I'm understanding your response within the context of the question that I asked; what I'm observing is that the thermal ramjet nozzle and thermal turbojet have about the same ISP on hydrazine now with the antimatter reactor... the ramjet nozzle used to have far higher isp and lower thrust than the turbojet back in 1.1.3; this is correct behavior now?  I don't see a compelling reason to use the ramjet nozzle at all anymore, and i'm now missing a high-isp/reasonable-thrust propulsion system now... i pretty much used these ramjet nozzles with hydrazine + antimatter to power *everything* as I could, with enough engines, get 40-60k dV and 2G+ thrust on a 2000+ ton craft with them.  This is no longer possible?

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At least with thermal launch nozzle, ramjet nozzle and thermal turbojet, max Isp it limited to 3000s (which is actually realy high)  To get higher Isp from thermal power you need to use the plasma nozzle, which will even work in the atmosphere when connected with the antimatter reactor. The Ramjet is mend for high speed atmospheric operation, in the upper atmosphere  It Isp will actually be higher than in the lower atmosphere where the turbojet will perform better.

The main justification comes from the Atomic rocket Antimattrer engine list

Edited by FreeThinker

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Heyas Interstellars,

got a question. I put a BF UV laser in the sky connected to a Multi Bandwidth Rectenna Dish Transceiver, setting to transmit far ultraviolet. When I put a craft with another dish in the neighborhood, it can receive the power fine. Now for setting up a relay network. I put three pivoted light mirrors around Kerbin with the same orbital period as the laser, activated the relays (not the solar panels), it says relay active. But on said craft, and at the laser, it says relays active 0/3. And I cannot receive power when not in LOS with the laser.

Is there anything I need to do to make the mirrors work, point them at something, do something with the solar panel settings (why are there two 'extend solar panels' buttons, btw), or something else?

Maybe the assumption I can use UV light power to set up a network around Kerbin is wrong, I can only use microwave to do that?

 

EDIT: Golly, that is weird, when I put the final receiving crafts dish on Microwave it starts receiving power and it says it is connected through a relay. But it is only 20 MW (there is much more available from the laser) and I am not even sending Microwave. Am I missing something crucial or is something broken? I have been using the connection scheme picture you posted, @FreeThinker, to try and understand how this all works.

Edited by DrScarlett

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6 hours ago, DrScarlett said:

Is there anything I need to do to make the mirrors work, point them at something, do something with the solar panel settings (why are there two 'extend solar panels' buttons, btw), or something else?

Nope, they should work as long as there is a line of sight between them. I intend to add improved interface which list all possible connections. I suspect there is a bug somewhere.

6 hours ago, DrScarlett said:

EDIT: Golly, that is weird, when I put the final receiving crafts dish on Microwave it starts receiving power and it says it is connected through a relay. But it is only 20 MW (there is much more available from the laser) and I am not even sending Microwave. Am I missing something crucial or is something broken? I have been using the connection scheme picture you posted, @FreeThinker, to try and understand how this all works.

I need a little more information like at what wavelength is the transmitter sending and how much power and what are the distances between the mirrors. Possible somewhere something goes wrong ...

Oh, do note that if the receiver can only receive in MIcrowave, the whole relay network will work at that wavelenth, which will result in a lot of loss..

 

Edited by FreeThinker

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OK thank you for that. Let me see what I can list.

I unlocked far UV bandwidth for the dish receivers, I am both sending and receiving in this spectrum. The transmitter says it is transmitting at min. 1E-07 and at max. 3.5E-07 wavelength. The free electron laser is upgraded once in size and is connected to a huge MC Stellalar fusion reactor. The FEL mode is ON on this laser (I do not really know what that means, it doesn't seem to make a difference for the power put into the beamed network). The power available is 138 MW, and it is putting out a beamed network of 122 MW. It is using the larger dish. The next door vessel has the smaller dish, and can pick up 55 MW of the network.

The mirrors and the transmitter are in a 1500 KM orbit. They are not quite evenly spaced (yet), but if they were that would mean they would be about 2121 KM apart.

Let me know if there are any files I can provide. For now here is an image.

Beamed%20Laser%20power.jpg

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@DrScarlett Did you notice the Power To beam effieincy is only 10%? This is actualy much lower than intended (it should have been 40%). It is causing a large part of the power to be lost (90%) . combine thi with receival losses (about 70%) and you might end up with with a very low number.

 

Because the distance you are attmpting to transmit isn't that high, I suggest a longer wavelength

Edited by FreeThinker

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4 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Did you notice the Power To beam effieincy is only 10%?

Any idea why? Still it tells me it is putting most of my power into the beamed network 121 of the 138 MW. Also at the next door vessel receiver it tells me it sees a network of 121 MW, and it can pick up 55 of those. So I cannot see this 90% reduction anywhere. And is there any relation to the relays not functioning?

7 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Because the distance you are attmpting to transmit isn't that high, I suggest a longer wavelength

So go to visible light or infrared?

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9 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

The trick is to match the spotsize with receiver diameter.

Could you maybe tell me a little bit more on how to do this, please? I am very willing to experiment, but every little bit of basic understanding would be of tremendous help.

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Spot size = distance-to-spot * wavelength / (aperture diameter)

Edit:

for Example: your Aperture is 20m, distance to spot is 1500 KM, wavelength = Red Light (7.0e-7)

Spotsize = 1500,000m * 0.0000007m / 20m = 0.0525 m

 

Edited by FreeThinker

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What can I vary in practice? Ca I pick a specific numerical wavelength? Can I vary the aperture of the transmitter? Or do I calculate the spot size and see which bandwidth has the best chance of providing a match?

Edited by DrScarlett

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32 minutes ago, DrScarlett said:

What can I vary in practice? Ca I pick a specific numerical wavelength? Can I vary the aperture of the transmitter? Or do I calculate the spot size and see which bandwidth has the best chance of providing a match?

The free electron laser can currently only varry between 7.0e-7  and 1.3e -8 and mend for long range transmission But don't overestimate it,

for example minimum distance Earth - Mars is 54.6 million kilometers

The spot size at this distance would be 54,600,000,000,000 m * 1.3e -8 m / 20 m = 35.49 m

The farthest apart they can be is about 401 million km.

The spot size at this distance would be 401000000000 m * 1.3e -8 m / 20 m = 260.65m

Fortunatly in KSP, the distance are only about 1/10, so you should be able to beam power to eve and duna :)

Edited by FreeThinker

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OK understand, thank you!

so 35 meters, and that would ideally then be the size of your dish on the other side. Makes sense. 

In te way I have it set up now it is 2121000*0,0000002/20=0.02121. Just over two centimeters - waaay to focused for the dish I have. I get it :)

When I am dealing with relays, do I need to match the spot size with the dish size of the nearest mirrors? (And mirrors cannot focus, so I guess I will also be dealing with diffusion drop-off when I bounce from mirror to mirror...)

Edited by DrScarlett

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5 minutes ago, DrScarlett said:

OK understand, thank you!

so 35 meters, and that would ideally then be the size of your dish on the other side. Makes sense. 

When I am dealing with relays, do I need to match the spot size with the dish size of the nearest mirrors?

Relay mirrors/lences are like a high efficient receiver and transmitter in one, but this isn't currently properly calculated yet, but I intend to do this as well. They currently lower the distance between transmitter and sender. So you could for instance get a better ceceival at mercurry by making usage uf a mirror relay a venus. Do not that if there is a direct line of sight between transmitter and receiver, it will always prefer this (which might not be the most optimal).

Edited by FreeThinker

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Aaahhh so that is what was meant with te remark in this topic about relay rectennas. If it is just mirrors, there will be diffusion, but if there is an actual transmitter built in that has lenses and stuff, you could refocus the beam to fit the next node in your network. You mentioned lenses - no lenses in the current relay mirrors.

Again, thank you very much for the explanations! Very very helpful, appreciate it!

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10 minutes ago, DrScarlett said:

You mentioned lenses - no lenses in the current relay mirrors.

Well The current mirrors are not real mirror and kind of cheat and behave like lenses when relaying power when the light corner is small enough.  For now that is good enough. I intended to make it more realistic after I get acces to bigger mirror and lenses.

Edited by FreeThinker

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20 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Preferably, I would like to keep it modular (so no integrated thermal generator) because it allows more options (like fuel enrichment or propulsion only). The existing model for the Molten salt reacor is fine for it current purpose (it is also the most well known model), what we need for the Open Cycle Gas Core reactor would be a reactor that looked more like the Magnetised Target fusion reactor, with an oversized perfect spherical core.

Perfect, a modular MoltenSaltReactor is even better :) What about the CollidingBeamReactor, will the generator remain included?

Made a concept for the Gas Core Reactor around a perfect sphere:
Q5Nosnp.png
2.5 m in diameter, 3 m total height.

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Ooooww - so i need to be concerned about the reception angle as well... do I also need to be concerned about the re-transmition angle towards the next target? (If that is the case, I would need to be very careful with the positioning of mirror nodes, make some kind of star shaped system where there is always a next mirror available in the angle I can re-transmit the beam to, while always staying properly angled towards my transmitter.)

 

However, i just looked at the wavelengths of the laser. The longest is red, 0.0000007 m. That would give me a spot size of 7.4 cm, lol. So this laser is absolutely not suitable for setting up a network around Kerbin. Generally a network that covers a certain SOI would be difficult (see above), it is more suitable for direct lines of power transport. Man, I am starting to understand.

Edited by DrScarlett

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18 minutes ago, DrScarlett said:

Ooooww - so i need to be concerned about the reception angle as well... do I also need to be concerned about the re-transmition angle towards the next target?

No, only receival angle matters. Some receiver parts are more flexible in this than other. The least flexibible are the huge fixed dishes, like the 100 m thermal receivers. you realy need to keep them aimed in the direction of the transmitter/relay or you won't get any signal. Parts that can pivot have a much better angle at which they can receive. All parts have their advantage/disadvantages, smaller parts tend to more flexable or lighter  but have limited range, large parts are less flexable or heavier

Edited by FreeThinker

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I have seen videos of people setting up a relay system around Kerbin with microwave. Never tried it myself, looks like I need to drop the laser and move to microwave. 

Does that mean the receivers in the microwave technology line are the most 'forgiving' where reception angle is concerned? Or is microwave much less focused by the transmitter, just beamed around in all directions, and the reception angle is less relevant? 

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23 minutes ago, Eleusis La Arwall said:

Perfect, a modular MoltenSaltReactor is even better :) What about the CollidingBeamReactor, will the generator remain included?

Made a concept for the Gas Core Reactor around a perfect sphere:
Q5Nosnp.png
2.5 m in diameter, 3 m total height.

Great sphere, but what do those stumbs represent?

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15 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Great sphere, but what do those stumbs represent?

Nothing in particular. It's more a space-filler - just the round sphere looked a little boring :D I use these quite often and sometimes I like to see them as kind of pumps. In this case maybe for the coolant and/or the propellant if used as engine. Maybe retaining bolts but they are a bit too big.
I'm thankfull for any input!

Edited by Eleusis La Arwall
spelling

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