FreeThinker

[1.8.1, 1.7.3/1.6.1/1.5.1/1.4.5] KSP Interstellar Extended 1.25 Continued Development Thread

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16 hours ago, Titan 3001 said:

Also if you are up for a challenge you could implement a third option which atomic rockets calls Dual Mode, here is what Atomic Rockets says about each mode:

 

This is technically already partially implemented, but not as separate engine mode but as a property of a fuel mode. Specifically, Lithium has the property of being able to absorb neutrons directly, producing tritium. The superheated lithium could technically be used for direct thrust, creating a kind of open cycle cooling. It would work best in Tritium-Deuterium fusion mode, but high neutronic fusion was removed from the discovery to save mass.  So yes, duel mode is possible but not ideal in combination with the Discovery fusion engine.

Edited by FreeThinker

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4 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

Might I suggest if we're going to use stock heat radiation that it apply to all radiators as well so that all radiators are stock radiators. Heat is heat.

2

This should already be the case, if not notify me which are not.

15 hours ago, whitespacekilla said:

You can also just break the realism by shutting the engine down and not suffer this effect at all.

 

I think we can counter this by making the shutdown button and action group inactive while not fully spinned down.

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17 hours ago, Titan 3001 said:

A cool concept that deserves a place in KSPI extended is the Nuclear Thermal Turbo Rocket. This mode for both the Thermal turbojet and Ramjet nozzles would function on the idea of heating a fuel (like liquid hydrogen) in the reactor which would then be mixed with intake air (not atmospheric intake because the hydrogen has to combust with oxygen) and would combine with the oxygen in the air and heat it which would be the propellant. This would have the unique function of producing a fairly high thrust and ISP on the launchpad. It would reduce the amount of reaction mass used in the beginning of the launch to, at most, 16% of what is coming out the nozzle. Once it is out of most of the atmosphere then it could switch to NTR mode. Here is link to the presentation.

3

This is indeed a very cool concept. From my point of view its a form of LFO mode (Liquid Fuel with Oxygen afterburner) where Oxidiser/ Liquid  Oxygen is replaced by IntakeAir. The ratio of Fuel to Oxidiser, of course, has to change as intake air only contains 1/5 of the oxygen. This would reduce the overall Isp significantly but since the majority would consist of atmosphere, the fuel usage would be relatively low (comparable with pure Hydrogen mode without atmospheric losses).

Edited by FreeThinker

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2 hours ago, SpaceMouse said:

I can't use buckyballs with my VASIMR and that makes me a little sad. :D Otherwise it's a useful fuel.

Buckyballs can be ionised with an electron gun, not microwaved into a plasma

Edited by FreeThinker

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Just now, FreeThinker said:

Buckyballs can be ionised with an electron gun, no microwaved into a plasma

Yeah, figured it was something like that. FFR propellant maybe? :D

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1 hour ago, SpaceMouse said:

Yeah, figured it was something like that. FFR propellant maybe? :D

Try Ion Engine or Plasma Wakefield Accelerator Engine

Edited by FreeThinker

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1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Buckyballs can be ionised with an electron gun, no microwaved into a plasma

They can eventually be heated into plasma, as can anything.  It's just not an effective use of them as they are incredibly stable and thus have very high temperatures.  There are far better materials to do this to. 

I'm not sure if they are resonant enough to any microwave band to use microwave radiation for this purpose or if other heating methods would be necessary.  In theory, if heated enough under pressure their carbon bonds would break down and convert into pure carbon plasma.  This could theoretically be done on the output shaft of a mass driver device for a secondary expansion engine, but it would take a lot of energy for little game.

Still, they are one of the few materials that can be highly ionized or be given heavy ionic bias in their solid state.  This gives them the ability to be used in an ion drive without being turned to plasma.  This gives all sorts of trade-offs because it is a zero-expansion ionic mass driver engine.

Edited by Ruedii
moar info / Spill check

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28 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Try Plasma Wakefield Accelerator Engine

If it wasn't for the relatively low delta V they could almost generate 'gravity' through thrust in the MPD. Could probably get off of smaller worlds just fine.

Edited by SpaceMouse

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56 minutes ago, SpaceMouse said:

If it wasn't for the relatively low delta V they could almost generate 'gravity' through thrust in the MPD. Could probably get off of smaller worlds just fine. 

Magnetic Plasma Deflection was how I always thought impulse drive would work on Star Trek.   (They are never clear on it, but they imply it's a function of the deflector field, which would imply either magnetic plasma deflection, magnetic trace-mater deflection, or both.  Most likely both.)  The deflector shields in star-trek are the secondary weaker shields that are used to deflect common stray matter and radiation around the ship.  They also prevent several of the nasty effects of FTL travel where light and other light speed particles build up on the nose of the ship.  It would make sense that such technology would be usable for base propulsion.

I never thought we were so close to such technology, though.

 

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2 minutes ago, Ruedii said:

Magnetic Plasma Deflection was how I always thought impulse drive would work on Star Trek.   (They are never clear on it, but they imply it's a function of the deflector field, which would imply either magnetic plasma deflection, magnetic trace-mater deflection, or both.  Most likely both.)  The deflector shields in star-trek are the secondary weaker shields that are used to deflect common stray matter and radiation around the ship.  They also prevent several of the nasty effects of FTL travel where light and other light speed particles build up on the nose of the ship.  It would make sense that such technology would be usable for base propulsion.

I never thought we were so close to such technology, though.

 

You can skip reentry using magnetic scoop too.

Getting out from planet is harder part.

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3 minutes ago, Ruedii said:

Magnetic Plasma Deflection was how I always thought impulse drive would work on Star Trek.   (They are never clear on it, but they imply it's a function of the deflector field, which would imply either magnetic plasma deflection, magnetic trace-mater deflection, or both.  Most likely both.)  The deflector shields in star-trek are the secondary weaker shields that are used to deflect common stray matter and radiation around the ship.  They also prevent several of the nasty effects of FTL travel where light and other light speed particles build up on the nose of the ship.  It would make sense that such technology would be usable for base propulsion.

I never thought we were so close to such technology, though.

 

I'm a huge Trek nerd and have had some recent conversations about this. Impulse is supposedly a reaction-less drive that's just driven by the impulse fusion reactors. The impulse grills are basically radiators.

That doesn't have much to do with MPD's or wakefield accelerators though. :)

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7 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

I think the problem here is a mismatch between thermal management tech level and thermal receiver power. For the next release, I will reduce engine heat production to half and make the maximum temperature of the thermal nozzle static.

To emphasize, this appears to be a stock heat issue. Disregard if that's what you mean. The waste heat levels barely get touched before the engine explodes.

6 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

This should already be the case, if not notify me which are not.

I think we can counter this by making the shutdown button and action group inactive while not fully spinned down.

It appears all the graphene ones and even the tangential attachable grill radiators designed to use airflow are not appearing to take on or reduce stock heat at any significant rate. See 55 minute mark. This happens with all thermal engine designs at different rates.

For your assistance FT:
 

There is a point in there I get up the KSPIE views while the engines are revving. Thermal receiver barely takes on any power before detonating.

 


 

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

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9 hours ago, SpaceMouse said:

This does give the idea to make the Mach drive leveled, making it gradually have higher maximum thrust over time

Edited by FreeThinker

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Download Version 1.20.1 for Kerbal Space Program 1.4.5 from here

Released on 2018-09-26

  • Compiled against KSP 1.4.5
  • Added matched Temperature color with radiator color
  • Linked maximum radiator temperature with maximum operational temperature
  • Added 50% Reduction of Wasteheat and Engine heating when Cryogenic Fuels are used in Thermal Nozzles
  • Added new LFO mode Liquid Hydrogen / Intake Air (unlocked with Specialized Fuel Storage)
  • Added Liquid Carbon Monoxide, Liquid Neon, Liquid Krypton and Liquid Xenon as Thermal Propellants
  • Added Apply Radiator wasteheat convection bonus to part stock convection bonus
  • Balance: Removed or lowered tech requirement of many Thermal Fuel
  • Balance: increased effect of atmosphere on graphene radiators
  • Balance : Made Thermal LiquidFuel thrust equal to Hydrogen thrust (but with 80% lower isp)
  • Balance : Made thrust LiquidFuel/Oxidizer mode equal to Hydrolox fuel mode (but with 80% lower isp)
  • Balance: Prohibit thermal engine shutdown of engine while throttle isn't cut
  • Fixed variable maximum temperature of Thermal Nozzle
  • Fixed hidden parts filter
  • Fixed ability to use D-T fusion mode
  • Fixed negative cost Bosh Einstein antiproton containers
  • Fixed description of some engines
  • Fixed maximum efficiency on Tri Alpha

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a couple issues.. when you research with a computer core ai and you collect the data. the value is +0 and worth nothing.

also the science lab holds 3 kerbals, but you can only see 2 inside. i dunno if that 3rd one is doing anything beneficial?

 

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5 hours ago, aaronsta1 said:

also the science lab holds 3 kerbals, but you can only see 2 inside. i dunno if that 3rd one is doing anything beneficial?

 
3

If the research going faster with an additional kerbal, it does

Edited by FreeThinker

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@raxo2222

I wonder if you think the atmospheric effect on graphene radiator and heatcolor fits your expectations

Edited by FreeThinker

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On 9/24/2018 at 9:18 PM, Titan 3001 said:

@FreeThinker

A cool concept that deserves a place in KSPI extended is the Nuclear Thermal Turbo Rocket. This mode for both the Thermal turbojet and Ramjet nozzles would function on the idea of heating a fuel (like liquid hydrogen) in the reactor which would then be mixed with intake air (not atmospheric intake because the hydrogen has to combust with oxygen) and would combine with the oxygen in the air and heat it which would be the propellant. This would have the unique function of producing a fairly high thrust and ISP on the launchpad. It would reduce the amount of reaction mass used in the beginning of the launch to, at most, 16% of what is coming out the nozzle. Once it is out of most of the atmosphere then it could switch to NTR mode. Here is link to the presentation.

like to hear back from you.

3

I have implemented it now as LFO mode on the thermal nozzle. Let me know what you think of it.

6 hours ago, aaronsta1 said:

a couple issues.. when you research with a computer core ai and you collect the data. the value is +0 and worth nothing.

 

I guess I should simply remove this broken feature, it is pretty much replaced by the stock research lab.

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36 minutes ago, raxo2222 said:

Radiator is bit too dark.

It should stop being black at 700 - 800 K.

I screenshot it as it gets hotter.

https://imgur.com/a/AcbAmZ5

I used the draper point (at 798 K) as the start that temperature starts to become visible, from that intensity scales linear with temperature. Temperature color is constructed from 3 carefully crafted animation curves (before it was a formula). My guess is that intensity does start to become visible after a minimum value. I will add a little offset to make it appear earlier (at 700 K instead of 798K).

Notice that intensity, in reality, should  grow exponential instead of linearly

CNX_UPhysics_39_01_BBradcurve.jpg

Edited by FreeThinker

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46 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

I used the draper point (at 798 K) as the start that temperature starts to become visible, from that intensity scales linear with temperature. Temperature color is constructed from 3 carefully crafted animation curves (before it was a formula). My guess is that intensity does start to become visible after a minimum value. I will add a little offset to make it appear earlier (at 700 K instead of 798K).

Notice that intensity, in reality, should  grow exponential instead of linearly

CNX_UPhysics_39_01_BBradcurve.jpg

Colors are bit dull if you noticed in my screenshots.

As for atmospheric performance of radiators it is pretty realistic now.

I would raise dynamic pressure factor to 0.2 or 0.25 though - isn't possible to use angle of attack of ship or each radiator independently here?

Edited by raxo2222

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1 hour ago, raxo2222 said:

As for atmospheric performance of radiators it is pretty realistic now.

I would raise dynamic pressure factor to 0.2 or 0.25 though - isn't possible to use angle of attack of ship or each radiator independently here?

4

I will change it from 0.1 to 0.2. I probably could base it on the angle of attack but it would be tricky as there are multiple types of radiators.

Edited by FreeThinker

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2 hours ago, raxo2222 said:
 

hey, just wondering, where does the text "maxOperationalTemp" come from?

Edit: It appears to be part of Deadly reentry, not sure what they do but it doesn't look good for radiators

Edit2: It appears I'm right and Deadly reentry updates these values based on maximum temperatures when lower, but KSPIE changes them when flying through the atmosphere, but when flying out of the atmosphere, these values, stick causing it to degrade once temperature increase above these values

Edited by FreeThinker

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