FreeThinker

[1.8.1, 1.7.3/1.6.1/1.5.1/1.4.5/1.3.1] KSP Interstellar Extended 1.24.3 Continued Development Thread

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Info may be a bit out of date ;) it's rock solid even at extreme speeds, and has a proximity bit that will drop you out of warp if you get too close to an SOI (like, I dunno, warping into the sun :D)

Well it still allows you to fly into the moon, not sure if that was a feature or a failed safety system that made that possible. :D

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I think that there might be a mis-understanding of negative matter.

These were *exactly* my thoughts about Exotic Matter. But FreeThinker is quoting a source that disagrees with our assumptions. So, if that source checks out, then it appears we were both wrong...

I checked out the article - the magnetic containment is stated in reference to antimatter. The claim that negative and positive mass 'cancel each other out' does not quite make sense - there might be either a misunderstanding on part of the author, or maybe a badly worded statement. I am basing off of an extensive work on the subject that I checked out of my library and read a few months ago (their website is down right now, I will try to access my history and find the title and author when it returns). To say that they cancel out is like saying that putting a mountain next to a pit cancels out all elevation - if you super-imposed them (ignoring pauli exclusion, for one) and they had equal (absolute values) amounts of mass, then the net gravitational force would be 0. if you just put some (-) mass next to some (+) mass, they would merely interact normally, albeit oddly, as discussed in my previous post.

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Info may be a bit out of date ;) it's rock solid even at extreme speeds, and has a proximity bit that will drop you out of warp if you get too close to an SOI (like, I dunno, warping into the sun :D)

RoverDude, Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your mods very much and your way to work. I used sometimes the Interstellar Warp Drive to reach other stars, like Kopernicus Tech mod allows to do. Just a few weeks ago, I tried your Warp Drive for a rescue mission in the SOI of Eve. First, it wasn't so clear how to activate the Warp Drive. When I finally was able to make it work, I found myself falling in the Sun, too near to escape... Maybe it was my fault, but until uses Warp Drive not to just reach Jool or Eloo, for achieve to fly to other stars, Interstellar WarpDrive is the only way allowed from KSP, and Interstellar Warp Drive is the only one that work properly...

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I notice that in the tweakscale cfg, a number of nodes have a '.2' floating by itself, as follows (for example):

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS

{

name = InterstellarFissionPBDPsmall

radius = 1

PowerOutput = 3
.2

upgradedPowerOutput = 3
.2

partMass = 2.5
}

is that a typo?

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RoverDude, Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your mods very much and your way to work. I used sometimes the Interstellar Warp Drive to reach other stars, like Kopernicus Tech mod allows to do. Just a few weeks ago, I tried your Warp Drive for a rescue mission in the SOI of Eve. First, it wasn't so clear how to activate the Warp Drive. When I finally was able to make it work, I found myself falling in the Sun, too near to escape... Maybe it was my fault, but until uses Warp Drive not to just reach Jool or Eloo, for achieve to fly to other stars, Interstellar WarpDrive is the only way allowed from KSP, and Interstellar Warp Drive is the only one that work properly...

Sorry, that just does not make sense. You are confusing pilot error with 'does not work properly'. and no, the KSPI drive is not the 'only way allowed' in KSP :P

I'm totally cool with people having differing opinions or preferences or whatever. I'm a lot less cool with misinformation being framed as fact.

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Sorry for the mistakes, as I said, probably I was wrong with something. What other way are allowed to reach other stars in a reasonable time?

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I notice that in the tweakscale cfg, a number of nodes have a '.2' floating by itself, as follows (for example):

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS

{

name = InterstellarFissionPBDPsmall

radius = 1

PowerOutput = 3
.2

upgradedPowerOutput = 3
.2

partMass = 2.5
}

is that a typo?

Look like a editor save fault, the numbers must have fallen down ;)

Good find!! :D

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Sorry for the mistakes, as I said, probably I was wrong with something. What other way are allowed to reach other stars in a reasonable time?

Not sure on the max speed of the original KSPI drive, the USI one can go over 15c (I seem to recall KSPI scales c down by an order of magnitude, so 150c in KSPI terms if that is still the case), and that's configurable. I'm from Kerbin to Jool in a matter of seconds, so I guess it depends on which planet mod you are using.

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Not sure on the max speed of the original KSPI drive, the USI one can go over 15c (I seem to recall KSPI scales c down by an order of magnitude, so 150c in KSPI terms if that is still the case), and that's configurable. I'm from Kerbin to Jool in a matter of seconds, so I guess it depends on which planet mod you are using.

From what I recall warp 10 is about light speed

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Look like a editor save fault, the numbers must have fallen down ;)

Good find!! :D

Thanks, I installed the newest tweakscale (1.152), which broke my save, and I was looking for possible conflicts with older tweakscale cfgs. In the end, it seems to either break saves when installed over 1.151, or the realfuels tweakscale interaction thing is VERY made-broken by the update (based on what dlls were error-spamming).

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I notice that in the tweakscale cfg, a number of nodes have a '.2' floating by itself, as follows (for example):

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS

{

name = InterstellarFissionPBDPsmall

radius = 1

PowerOutput = 3
.2

upgradedPowerOutput = 3
.2

partMass = 2.5
}

is that a typo?

Weird, it isn't in the currently version. In what version was this come from?

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erm... the one i downloaded from kerbalstuff.

the file named "Interstellat_Tweakscale.cfg"

most recent version.

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erm... the one i downloaded from kerbalstuff.

the file named "Interstellat_Tweakscale.cfg"

most recent version.

Weird, is seems to depend on the editor, I'm using NotePad++ and NotePad,when I fix it in one version I get weird effect in the other editor

Edit: alright, I fixed the problem, will update in a minute. This text file was somehow corrupted ...

Edit2: Anyway, the new download is available at KerbalStuff

Edited by FreeThinker
https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/508/KSPI%200.90%20Extended%20Configuration

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Looking through the configs for 0.7.18, just so I get this straight:

  • If I have only KSPI, I get no WarpDrive at all any more. (Since it can't load the USI models defined in the new part.cfgs)
  • If I have KSPI and USI WarpDrive and not NFT-E, I get the KSPI WarDrive but not the USI WarpDrive.
  • If I have KSPI and USI WarpDrive and NFT-E, I get both WarpDrives but with wildly different requirements (GW vs EC)

(assuming CTT as TechTree of course.)

Correct?

It was,

In KSPI Extended 0.7.20 you now have the following behavior:

  • If you have only KSPI installed (and no USI WarpDrive) you will have access to the MegaWatt Classic Warpdrive
  • If you have both KSPI and USI WarpDrive you will have access to GigaWatt Extended Warpdrive
  • If you have USI WarpDrive and NFT-E installed you will access to KiloWatt USI WarpDrive

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It was,

In KSPI Extended 0.7.20 you now have the following behavior:

  • If you have only KSPI installed (and no USI WarpDrive) you will have access to the MegaWatt Classic Warpdrive
  • If you have both KSPI and USI WarpDrive you will have access to GigaWatt Extended Warpdrive
  • If you have USI WarpDrive and NFT-E installed you will access to KiloWatt USI WarpDrive

OK, so quick question then- does the USI WarpDrive folder come as a standard part of the KSP-I Extended download, or is it an optional addition?

Speaking of dependencies, the KerbalStuff installation instructions could use some clarification that installing TweakScale is still only optional (as the non-tweakable reactors still exist as legacy parts).

Also, why do the old/legacy reactors use the original performance parameters from Fractal_UK's last release of KSP-Interstellar? (i.e. just 85 MW for a 1.25 meter Particle Bed Reactor) Shouldn't they at least use the last/most updated MW production etc. that I came up with for the different size-classes here?

Regards,

Northstar

Edited by Northstar1989

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Note that I also intend to integrate KSPI Near Future Integration into KSPI Extended. When it detect NFT Electrics, it enters KSPI NFT Mode meaning, all power levels will be scaled down to Near future levels. Effectively this means all reactors produce about 1000 times less power and electric engines require 100.00 less power. This will make KSPI and Near Future technology play nice with each other.

So, KSPI Lite all over again. Another go of the NFT Lobby to bring KSPI quite literally down to their power levels and conservative understanding of science and realism. (*) For once i really would like to see someone creating a fork where NFT (that i use and like for its own merits) is brought UP to KSPI levels. NFT Interstellar... that would be quite nice... not the least for experiencing the outcry of a lot of people that right now have no problems to nerf KSPI wherever possible. :)

Yes i am a bit upset, and since it seems that everybody will still be able to play the way he likes the reaction maybe a bit overboard. But the noticeable intentions here and there to get KSPI (and other mods for that matter) "in line" are something i really dont like.

(*) This excludes of course Nertea, roverdude or others that simply had an own (different) vision for what they want from a mod and created (not modified) something completely new to realize their own vision. I deeply respect this. (**)

(**) But i have to concede that i am a little worried about roverdudes upcoming lifesupport mod ... what segment of KSP will be next on his plan for world domination? An Autopilot? Roverdudes Enviromental Enhancement? REAR as a better version of FAR? :)

Edited by smart013

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@FreeThinker

The following code comes from the config file of the 3.75 meter Thermal Rocket Nozzle (the pre-sized part, not the one relying on TweakScale)


// --- node definitions ---
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.055308 , 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -1.196 , 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2

Did you notice something odd about it?

The config file uses node "size 2" instead of "size 3". This significantly weakens the part's connection to other parts. The code should look like this instead:


// --- node definitions ---
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.055308 , 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -1.196 , 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 3

This isn't the only place where a bigger node-size should be used though. Files like this are sprinkled through the KSP-Interstellar Extended (and the base 0.90 port maintenance thread) parts folder...

EDIT: The 3.75 meter Microwave Beamed Power Receiver (which needs a TweakScale version, by the way), Large Inline ISRU Refinery, 3.75 meter Fission, Fusion, and Antimatter Reactors, and 3.75 meter Electric Generators are also all using "size 2" nodes instead of "size 3" nodes, which would be the appropriate node-size. The Thermal Turbojets and Atmospheric Intakes are also missing a node-size definition altogether (which causes them to default to node "size 1", which is inappropriate for the 2.5 meter versions).

Regards,

Northstar

Edited by Northstar1989

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For once i really would like to see someone creating a fork where NFT (that i use and like for its own merits) is brought UP to KSPI levels. NFT Interstellar... that would be quite nice... not the least for experiencing the outcry of a lot of people that right now have no problems to nerf KSPI wherever possible. :)
Excellent idea. I will add some MM config files which will level NFT Propulsion power requirements to KSPI level. That way both the MegaWatt players as well as the KiloWatt players can play as they want.

- - - Updated - - -

@FreeThinker

The following code comes from the config file of the 3.75 meter Thermal Rocket Nozzle (the pre-sized part, not the one relying on TweakScale)


// --- node definitions ---
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.055308 , 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -1.196 , 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2

Did you notice something odd about it?

The config file uses node "size 2" instead of "size 3". This significantly weakens the part's connection to other parts. The code should look like this instead:

Intresting, so the 2 effect connection strength, good to to know

- - - Updated - - -

OK, so quick question then- does the USI WarpDrive folder come as a standard part of the KSP-I Extended download, or is it an optional addition?

Its optional (see OP), people can download either Regolith or USI WarpDrive. Note that Technically the mod will still function for 99% without any them installed, It's currently only used in the Liquid Nitrogen Tank

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Excellent idea. I will add some MM config files which will level NFT Propulsion power requirements to KSPI level. That way both the MegaWatt players as well as the KiloWatt players can play as they want.

Yeah, I'm not sure what you mean by "MegaWatt players" and "KiloWatt players" in this context, or what that has to do with NearFuture propulsion. The only context this makes sense in is with the Alcubierre Drive variants you were discussing before..

And even while it is possible to (very slowly) generate ExoticMatter with a MW-scale reactor using the original version of the warp drive, and run the Alcubierre Drive off that (which is realistic- even if containment fields are needed, which they may not be if ABZB and my original thoughts were correct), the rate of ExoticMatter generation with such a weak reactor is prohibitively slow. For a manned mission, players need to utilize a GW-scale reactor to generate the ExoticMatter either way.

Gigawatts of electrical power should never be required to actually run an Alcubierre Drive though- the magnetic containment fields for ExoticMatter would not require any more power than those for Antimatter, even if they were necessary... (the high energy-cost of running an Alcubierre Drive you've heard about before is the power-requirement to generate the Exotic Matter in the first place- the actual process of generating a warp bubble once you have plenty of Exotic Matter shouldn't be so energy-intensive that you need GW of power...)

Regards,

Northstar

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Gigawatts of electrical power should never be required to actually run an Alcubierre Drive though- the magnetic containment fields for ExoticMatter would not require any more power than those for Antimatter, even if they were necessary... (the high energy-cost of running an Alcubierre Drive you've heard about before is the power-requirement to generate the Exotic Matter in the first place- the actual process of generating a warp bubble once you have plenty of Exotic Matter shouldn't be so energy-intensive that you need GW of power...)

If you don't want to play with the GigaWatt Warp Engines, that's fine. No one is forcing you. Just dont intall the USI WarpDrive and you can play with the old school Warpdrive. If you don't want that do that either it is cool as well.

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If you don't want to play with the GigaWatt Warp Engines, that's fine. No one is forcing you. Just dont intall the USI WarpDrive and you can play with the old school Warpdrive. If you don't want that do that either it is cool as well.

Just making a realism-point...

Anyways, now that we've take a look at Electric thrusters, thermal thrusters, reactors, node sizes, warp drives, Propulsive Fluid Accumulators, and resource-densities; can we move on to improving the ISRU reaction repertoire?

We still need a way to perform the Sabatier Reaction outside an atmosphere. Or to isolate Oxygen directly from the atmosphere of Duna via Solid Oxide CO2-Electrolysis (SOCE, which is CO2 --> C + O2) or Reverse Water Gas Shift Reaction (CO2 + H2 --> CO + H2O), which is how they would get O2 (for life-support and to burn with Sabatier Reaction methane) in real life on Mars (as the Sabatier Reaction requires a Hydrogen feedstock and produces more Methane than you can burn with the O2 you get out of it...)

It would also be nice if we could have the ISRU refineries produce Hydrazine (N2H4) instead of Monopropellant when "Module RCSFX" (the RealFuels RCS module) is installed, and be able to produce hypergolic propellants like NTO (N2O4) or MMH (Hydrazine with a -CH3 group tacked on to replace one Hydrogen atom) with RealFuels and access to Nitrogen, Oxygen, and Methane...

Every major propellant-combo (HydroLOX, Meth/LOX, Kero/LOX, or hypergolic) can be produced via ISRU on Mars/Duna (Nitrogen is 1.9% of the Martian atmosphere and can be collected locally, or can alternatively be shipped from LEO/LKO Earth/Kerbin Propulsive Fluid Accumulators). Even Kerosene can be produced via ISRU (using the Fischer-Tropsch Cycle: CO + H2 --> CnH2n+2 + H2O) if you have access to Carbon Monoxide (a product of the Reverse Water Gas Shift Reaction, CO2 + H2 --> CO + H2O) and Hydrogen...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited by Northstar1989

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So, KSPI Lite all over again. Another go of the NFT Lobby to bring KSPI quite literally down to their power levels and conservative understanding of science and realism. (*) For once i really would like to see someone creating a fork where NFT (that i use and like for its own merits) is brought UP to KSPI levels. NFT Interstellar... that would be quite nice... not the least for experiencing the outcry of a lot of people that right now have no problems to nerf KSPI wherever possible. :)

Excuse me? What is this lobby you speak of? Last I checked, someone wandered over and wanted to borrow one of my mods (and scale the power UP). I'm curious where this mysterious lobby is. This hostility is completely unwarranted. Because (drum roll for irony) the only mod I am aware of that scales down KSPI is done by FreeThinker, the same person who maintains this mod.

About the only thing any 'lobby' out there gripes about is having some kind of standardization on resource names so we don't repeatedly stomp over eachother, and punish our players. And (another drum roll) both Nertea and I are breaking our mods to hell for 1.0 just so we can accommodate KSPI's request to prefix resources with 'Lqd', etc.

Your hostility is ridiculous and unwarranted.

Yes i am a bit upset, and since it seems that everybody will still be able to play the way he likes the reaction maybe a bit overboard. But the noticeable intentions here and there to get KSPI (and other mods for that matter) "in line" are something i really dont like.

And again... who exactly is advocating this? I sure don't see it. Would it be nice if we could have inter-mod compatible reactors? Of course. But then that's an entirely different dialogue (and a long one). I don't get where this whole 'in line' thing comes in, given it is KSPI asking to borrow MY work, not the other way around.

(*) This excludes of course Nertea, roverdude or others that simply had an own (different) vision for what they want from a mod and created (not modified) something completely new to realize their own vision. I deeply respect this. (**)

Could have fooled me. Contradictory comment in 3... 2... 1...

(**) But i have to concede that i am a little worried about roverdudes upcoming lifesupport mod ... what segment of KSP will be next on his plan for world domination? An Autopilot? Roverdudes Enviromental Enhancement? REAR as a better version of FAR? :)

Every tongue in cheek comment has a grain of truth to it, and that last comment was downright rude. I cannot even begin to imagine how worried you would get if I told you I was looking for a collaborator with a strong nuclear physics background to do a mod consisting of various reactors and NTRs.....

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I was looking for a collaborator with a strong nuclear physics background to do a mod consisting of various reactors and NTRs.....

Really? If you need help in this, I'll be glad to be in, while my nuclear physics background is not so strong, but, btw maybe I can help in some other way.

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@FreeThinker

Hey, just a thought, but I noticed here and there you added yourself as an author on some of the new tweakable-parts like the following:


PART
{
name = DustyPlasma
module = Part
author = AAristisan & Fractal & FreeThinker

I was wondering if you couldn't add me in as an author on some of these parts since I helped come up with the balance (and research on real designs/theory behind the balance) for some of them?

It would be advisable to remove the "&" symbols anyways, as it would make it harder to find such symbols that might be messing up the actual code (where they are now considered readable characters) in the future. So, I suggest something like this instead:


PART
{
name = DustyPlasma
module = Part
author = AAristisan, Fractal, FreeThinker, Northstar1989

Notice that I took the liberty of adding my name to the end of the authors list after yours? :)

Regards,

Northstar

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Following the installation steps for this has broken the prices for buying things with no other mods other than ATM installed. Testing it on a fresh ksp install the 1st command pod you buy costs 12 funds after the recent update.

Unless i've gotten the install completely borked and wrong (Which might be the case.)

Edit: Looks like tweak scale is having a problem with prices. New version? Anyhow when i activate tweak scale prices a borked it seems.

Edited by Nodfire

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