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KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread


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@FreeThinker
Hey, is it normal that the Direct Cycle Nuclear Turbojet says in the description that it has included precooler and intakes but it does not work without external intakes?
I tried to run it without any intakes and it goes automatically into liquid fuel mode and does not change if I try to press next propellant. While with external intakes I can set it to Atm mode changing manually since it does not save from SPH.
One more thing, how do they cross feed the atmospheric fluid? Sometimes, even when going straight, I don't get enough intake and have one engine almost at full while the other goes to half.

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I uploaded a new beta 1.14.15 whiche can be dowbloaded from here

Changelog

* Added extended wrapper cap and nose cone with improve aerodynamic performance

* Improved Part info radiator in VAB

* improved GUI Thermal Calculator in VAB

* Balance Hydrolox mode requires High Performance Fuel Systems instead of Advanced Nuclear Propulsion

* Reduced boiloff intersteller fuel tanks

* fixed  Nuclear/Thermal Turbo/Ramjet ability to function without unlocked technologies

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IMO hard XRay wavelength around 0.1 nm should be added to free electron laser and rectenna. High efficiency, high power XRay FEL are actually more feasible in near future than exotic power generation like antimatter.

Take a look:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1508.04846.pdf

It would improve gameplay and realisticity:

-0.1nm would actually make beamed power for RSS feasible without spot size formula change.

-Solar thermal power mirror receiver is available quite early on, but it is virtually useless without Extreme UV which is available end game. IMO Extreme UV should be available from 4k Science node which would make STPMR useful.

IMO adding 0.1 nm to 10k Science node at 20% wall to beam efficiency, while moving Extreme UV to 4k node would be a very good move to improve KSPIE experience, especially RSS.

Best Regards

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@dankis  Although Generating X-Ray in a free electron laser is certainly possible at high power, the problem is transmitting at long range. It needs to be focused into one direction with a large aperture, and that can only be done by a big diameter dish or multiple synced small dishes. To do that you need to be able to reflect it like a mirror, and that is a problem with a wavelength smaller than atoms, which will go straight through it. Another problem with being on the other end where you need to convert the x-ray bay into power and if you miss and accidentally miss the target you might zap an entire crew as an x-ray laser would effectively be a death ray.

Quote

Unfortunately X-ray and gamma mirrors are impossible to build the way you think - mainly because there is much less interaction with the matter comparing to UV - it will go through all materials commonly used for making mirrors. Even for EUV light (wavelength of 13.5nm) building effective mirrors is a royal pain.

As wavelength of X-Rays is very small (down to 0.01nm) you cannot build dielectric mirrors, as this would require depositing dielectric layers which are less than 1 atom thick.

It is only possible to reflect X-Rays at a very shallow angle (see Kirkpatrick-Baez X-Ray lens design), so you cannot use this for shielding of radiation coming from all directions. Gammas are even worse - the only thing you can do is to bring alot of mass.

Perhaps if we could create some dielectric mirror that can reflect 0.1 nm  x-ray, then it should be possible.

The only known method I know of would be to use a trick currently used in x-ray telescopes

xray_telescope_multimirror_full.jpg

xmm_mirror_full.jpg

The only KSPIE model which might be able to do this would be the DT-L-IR-1 Laser Beam Transmitter

Edited by FreeThinker
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@dankis I looked at the document a bit closer and decided I will allow the FEL to generate .3 nm (Soft X-Ray) laser with Applied High Energy Physics @ 15% ( 25% with Ultra High Energy Physics ) and 0.1 nm (Hard X-Ray) with Ultra High Energy Physics  @ 15% efficiency  All other frequencies will be scaled as well  making them available earlier and at higher efficiencies

Edited by FreeThinker
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56 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

@dankis I looked at the document a bit closer and decided I will allow the FEL to generate (...)

@FreeThinker Great!

After lurking deeper into the issuse, correct me if I am wrong, seems like focusing X-Rays can be done in a very effecient way with small/very small optics. The problem with X-Ray optics in today applications is that due to angle of incidence measured in single or even sub milirads, focal length need to be quite long. In our applications FL is in order of Gm, so small angle of incidence is not a problem. What is more, at very low AOI, efficiency of X-Ray reflection is very high.

3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

(...)if you miss and accidentally miss the target you might zap an entire crew as an x-ray laser would effectively be a death ray.

Missing with almost any very high power beam would most likely end in serious damage to the ship.

Regards

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2 hours ago, dankis said:

Missing with almost any very high power beam would most likely end in serious damage to the ship.

 

well If it hit by late say by gigawatt infrared beam for a second, it would heat up, but not cause major damage, on the other hand a second  a crewed vessel hit by a gigawatt X-ray beam, would pass through the cabin walls, which could kill the crew.

2 hours ago, Stevie_D said:

This is how the death star got started... :)

Perhaps it's an fun idea to add a kill mode, just beam on the target vessel to kill the crew. Might be useful against hostile aliens. Of course, they might do the same thing to you. :0.0:

Edited by FreeThinker
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2 hours ago, dankis said:

@FreeThinker Great!

After lurking deeper into the issuse, correct me if I am wrong, seems like focusing X-Rays can be done in a very effecient way with small/very small optics. The problem with X-Ray optics in today applications is that due to angle of incidence measured in single or even sub milirads, focal length need to be quite long. In our applications FL is in order of Gm, so small angle of incidence is not a problem. What is more, at very low AOI, efficiency of X-Ray reflection is very high

 

5

Sure it is possible, but not with a regular dish transmitter. I planning to create modified version DT-L-IR-1 Laser Beam Transmitter which will be suitable for in X-Ray transmission.

Edited by FreeThinker
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sorry for the spelling, im typing from a computer whit out spell cheker

my M.A. was on making dielectric mirror (vis light not x-rays)
~17 years ago
i remmber reading a paper on the making of an 2D X-ray miror (1 plain of reflection)
and how it can be improved to a 3D lattec to alow full optic like focose for X-ray telescopes

 

Edited by danielboro
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6 minutes ago, danielboro said:

sorry for the spelling, im typing from a computer whit out spell cheker

my M.A. was on making dialectrik merors (vis light not x-rays)
~17 years ago
i remmber reading a paper on the making of an 2D X-ray miror (1 plain of reflection)
and how it can be improved to a 3D lattec to alow full optic like focose for X-ray telescopes

 

Well, any real x-ray transmitter design would be useful. The best so far I could find is x-ray telescope. I figure you can also use it in reverse to create a high aperture x-ray transmitter.

Edited by FreeThinker
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18 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Sure it is possible, but not with a regular dish transmitter. I planning to create modified version DT-L-IR-1 Laser Beam Transmitter which will be suitable for in X-Ray transmission.

@FreeThinker

If we want to keep it realistic, whole FEL with transmitter attached should be movable, not just transmitter. Due to Angle of incidence limitations, you can't aim with just optics without huge loss of efficiency and very long aparature.

My quick solution would be: Take movable base of Diode Infrared Beamed Power Laser model and attach it to bottom of FEL model, then attach head of DT-L-IR-1 Laser Beam Transmitter to our new model. It should yield FEL with integrated transmitter for very short wavelengths. IMO quite good option to add specialized  FEL with integrated transimiter for UV and X-Rays.

Regards

Edited by dankis
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1 hour ago, dankis said:

@FreeThinker

If we want to keep it realistic, whole FEL with transmitter attached should be movable, not just transmitter. Due to Angle of incidence limitations, you can't just aim with optics without huge loss of efficiency and very long aparature.

5

Yes I understand it is harder, but I was assuming the beam could be redirected with many mirrors at a low incidence. but perhaps this is a bad idea as it might incur a signal loss as you imply. Perhaps instead a static X-lens should be used which would be fixed on top of the FEL. 

Something that looked like this:

9AIUrCn.png?2

 

For now I think I put an retextured DT-L-IR-1 Laser Beam Transmitter in a fixed upright position, which should minimise the x-ray laser signal loss

It would then require the entire vessel to aim at a single target. This would of mean you can only connect to one vessel at the time.

Another problem would be redirecting the signal, which is close to impossible, as lenses and mirrors simply don't work.

Another problem is converting the X-ray back to power on the receiving vessel. The only thing I could think of is a thermal panel receiver, like the wrapped thermal receiver. Of course a part of the X-ray energy will go straight though the receiver.

Edited by FreeThinker
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3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Another problem is converting the X-ray back to power on the receiving vessel. The only thing I could think of is a thermal panel receiver, like the wrapped thermal receiver.

@FreeThinker

Actually there is potential for very efficient direct conversion from X-Ray to electricity. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_energy_conversion#X-ray_photoelectric_converter

Quote

LPP announces an overall efficiency of 81% for the photoelectric conversion scheme.

And it is with higher energy, variable wavelength X-Rays. With monochromatic, lower energy X-Rays, IMO conversion efficiency can be higher, probably in excess of 90%.

3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Of course a part of the X-ray energy will go straight though the receiver.

Not really. At 0.1nm, X-Rays are quickly stopped by virtually anything. Take a look - diagram for Half Value Layer (HVL) for aluminium

http://www.sprawls.org/ppmi2/RADPEN/#HALF VALUE LAYER

RADPEN03.jpg

For 0.1 nm, photon energy is only ~12.4 keV. At this wavelength, half of the photons is stopped by just ~0.2mm of aluminium and much less of denser matter (non linear).

Seems like your argument about frying crew with missed beam turned out to be invalid. 

3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

It would then require the entire vessel to aim at a single target. This would of mean you can only connect to one vessel at the time.

This is why i proposed to move whole laser with fixed transmitter.

3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Another problem would be redirecting the signal, which is close to impossible, as lenses and mirrors simply don't work.

This is true. IMO problem can be bypassed by using high efficiency beam to electricity receiver (90%?) and then using infrared or something for local "blindspot" purposes.

Regards

Edited by dankis
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2 hours ago, dankis said:

@FreeThinker

Actually there is potential for very efficient direct conversion from X-Ray to electricity. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_energy_conversion#X-ray_photoelectric_converter

And it is with higher energy, variable wavelength X-Rays. With monochromatic, lower energy X-Rays, IMO conversion efficiency can be higher, probably in excess of 90%.

Not really. At 0.1nm, X-Rays are quickly stopped by virtually anything. Take a look - diagram for Half Value Layer (HVL) for aluminium

http://www.sprawls.org/ppmi2/RADPEN/#HALF VALUE LAYER

h less of denser matter (non linear)

 

3
 

 

Intresting:

Quote

Whereas more classical thermal conversion has been considered with the use of a radiation/boiler/energy exchanger where the X-ray energy is absorbed by a working fluid at temperatures of several thousand degrees,[24] more recent research done by companies developing nuclear aneutronic fusion reactors, like Lawrenceville Plasma Physics (LPP) with the Dense Plasma Focus, and Tri Alpha Energy, Inc. with the Colliding Beam Fusion Reactor (CBFR), plan to harness the photoelectric and Auger effects to recover energy carried by X-rays and other high-energy photons. Those photoelectric converters are composed of X-ray absorber and electron collector sheets nested concentrically in an onion-like array. Indeed, since X-rays can go through far greater thickness of material than electrons can, many layers are needed to absorb most of the X-rays. LPP announces an overall efficiency of 81% for the photoelectric conversion scheme.[25][26]

So we need a deep multilevel solar panel

I guess I should bring back the wrapped solar panel

unBFIWA.png

Which is a 50 x 50 m multilevel solar panel, which was original mend for solar power harvesting, but it heated up too much, so I replaced it with a mirror receiver and folded solar array which was much more effective and easier to fold. But I guess could perform perfectly well as a x-ray solar panel thanks to its depth. Excellent this should constructing a Dyson swarm in the Real Solar System feasible!

 

 

Edited by FreeThinker
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1 hour ago, dankis said:

This is true. IMO problem can be bypassed by using high efficiency beam to electricity receiver (90%?) and then using infrared or something for local "blindspot" purposes.

1

Sounds good but what would be its efficiency when transmitted in different wavelengths than 0.1 nm  X-Ray? would it for example still be able to convert beamed light and infrared light?

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2 hours ago, dankis said:

Not really. At 0.1nm, X-Rays are quickly stopped by virtually anything. Take a look - diagram for Half Value Layer (HVL) for aluminium

http://www.sprawls.org/ppmi2/RADPEN/#HALF VALUE LAYER

RADPEN03.jpg

For 0.1 nm, photon energy is only ~12.4 keV. At this wavelength, half of the photons is stopped by just ~0.2mm of aluminium and much less of denser matter (non linear).

Seems like your argument about frying crew with missed beam turned out to be invalid.

 

3

Lol, I guess I confused X-rays with gamma rays /cosmic radiation, which does penetrate aluminium skin of space vessel very easy

Edited by FreeThinker
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1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Sounds good but what would be its efficiency when transmitted in different wavelengths than 0.1 nm  X-Ray? would it for example still be able to convert beamed light and infrared light?

If you are talking about receiver, then it would probably be only usable for ionizing radiation, so X-Rays and Extreme UV. I really have no idea about efficiency, IMO for different X-Rays, it should be similar.

By the way, how are you going to calculate aperture diameter of transmiter? IMO length should be used instead of diameter. Can't wait for my 240 GWe Solar Station to reach Pluto.

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1 hour ago, dankis said:

By the way, how are you going to calculate aperture diameter of transmiter?

Why Length instead of diameter for X-ray laser aperture?

Hey, by the way, would you be interested in creating a good descroption for the fixed "X-ray transmitter" and "wrapped photoelectric x-ray receiver panel"

Edited by FreeThinker
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1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Why Length instead of diameter for X-ray laser aperture?

Ah sorry, just my misconception. Seems like it should be diameter.

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Hey, by the way, would you be interested in creating a good descroption for the fixed "X-ray transmitter" and "wrapped photoelectric x-ray receiver panel"

I am afraid, I can't help you with this one. I was never good at writing descriptions.

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Is is it normal that first nuclear engine from KSPI, Solid core one, is accelerating and deccelerating for a very long time? It takes appr. 30 seconds to drop thrust from 100% to 0%???

It makes the engine nearly unusable =(

Second part of the question, can I adjust this value myself? I want all engines to have instant thrust response.

Edited by qwertyza
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3 hours ago, qwertyza said:

Second part of the question, can I adjust this value myself? I want all engines to have instant thrust response.

Anyone can edit anything they want. That's what modding is, Qwerty :)   If you google something like "kerbal edit cfg files" you should find all you need to know about changing items ingame to how you like them. Then its just a case of tracking down the cfg for the part you want, and changing it.

Just remember, if you do, the mod creator isnt responsible for you breaking your own game, heh :)

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Hey KSPI peeps,

I am doing another KSPI build and i am starting into antimatter collection. I've been trying various things that require a lot of power but my setups seem to fail, I don't know if it's the waste heat or whatever, cannot figure it out. Would anyone be able to show or link me a build of a self-powered anti-matter lab that should work in theory? I can try to build that and use it as a benchmark to see if there is anything wrong with my build or my mod layout.

My science tree is maxed out.

Just a starting point, even a short description, would help me out. Thanks in advance.

Edited by DrScarlett
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