NSEP

Switching from RO to Stock.

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So i have been playing Realism Overhaul for like 3 weeks now, it is amazing, i love it. But yesterday, i switched back to stock, because i wanted to see what happends, for ya know, science? Switching back to stock after a month of Realism feels weird at first, but rediscovering stock is still alot of fun. And most importantly: Stock KSP becomes alot easier. I litterly made a Duna lander in about 3 minutes and it took me less than 10 minutes to get there. Thats about 15 minutes, better than my 30 minutes of thinking is this actually going to work?

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2 minutes ago, NSEP said:

Stock KSP becomes alot easier.

It's literally too easy after playing RO. Have you found yourself full-throttling every launch yet? I don't touch the throttle during a launch anymore and build rockets around that. In fact, I rarely use throttle when doing a landing either, "z" and "x" are my boys and 1m/s is a cold one.

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I know that feel, been playing on RSS for too long I can't even get to LKO properly anymore.

Worst part for me is designing rockets. I'm so used to building huge rockets for a few percents of payload fraction that whenever I build a LKO rocket I end up with something like a 3 stages design getting to orbit on a single stage. I find LKO rockets way too small and can't build efficiently anymore. And don't get me started on Squad's "one core, one engine of the right size, screw your clusters" thing.

Stock KSP is still fun though, being able to launch a Duna mission with a rocket smaller than a LEO launcher feels very pleasant, lots of things not to worry about. But overall, stock KSP does feel underwhelming.

Edited by Gaarst

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20 minutes ago, regex said:

It's literally too easy after playing RO. Have you found yourself full-throttling every launch yet? I don't touch the throttle during a launch anymore and build rockets around that. In fact, I rarely use throttle when doing a landing either, "z" and "x" are my boys and 1m/s is a cold one.

Yeah actually, its either 100% 0% thrust. I also acted like i had limited ignitions, but after only 1 month, i quickly realized i had less limits and realism.

13 minutes ago, Gaarst said:

Stock KSP is still fun though, being able to launch a Duna mission with a rocket smaller than a LEO launcher feels very pleasant, lots of things not to worry about. But overall, stock KSP feels underwhelming.

It feels good in a way, but at the same time, the fact that KSP fuel tanks are made out of lead and are super heavy is unsettlingly odd, but it is a good way to balance the game, going to orbit with one tank is really odd.

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I only ever played RSS and RO. I switched version from 1.1.2 to 1.2.2 because performance was unbearable, even on my new PC, and wanted to just test fps etc on stock 1.2.2 and compare it with 1.1.2 stock. 

I built a 5 minute rocket and I found myself "dancing" that rocket on the surface of the Mun 15 minutes later, before landing on various locations on it. It was that easy. I didn't design the first rocket to land to mun since I wanted only to test performance of the game, so with no fuel left for coming back, I felt pity for my Kerbals and sent a rescue mission... The "boring" performance test turned out to be quite fun indeed, and kept on a bit longer than original expected.

Fortunately enough, next day, RO came out for 1.2.2 and it looks just amazing!

Back to rebuilding and upgrading my rocket collection from 1.1.2  :P

 

Edited by skoy21
Inserted youtube video

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I don't mean to hijack the thread, but if you don't mind I have two questions for people that play RO:

1.  It is my understanding that RO converts the Kerbin system into the real solar system.  Is it possible to play with all of RO's mechanics, but in the stock Kerbin system?

2.  How long does it take to get the hang of RO?  I really like a challenge with KSP (I use TAC, Dang It (not Kerbalism, but only because of its incompatibility with other mods), but I'm afraid that RO will take a really long time to become competent at.  I have a demanding job, so can't devote as much time to KSP as I wish I could :)

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5 hours ago, ble210 said:

1.  It is my understanding that RO converts the Kerbin system into the real solar system.  Is it possible to play with all of RO's mechanics, but in the stock Kerbin system?

Yes, but it is even easier than playing KSP stock. Realistic part masses make even limited ignitions, realistic RCS and reaction wheels, persistent rotation, and all the other things that go along with RO very easy to deal with on a 1/10.6 scale.

There is a Kopernicus config out there that replaces the stock solar with our own on the same scale if you just want to play stock in Sol system.

Quote

2.  How long does it take to get the hang of RO?  I really like a challenge with KSP (I use TAC, Dang It (not Kerbalism, but only because of its incompatibility with other mods), but I'm afraid that RO will take a really long time to become competent at.  I have a demanding job, so can't devote as much time to KSP as I wish I could :)

It really depends on how much you understand the game and how easily you grasp new concepts (in terms of the game, at least). One thing in RO is that you use procedural tanks almost exclusively unless you are recreating a specific craft from parts specially made for it (most notably Atlas, Titan, Saturn Ib, Saturn V, Soyuz, and Proton, although others obviously exist). Then you have to remember that very few, if any, of your lifting engines will throttle, which means full blast unless you have a specialized engine (usually a hypergolic of some sort). There are a myriad of fuels which can usually just be handled by auto-configuring your procedural tanks but you have to worry about the type of fuel tank you are using and what is best for the fuel. Fuel choices have other consequences, such as craft compactness, storability, and engine capabilities.

In short, it's pretty detailed. If you like that kind of gameplay then step right in. @NathanKell has some excellent tutorials for RP-0, the career mode expansion for RO, which I would highly recommend you start with. Sandbox in RO is very daunting if you don't know what you're doing or didn't "grow up with it". Starting with RP-0 will introduce you to the technology as it advanced here on Earth, and you might find yourself Googling a particular engine to see what the original rocket looked like. :wink:

Once you make a few launches you'll realize it's not nearly as hard as everyone makes out. I find it a more rewarding experience overall, even if I do still play stock on occasion, like if I want to play with KSPIE or something else more fanciful.

If you're interested in a more "KSP-like" experience while using all the RO stuff, get 64K, or whatever it's called these days. It's Kerbin system at 6.4x scale and it plays very much like stock on a larger scale with more nitty-gritty detail.

Edited by regex

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@ble210 you might find this link helpful:

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/wiki/False-KSP-Lessons

 

I will differ in one respect from the excellent @regex. IMO what makes RO harder is, well, everything _but_ the system size. I mean, sure, inclinations and axial tilt make things harder, but the size difference doesn't, really. It requires different ascent strategies, and it forces you to build bigger (of course), but bigger isn't harder, it's just...bigger.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

I will differ in one respect from the excellent @regex. IMO what makes RO harder is, well, everything _but_ the system size. I mean, sure, inclinations and axial tilt make things harder, but the size difference doesn't, really. It requires different ascent strategies, and it forces you to build bigger (of course), but bigger isn't harder, it's just...bigger.

Yeah, I agree with this 100%, I didn't mean to emphasize the system size so much but the lead-in question asked. RO is harder because there's more to keep track of; the devil is in the details and there are plenty of details, but that doesn't mean you need an aeronautics degree to play it.

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9 hours ago, ble210 said:

2.  How long does it take to get the hang of RO?  I really like a challenge with KSP (I use TAC, Dang It (not Kerbalism, but only because of its incompatibility with other mods), but I'm afraid that RO will take a really long time to become competent at.  I have a demanding job, so can't devote as much time to KSP as I wish I could :)

I second the recommendation to watch at least the first few of @NathanKell's tutorials - It explains the most important things in the first few episodes.

@regex has already mentioned the major differences, I'll just add two things that I find important:

Everything takes much longer. While I can build and fly a Mun mission in twenty minutes or so, it usually takes about an hour just to fly one of my Apollo-ish missions in RO, and I flew a lot of those. Building a specific probe and its LV, doing some test so you are sure it can get to LEO and make its transfer burn takes quite a lot of time, too.

The part counts get quite high even on pretty simple spacecraft. But that does not seem to be an issue for most players, I guess I'm just a bit spoiled, but when the clock turns yellow and the launch gets a bit laggy, I just don't enjoy it so much.

 

But, as the guys said, most of the players are afraid to try RO. Yes, it is harder than stock, but not impossibly hard for an experienced player. And if you get stuck, there are many folks on the forums that will gladly point you in the right direction.

Michal.don

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, ble210 said:

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but if you don't mind I have two questions for people that play RO:

1.  It is my understanding that RO converts the Kerbin system into the real solar system.  Is it possible to play with all of RO's mechanics, but in the stock Kerbin system?

2.  How long does it take to get the hang of RO?  I really like a challenge with KSP (I use TAC, Dang It (not Kerbalism, but only because of its incompatibility with other mods), but I'm afraid that RO will take a really long time to become competent at.  I have a demanding job, so can't devote as much time to KSP as I wish I could :)

I know your questions have been answered but i still wanted to answer anyways.

1. Yes you can, it would be a way too easy though, Real Fuels balances out the fuel tank weight and you should be able to go pretty much anywhere with just 1 fuel tank.

2. For me, i made a small Real Fuels/RSS modpack, wich made me get a feel for RO, and then i downloaded all the other mods. Once you get about 10 things in orbit with that, you should be ready for KSP.

Edited by NSEP

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Alright, this thread just pushed me over the edge. I just started a RP-0 career. That was good advice since sandbox RO was indeed too overwhelming.

My first two sounding rockets crashed horribly, but the third one flew and the fourth one *almost* hit the Karman line :)

 

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Wow, I was not expecting so many detailed responses- thank you!!

I think I might give RP-0 a whirl, I think I'll like the challenge

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9 hours ago, ble210 said:

I think I might give RP-0 a whirl, I think I'll like the challenge

If you like Realism Overhaul, you will like RP-0, without a doubt!

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I'm liking it already. I'm currently struggling with procedural interstages and ullage, heh :wink:

... and now there's a new version of RP-0, just when I got the old one working. Oh well :wink:

 

Edited by ChainiaC
more info

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Both just updated earlier and RP-0 is now officially on 1.2.2 :) RP-0 really helps you going to learn the basics as you're following real life loosely and how they overcome the challenges :)
(That's the nice thing: you see something work in real life it most of the times works in RO :P)

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On 6/9/2017 at 1:20 PM, regex said:

It's literally too easy after playing RO. Have you found yourself full-throttling every launch yet? I don't touch the throttle during a launch anymore and build rockets around that. In fact, I rarely use throttle when doing a landing either, "z" and "x" are my boys and 1m/s is a cold one.

Hate to say it, but "cracking open a cold one with the boys" is a dead meme.

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1 hour ago, memes in space said:

Hate to say it, but "cracking open a cold one with the boys" is a dead meme.

Somehow, I just don't think he cares. I know I don't. Not everything has to be up-to-date passing fads.

Back to the original topic: I haven't yet played on full RO, but I still suspect I would be tripping over myself switching back to stock: I've gotten so accustomed to adding a bit of RCS for ullage, ensuring I have enough solar panels and batteries for RemoteTech antennae, checking whether I have a cryogenic or storable propellant loaded, etc, that I'd probably wind up adding unnecessary parts to my vehicles because I forgot I didn't need them.

And that's if I don't forget that no, I don't need quite that much delta-V...

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1 hour ago, memes in space said:

Hate to say it, but "cracking open a cold one with the boys" is a dead meme.

Please dont make this a meme discussion thread.

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2 hours ago, memes in space said:

Hate to say it, but "cracking open a cold one with the boys" is a dead meme.

No ragrets.

E: Also, guise, RP-0 should be up on CKAN for 1.2.2 sometime soon, it was released last night. RO now installs from CKAN for 1.2.2 except for a few things like Principia (seriously, why aren't you playing with Principia? KSP TOT even has support for it..)

Edited by regex

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On 6/10/2017 at 2:53 AM, skoy21 said:

 

Fortunately enough, next day, RO came out for 1.2.2 and it looks just amazing!

Back to rebuilding and upgrading my rocket collection from 1.1.2  :P

 

Um is it out for 1.2? Cuz I wasn't able to get it through CKAN on 1.2 and even with manual install, there were certain mods that were not updated to 1.2. I had to get it on 1.1.3 :(

 

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Guys, could you help me out with getting realplume to work in ro/rss

I'm getting no plumes on my engines. Could you specify exactly which realplume folders I need in Gamedata? Like any configs or whatever? If you could, send a screenshot of your gamedata folder :) 

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50 minutes ago, SlimyGufBawl said:

Guys, could you help me out with getting realplume to work in ro/rss

I'm getting no plumes on my engines. Could you specify exactly which realplume folders I need in Gamedata? Like any configs or whatever? If you could, send a screenshot of your gamedata folder :) 

The plume configs are in the main GameData/RealismOverhaul directory. You may want to consider reinstalling the entire mod suite if you're not getting any plumes. Also maybe try deleting the ModuleManager cache file.

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On 6/9/2017 at 5:51 PM, ble210 said:

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but if you don't mind I have two questions for people that play RO:

1.  It is my understanding that RO converts the Kerbin system into the real solar system.  Is it possible to play with all of RO's mechanics, but in the stock Kerbin system?

2.  How long does it take to get the hang of RO?  I really like a challenge with KSP (I use TAC, Dang It (not Kerbalism, but only because of its incompatibility with other mods), but I'm afraid that RO will take a really long time to become competent at.  I have a demanding job, so can't devote as much time to KSP as I wish I could :)

Keep in mind that you can also use Sigma Dimensions to increase the stock system up to 10.6x to get realistic rocket sizes and constraints. 

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