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Squad- Please "Chop this wood"


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@Azimech If i may be bold/blunt on a few things:

1. This is a space sim of sorts not a flight sim. 

2. If people are bored with space in this game then why not play warthunder or some other flight simulator?

And before anyone says it i accept you the individual reader may and do play how you see fit, but, I posit: If a player is bored with space in a space themed game, then there is an inherent flaw with said game. I further posit this flaw comes down to a flawed beyond reason career mode. It is nonlogical, non linear, lacks a real story, tech tree is non logically laid out with an even worse progression path and lacks emotional engagement, meaning why should I give my time to this? Why should I do this task over that? Again my views, but, I posit many may feel this way vocal or not.

Yes mods do handle some of this but you can only bandage something so much.

If say KIS/KAS and say planetary base systems were stock it would add reasons to do things and stuff to do.  Even in sandbox. I do not claim to know the answers only what I feel is missing. 

This entire post is disclaimed as my personal thoughts, feelings and perceptions. You my reader may feel differently and thats cool. My thoughts represent my own opinion to be accepted or discarded at your discretion.

time 22:48:05

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1 hour ago, AlamoVampire said:

If a player is bored with space in a space themed game, then there is an inherent flaw with said game.

Personally, I do not believe it is an inherent flaw. The fact that someone can make a space themed game and make it enjoyable to those not wishing to go to space or spend the time and effort needed for calculations and design and tweaking for space and interplanetary travel, IMO, is great! However, you do point out the game is flawed. For me, I've never played career, though I do agree with your complaints. I also believe there is not enough of a reason to go to space. The only one now is "cause its cool". I again, have to agree adding something like bases would help with this. However, I disagree with your statement saying we should just "play another game" if we don't want to go to space. If we enjoy KSP, let us. The reason it works for me is cause I can make what I want, not some other developer making a fixed object for me to play with.

Just also my thoughts, not trying to cause a flame war. I respect your thoughts, though I may disagree.

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@qzgy If I may, seeing as a forum is a place, meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged (the preceding was ripped right out of a dictionary fwiw), I say: disagree and agree all you like! If we cannot freely discourse and repudiate each other then the free flow of ideas ceases. Its sad we must disclaimer our selves, our posts and so forth from time to time it really is, but thats the times we live in I guess.

That said, I fully maintain that a good portion of issues stems from a solid lack of a really well thought out and designed and implemented career mode. I play career mode once per update to see if its been fixed, become saddened it isnt and rejoin my sandbox where I may not be able to science meaningfully (not even science mode is truly meaningful about the hows, whys and wherefores on science to be blunt) but by gum its story is rich and sweeping like a great novel!

 

Someday perhaps, perhaps KSP volume 2 maybe, will see our issues resolved until then, theres a mod for that?

time 02:49:05

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15 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

The last point I'll make- The world is getting dumber, politics are hampering knowledge and curiosity. Games like KSP opens a window into the world of creative scientific imagination. Even if the game stays exactly the way it is, it is still a marvel and a wonderful game that expose people to critical thinking they may not otherwise exercise. If nothing I wished here comes true, I'm still proud of KSP and it's contributions. 

Well said!

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I have to disagree with the graphics statement. Poor lads who have been playing KSP from the beginning should not have to pay an extra £€$200 just to play their favourite game again. It is their fault that they have a potato system, but at the same time, don't let them start protesting.

As an on/off feature? Hell yeah why the snoopies not!

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@NSEP So it is a persons fault that they may be financially incapable of purchasing anything more than an idaho spud? And by your logic are not permitted to then speak up for their continued right to play a game they put money, money that they decided in their situation what ever that situation is to go to Squad, to be able to be assured minimum specs do not leave said spud behind? Thats rather impertinently presumptuous dont you think? As far as I am concerned I repudiate such a stance. 

My stance, my opinion, accept or reject at your discretion.

time 10:34:45 

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44 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

@NSEP So it is a persons fault that they may be financially incapable of purchasing anything more than an idaho spud? And by your logic are not permitted to then speak up for their continued right to play a game they put money, money that they decided in their situation what ever that situation is to go to Squad, to be able to be assured minimum specs do not leave said spud behind? Thats rather impertinently presumptuous dont you think? As far as I am concerned I repudiate such a stance. 

My stance, my opinion, accept or reject at your discretion.

time 10:34:45 

No, no he was not saying that.

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1 hour ago, AlamoVampire said:

@NSEP So it is a persons fault that they may be financially incapable of purchasing anything more than an idaho spud? And by your logic are not permitted to then speak up for their continued right to play a game they put money, money that they decided in their situation what ever that situation is to go to Squad, to be able to be assured minimum specs do not leave said spud behind? Thats rather impertinently presumptuous dont you think? As far as I am concerned I repudiate such a stance. 

My stance, my opinion, accept or reject at your discretion.

time 10:34:45 

I was not going in that direction though.

Maybe you took it a little too far.

I do kind accept your opinion though, i get it.

Edited by NSEP
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3 hours ago, NSEP said:

<snip> It is their fault that they have a potato system, but at the same time, don't let them start protesting.

<snip>

@technicalfool with all respects, the portion of @NSEP s post i have here thusly quoted seems to rather directly state it is a persons fault they have a potato. Unless there is a meaning I am oblivious to, to myself the meaning was clear, thus my post. 

Now with respects to you NSEP given the above quote you see how I have arrived at my prior post? I am open to clarification of the tack you intended if you are so inclined, as I think theres a wonderful conversation on the way.

time 12:18:45

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15 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

Now with respects to you NSEP given the above quote you see how I have arrived at my prior post? I am open to clarification of the tack you intended if you are so inclined, as I think theres a wonderful conversation on the way.

time 12:18:45

Thanks, i do get what you mean, but im not really open for a conversation now, no clarification needed. :wink:

I end here, thanks.

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On 6/12/2017 at 6:21 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

For my two cents: I'd like to see KER, KAC, Stock Revamp and some sort of life support mod (re)implemented.

 

This has been said before, but KER and Life Support would add unneeded complexity for new players. If there was an option to turn them off, then my objections would vanish.

15 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

<snip>

It is nonlogical, non linear, lacks a real story, tech tree is non logically laid out with an even worse progression path and lacks emotional engagement, meaning why should I give my time to this?

<snip>

 
 

How often was real life linear, backed by a story, or logical? Career mode to me seems like a Kerbal Version of NASA's History. NASA was Government-funded, and to get extra money they had to do contracts. Government's don't exist in stock KSP, so we are left with Contracts. They started with poor facilities and primitive technology. Sound familiar? They flew missions and researched new technologies to further their main goal. Just like KSP, with the exception of the main goal part.

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10 minutes ago, DeltaDizzy said:

This has been said before, but KER and Life Support would add unneeded complexity for new players. If there was an option to turn them off, then my objections would vanish.

How often was real life linear, backed by a story, or logical? Career mode to me seems like a Kerbal Version of NASA's History. NASA was Government-funded, and to get extra money they had to do contracts. Government's don't exist in stock KSP, so we are left with Contracts. They started with poor facilities and primitive technology. Sound familiar? They flew missions and researched new technologies to further their main goal. Just like KSP, with the exception of the main goal part.

I agree on your first point. Your second, however, not so much. Yes, contracts were a thing and NASA had to fly often boring missions. But the current career mod leaves a lot to be desired. You can only do so many "send a satellite in this orbit" before it becomes super boring.

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@DeltaDizzy So its logical to develop a kerbal carrying rocket before you develop probes? To be capable of putting a foot on mun before the most basic probe goes up? Ya, no, illogical. Beyond that if you succeed at going into solar orbit even by accident you now get contracts for interplanetary stuff. The reach exceeds capability which isnt logical. Just sayin. My opinion ofc.

time 17:38:45 

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49 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

So its logical to develop a kerbal carrying rocket before you develop probes? To be capable of putting a foot on mun before the most basic probe goes up? Ya, no, illogical. Beyond that if you succeed at going into solar orbit even by accident you now get contracts for interplanetary stuff. The reach exceeds capability which isnt logical. Just sayin. My opinion ofc.

time 17:38:45 

 

I failed to mention RP-0, which is more historically accurate.It is? Wow!  My fault.

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3 hours ago, DeltaDizzy said:

This has been said before, but KER and Life Support would add unneeded complexity for new players. If there was an option to turn them off, then my objections would vanish.

KER already has an option to turn it off, the problem is stock has no way to turn it on. @DMagic has made a nice stock-like interface for it that isn't too overwhelming, the only drawback for me is that the dV stats aren't available in flight (toggle for this when? :P)

Life support is an essential feature, to my mind. How can a game claim to be any sort of quasi-realistic space sim without modelling one of the core challenges of crewed spaceflight? It can be made approachable for new players through proper displays and unit choice, as well as having pods contain enough for basic missions. I cannot imagine life support being more difficult to figure out than interplanetary transfers.

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Oh, interplanetary transfers are easy with a small helping of Scott Manley. I think NEAR would be better, at least for now. Add a life support toggle and I'm fine with it. I'm also worried about the extra CPU, RAM, and Storage strain this would have.

Quote

Recommended System Specs:
* 2.0Ghz Dual Core CPU or higher (preferably higher)
* 4GB RAM
* 512MB Video Card, Shader Model 3.0
* 4GB Free HD space
* Windows Vista, 7, 8 or 10
* An Intel-based Mac running Mac OS X 10.8 or higher
* A Debian based Linux distro
* Chromebooks are NOT SUPPORTED

 

From the KSP website, with additional bolds for emphasis. I am typing this on a Surface Pro 3! I have 4 GB of RAM, 118 GB of TOTAL HD space, and Intel HD Graphics. Stock makes my computer feel like

 giphy.gif

Yet somehow I made a space station with almost all near future parts. Recently I have found KSP unplayable because of temperature-induced system crashes. Some people with higher specs than me struggle to experience a small fraction of the huge amount of free DLC(mods) that the community has to offer. That's why a mod really has to be worth it to get included into stock, IMHO. I don't care how long it takes, but it has to be something all or almost all players would use and enjoy. Otherwise, you can just download a mod that does it and those of us with lower end systems can play the game with less unnecessary strain.

source.gif

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40 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

KER already has an option to turn it off, the problem is stock has no way to turn it on. @DMagic has made a nice stock-like interface for it that isn't too overwhelming, the only drawback for me is that the dV stats aren't available in flight (toggle for this when? :P)

Life support is an essential feature, to my mind. How can a game claim to be any sort of quasi-realistic space sim without modelling one of the core challenges of crewed spaceflight? It can be made approachable for new players through proper displays and unit choice, as well as having pods contain enough for basic missions. I cannot imagine life support being more difficult to figure out than interplanetary transfers.

Its not about difficulty with LS.  It has 2 effects...


A. It adds mass to craft

B. It adds repettitive resupply missions to stations/bases.

It adds nothing engaging to gameplay. A. Has no real impact and B is just tedium.  It has nothing to do with making it more difficult, it has everything with adding nothing engaging and in fact the opposite.

I don't care if they add it, but it better have a way to shut it off so people who want to do more interesting things don't have to deal with that nonsense burdensome 'feature'.

Edited by Alshain
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The only part of the OP I agree with is implementing graphical improvement mods. The water waves, clouds, shine and etc. are all awesome features that don't really change any game-play that really liven up the atmosphere of the game. I don't really know what reasons there would be for not implementing these. I disagree with adding mods that simply add parts. We have enough in the stock game to build anything we please. 

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28 minutes ago, Jon144 said:

The only part of the OP I agree with is implementing graphical improvement mods. The water waves, clouds, shine and etc. are all awesome features that don't really change any game-play that really liven up the atmosphere of the game. I don't really know what reasons there would be for not implementing these. I disagree with adding mods that simply add parts. We have enough in the stock game to build anything we please. 

the problem with adding those mods is

Le Graphiques

(the graphics in no particular language)

they have a huge amount of...I don't really know I'm no compooter geinus, but it puts a ton of stress on my laptop, so I can't have that many graphics

also we can't have an on/off feature because of @TheRagingIrishman's explanation, it apparently loads every single one in the game, so even with it off, its still taking up part of the...whatever it's called

and I disagree, I like adding part mods, they add things in the game that aren't in the game

so graphics, nay

parts, yay

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KSP's graphics are honestly very cavemanesque. I have run the game on laptops lacking any dedicated graphics card and it runs just the same at any settings. It's the processing power the really drains it in my experience.

The best part about graphics though even if they were taxing is that they can be turned down in settings usually. Not the case with game-play altering mods. 

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4 minutes ago, StupidAndy said:

the problem with adding those mods is

Le Graphiques

(the graphics in no particular language)

they have a huge amount of...I don't really know I'm no compooter geinus, but it puts a ton of stress on my laptop, so I can't have that many graphics

also we can't have an on/off feature because of @TheRagingIrishman's explanation, it apparently loads every single one in the game, so even with it off, its still taking up part of the...whatever it's called

and I disagree, I like adding part mods, they add things in the game that aren't in the game

so graphics, nay

parts, yay

Parts actually put weight on your CPU and Ram as well, so they will also slow down your game eventually. Also, I'm sure if graphic mods were ever implemented, they would be toggle-able like everything else. So arguments like this are null tbh.

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Just now, Galileo said:

Parts actually put weight on your CPU and Ram as well, so they will also slow down your game eventually. Also, I'm sure if graphic mods were ever implemented, they would be toggle-able like everything else. So arguments like this are null tbh.

well I know nothing about computers...so yeah...

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17 minutes ago, StupidAndy said:

well I know nothing about computers...so yeah...

I started a thread a long time ago talking about part and did some extensive testing, and part mods, especially larger ones, can cause performance loss for whatever reason. We never came to a conclusion but we really wanted an answer or solution. The closest we got was just trimming part mods and deleting the parts you know you would never use. Pretty dumb, but that's all we got :/ 

 

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