Alchemist

Twin Shuttles to Jool (STS Laythe mission + Laythe Elcano + Jool 5)

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Posted (edited)

HRO shuttles, originally designed for some advanced levels of STS challenge, now join together for even more daring mission than before

 

Launch sequence

First is HRO-M03 with all the deployable vehicles. Including the Elcanoplan 2 strapped on its back

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Barely enough thrust for takeoff (and that's with payloads having the tanks practically dry). I even activated the main engine of the Elcanoplan, but that didn't seem to make much difference either.

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Those boosters barely miss the tail wings (just don't forget to set SAS to prograde)

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Also waited a bit after the tank ran dry before separating it - to wait for the ship to get a bit more balanced (orbiter's tanks are set to drain from the tail first)

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55 km? Eh, this isn't Laythe yet! Also forgot to ignite OMS

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OMS + upper pair of main engines = the best balanced solution with this payload. One ship in orbit

 

OK, now to the second launch...

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What the Kraken?!!

OK, After a tweak to the clamps... let's pretend that didn't happen

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HRO-M takes off a bit easier, despite having full payload bay as well

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Looks like we launched a bit too early

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Well, raise the apoapsis a bit higher and let's meet in one orbit

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Let's align... and wait for some sunlight

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Despite the size, HRO is quite good at docking. If you don't rush. (Hey, it's called Heavy Recovery Orbiter - what else could you expect?)

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This position will provide the best balancing

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And in couple passes we get the transfer to... somewhere green

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But this is... Anyway, let's get into polar orbit. By the way, HRO-M also has the scanner antenna in the bay

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Going down

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This modification of HRO-M has got some landing upgrades from the latest version of HRO-M03

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And a full mining rig in the bay

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Minmus means "mine me", doesn't it?

And a few days later...

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And in the meantime HROM-03 changed to equatorial orbit - so here's the direct intercept with it

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There's enough to fully fill all LFO and ore tanks of the craft in orbit

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So let's make another run down - this time at the equator

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And after refuel... Who needs atmosphere for horizontal takeoff?

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And back together - with plenty of fuel

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Transfer

And over 300 days later... (yeah, completely missed the window)

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What's the best way for Minmus-Jool transfer?

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Oberth effect!

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Say goodbye to Kerbin!

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And a couple years later...

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Let's just capture into Laythe-Pol transfer orbit

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What a view!

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And then, since there seems to be enough fuel to reach the destinations independently, let's separate the ships

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Oh, hey there! Has anybody checked for running into Vall?

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Now to pass by Tylo - barely missing its SOI  (turned to get better solution than with slingshots) and we are getting to the destination

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Let's capture with rocket engines, and then release the mapsat - it will change plane at apoapsis

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Now, to lower the orbit... the shuttle way

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Strangely enough, the moment you get in, it feels about as much (if not more) drag as on the same altitude on Kerbin.

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Just don't forget to stabilize the orbit

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Low Laythe orbit achieved! Next phase - going down there

Edited by Alchemist

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Laythe landing

Found a nice place with plenty of ore for refueling!

 

 

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Nice going so far! Is it a hydrofoil or an ekranoplan (and you RP the ground effect)?

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19 hours ago, Chemp said:

Is it a hydrofoil or an ekranoplan (and you RP the ground effect)?

I didn't notice any surface effect in stock aerodynamics - if it really takes off, it won't stop climbing at a few meters above the surface or anything.

So technically it is as much hydrofoil as the one I used to circumnavigate Kerbin, apart from the fact that the new version is actually capable of taking off from water, making it a legit hydroplane (but horizontal water-landing is barely possible - that's why there are chutes). However, the optimal cruise mode is getting the hydrofoils to barely touch the surface with the very tips - so it is almost hovering above the water.

Actually, I've traveled for a few hours and there is a complain - at around 1/3 of total fuel+ore capacity I got some terrible stability issues on Laythe (on Kerbin even empty craft seemed to work OK, apart from the fact it reached high enough velocity it managed to unintentionally take off without deploying flaps). Haven't found correct hydrofoil balancing for that yet - so refueled it again.

 

P.S. Nice thing about such water-gliding is that it requires minimal pilot input during cruise phase - so I can at least work on reports while it's traveling.

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1 hour ago, Alchemist said:

So technically it is as much hydrofoil as the one I used to circumnavigate Kerbin

Yes, I remember that one. Revisiting the thread, it turns out I missed the last legs of your journey. Well, I caught up almost a year later :)

1 hour ago, Alchemist said:

Actually, I've traveled for a few hours and there is a complain - at around 1/3 of total fuel+ore capacity I got some terrible stability issues on Laythe (on Kerbin even empty craft seemed to work OK, apart from the fact it reached high enough velocity it managed to unintentionally take off without deploying flaps). Haven't found correct hydrofoil balancing for that yet - so refueled it again.

I had similar problems, on Laythe and on Kerbin. Due to the lower weight, the craft rise higher out of the water and any slight imbalance then leads to uncontrollable wobbling or a flip. I was able to partially counteract that by manually adjusting the front foils in the tweakables menu and pumping fuel to the front tanks but after a certain point (about 25% fuel), the best solution was to ease off the throttle. I still managed to get up to 100m/s, which compared to 110m/s when fully fuelled and ~140m/s@50% fuel was still ok.

Were you able to figure out a way to use the boat with timewarp? My craft ended up making a nosedive whenever I tried.

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Posted (edited)

Elcano: first part

Point 0 - Landing site

Let's start! Maxvy, the pilot, goes out of the shuttle to place the flag on the landing site. Yeah, here we have a definitive reason to return exactly to this place.

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And goes to the Elcanoplan. Yup, the guys are left in the shuttle at the base (Patdock does his job at running the mining rig, Billy-Bobdun is complaining that somebody replaced the lab with a crew cabin) and the girls decided to go sightseeing all by themselves

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And start the engine!

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It's the darkest right before dawn,isn't it?

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The terrain on this island is more uneven than it may seem to be.

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Finally we can see the sea!

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Point 1 - Joolrise beach
Distance traveled: 40 km

Splash! And then swim back to place the flag. Wait what? it was 40 kilometers driving??

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Anyway, full throttle until we reach the cruise mode. Why is it so sluggish at accelerating?

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As if we were dragging an anchor or... GEAR! Retract the damn gear!

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Now this is the cruise mode!

Point 2
Distance from the last site: 188 km
Total distance traveled: 228 km
Distance from the landing site: 227 km

A new island! or a couple. And the engine makes strange effects on water - should it really be like this at such angle?

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Looks just like back home...

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Until you realize

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That's not Mun! Yeah, with the distances in this system it sometimes becomes confusing.

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Let's swim just between this island and it's natural satellite

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Look, barely touching the water!

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Point 3 - Greenway Lagoon
Distance from the last site: 132 km
Total distance traveled: 360 km
Distance from the landing site: 359 km

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The bay is pointing straight at Jool!

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Point 4 - Vulcanic island
Distance from the last site: 125 km
Total distance traveled: 486 km
Distance from the landing site: 484 km

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Does it not look a little vulcanic?

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With such neighbors a moon might get quite heated up from inside by tidal forces

Point 5 - going north
Distance from the last site: 256 km
Total distance traveled: 742 km
Distance from the landing site: 656 km

The planet gets down to the horizon behind us. How far north can we get?

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Looks like it froze

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and formed a vertical wall...

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Hey, Maxvy managed to climb up there!

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Would it be a challenge rule violation if the craft "jumped" up there by taking off? Anyway, let's go to some more hospitable place

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A bit later...

 

Ah, what a lovely sunset.

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If only we weren't having stability issues - need to refuel at next shore. ...  WHAT THE?!?

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I accidentally chutes. Decie, did you not lock the staging? Now get out and repack. (after all, chutes are an emergency measure - so need to have them ready)

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Point 6 - first refueling
Distance from the last site: 192 km
Total distance traveled: 934 km
Distance from the landing site: 829 km

Land on the horizon!

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Just carefully approach it.

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And climb out of water

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Edited by Alchemist

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29 minutes ago, Chemp said:

I had similar problems, on Laythe and on Kerbin. Due to the lower weight, the craft rise higher out of the water and any slight imbalance then leads to uncontrollable wobbling or a flip. I was able to partially counteract that by manually adjusting the front foils in the tweakables menu and pumping fuel to the front tanks but after a certain point (about 25% fuel), the best solution was to ease off the throttle. I still managed to get up to 100m/s, which compared to 110m/s when fully fuelled and ~140m/s@50% fuel was still ok.

Pitch oscillations are quite efficiently countered by adjusting hydrofoil trim and limiting the speed, yes. (the comfortable speed for this craft on Laythe seems to be around 70 m/s, however on Kerbin it was quite good at around 100 m/s. On the other hand, I was kind of aiming more for fuel efficiency than for speed - and after it fully raises to the tips of the hydrofoils any further speed increase just results in more losses to drag and pitch oscillations). At least the engine is not as high-placed as on the original version.

The stability issue I ran into seems to be some pitch-roll resonance that on certain fuel levels can result in flip the moment I try to adjust the bearing (normally, high speed turns only result in some speed loss). Even worse, in some cases it seems to turn into this madness even without trying to turn - creates yaw oscillation and makes a side flip!
Oh, found something! Pumping fuel between central and side tanks affects roll oscillations - at least a good way to get those out of resonating with pitch

29 minutes ago, Chemp said:

Were you able to figure out a way to use the boat with timewarp? My craft ended up making a nosedive whenever I tried.

Yeah, it definitely enhances al the oscillation effects. From a major speed loss to a total flip. Anyway, this is the fastest (and quite safe) way of surface travel even without the warp, isn't it? (except for driving on aircraft gear across polar caps)

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Posted (edited)

Laythe Elcano - part 2

Refueling complete - place the flag and let's go

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Now heading almost straight south

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Point 7 - Meridian ridge
Distance from the last site: 207 km
Total distance traveled: 1142 km
Distance from the landing site: 927 km

The islands around here form a ridge going straight north to south along the edge of a huge empty ocean

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Point 8 - Impact crater rim
Distance from the last site: 208 km
Total distance traveled: 1350 km
Distance from the landing site: 991 km

Looks a bit familiar, doesn't it?

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Point 9 - Bird's head island
Distance from the last site: 213 km
Total distance traveled: 1563 km - about half the circumference
Distance from the landing site: 1093 km

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Point 10 - Claw islands
Distance from the last site: 271 km
Total distance traveled: 1834 km
Distance from the landing site: 1175 km - furthest flag from landing site

Claws of the same bird?

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By the way, managed to solve some of the instability by enabling roll input on some of the control surfaces... and disabling it on bottom rudders (how the heck did I forget to check that!?)

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Point 11 - Second refueling site
Distance from the last site: 171 km
Total distance traveled: 2005 km
Distance from the landing site: 1108 km

I don't think we are getting such option anywhere further for a while (and our tanks are almost dry), so let's mine some fuel on this island

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Rather steep

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Rolling uphill

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And start mining

 

And here's the map

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Edited by Alchemist

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And just a little demonstration of the Elcanoplan watergliding

 

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Posted (edited)

Laythe Elcano - part 3

Point 12 - Southern polar cap
Distance from the last site: 258 km
Total distance traveled: 2263 km
Distance from the landing site: 984 km

Going there in the dusk

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A steep wall again

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How to get up there?

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Climbing failed, need a lift. Speaking of which... What if?

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Yup, it can at least be used as an elevator. Just stand on top and press the deploy button

 

Point 13
Distance from the last site: 186 km
Total distance traveled: 2450 km
Distance from the landing site: 965 km

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Back to not-frozen land

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In the darkness of night with not even Jool in the sky around here. A Joolless night

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Point 14 - Satellite island
Distance from the last site: 143 km
Total distance traveled: 2593 km
Distance from the landing site: 934 km

Cruising along another island...

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Hey, what's that dead ahead?

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The big island got itself a tiny satellite!

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Point 15 - Unnoticed island
Distance from the last site: 101 km
Total distance traveled: 2694 km
Distance from the landing site: 846 km

When plotting course, barely noticed that there was something on the map in between the last stop and those islands to the north...

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Yup, looks like land

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What a cute little island In the middle of nowhere

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Oh well, let's refuel here, even if we still are half-full. Should be the last refuel on the route

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Because we are going to do some ocean crossing next

Here's the map so far:

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Edited by Alchemist

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Posted (edited)

Laythe Elcano - Final part

And the next morning - we are fully fueled and going over the ocean

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Point 16: Gatekeeper islands
Distance from the last site: 470 km - Longest sea crossing on the route
Total distance traveled: 3164 km - we exceeded 2πR
Distance from the landing site: 379 km

And couple hours of ocean crossing later - we see the land!

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This pair of islands forms something like a gateway

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Let's go further...

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Point 17 - Checkpoint bay
Distance from the last site: 105 km
Total distance traveled: 3269 km
Distance from the landing site: 274 km

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One entrance, one exit, a round bay inside

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Going across

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And looking back

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And after that - we have our way back to the island we started on

Point 18 - Back to landing island
Distance from the last site: 235 km
Total distance traveled: 3504 km
Distance from the landing site: 66 km

Oh look, what is on the horizon. It means we are soon to get back

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Land on the horizon!

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Approaching the shore under cower of night

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Here we are!

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And let's wait for the sunrise before driving on the land

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And since there are lakes, couldn't resist the chance to get the fins wet again

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Point 19 - Triplet lakes
Distance from the last site: 36 km
Total distance traveled: 3540 km
Distance from the landing site: 50 km

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Definitely couldn't resist taking a swim in there

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Ah, the Sun appeared from behind Jool

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Point 20 - Getting out of the water
Distance from the last site: 24 km
Total distance traveled: 3564 km
Distance from the landing site: 35 km

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And back to the starting point!
Distance from the last site: 35 km
Total distance traveled: 3599 km
Distance from the landing site: 0 km

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And mission complete!

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Edited by Alchemist

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Congrats on finishing the circumnavigation! Is the other shuttle capable of bringing the crew back?

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1 hour ago, Chemp said:

Congrats on finishing the circumnavigation! Is the other shuttle capable of bringing the crew back?

Thanks! It was an interesting experience to explore such a distant moon up close. And watch the other moons moving in the sky.

The shuttle should get the crew out of here. At least to orbit (not sure if there will be enough fuel left to navigate straight to outer moons). And there is the second shuttle with its mining rig... still flying to Pol. Didn't get proper encounter right away and got stuck in elliptic orbit (at least found a solution that avoids Vall and Tylo) for an entire orbit of Pol.

P.S. Calculated the distance data from flag coordinates (added to the reports). 3600 km

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Laythe takeoff

Mandatory photo of the crew and the ship

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... the ships, that is

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Drive to position, set for takeoff config and... start the jets!

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And now - blast off!

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OK, don't accelerate too much in the atmosphere.

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Jets + OMS. Strange combination

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Space!

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And orbit

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Still quite some fuel left... Can we get a cheap way out?

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Could work. But once again not the best timing. At least the other shuttle will be there first and we are not getting anything without its ISRU anyway

 

HRO-M arrival at Pol

Target in sight!

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Insert in polar orbit and run the scanners

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Kerbnet picked something - landing there

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Just stop the fall, turn horizontal and... why are we hovering?!  There was no such issue on Minmus, what kind of gravity is this, so advanced attitude control makes VTOL?

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Drive closer to the anomaly and start mining. For one thing it's not that easy to notice among other things around

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Bob goes to check it out

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Laythe-Pol transfer

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All as planned, except this fuel amount may be insufficient for orbital insertion

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But at least we don't need to recover this shuttle from around Laythe

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And speaking of recovery...

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Guess what ship was actually designed for a mission that involved catching something on escape trajectory

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Burn the remaining fuel in one craft, compensate the rest of relative velocity with the other

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And gently dock.

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And drive back into low orbit

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And we will need couple more runs down there to top off the fuel

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Pol-Tylo transfer

So, here they are, full and ready to go to the next destination

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The problem with doing such mission with similar-sized vessels, as you can see, is that when docking it treats different ships as the main ship (probably, just based in the mass), so the MET timer gets messed up

Let's go. The transfer needs to be as cheap as possible, so no midcourse plane corrections

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Heh, Jool is still transparent at this distance

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Looks like we are getting almost polar orbit. Any plane correction would be a too expensive. OK, this actually can be useful.

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And here's one detail I deliberately left out of the report so far. HRO-M03 carried 2 mapping satellites - one of them was was released when the shuttle entered Laythe orbit, but the second separated slightly before that and while the shuttle passed just outside Tylo SOI (slingshots didn't offer any improvement of the Laythe encounter), the satellite got right where you see it. And over the time spent here it picked two anomaly signals, one of them at quite some latitude.

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If this landing is possible, then we are a go for Jool 5 - third challenge in one mission

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Let's leave the second shuttle here. Now, the fuel is quite a question, since we have to get back to Pol, therefore we will need as much fuel up here as we can leave... but we need to be able to land with the fuel we take.

Of course, the dilemma was exactly about it - take slightly below full LFO, full LFO or lower the orbit a bit more, before separating with full tanks. I decided to try the first option (well, it's always possible to revert to this point and give another try with more fuel in the landing shuttle. however quite a time-consuming option), separating here with almost full LFO and leaving the second shuttle with slightly over half its LFO reserves.

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Lowering orbit

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And next comes the moment of truth...

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Tylo landing

Yeah, not too eager to repeat this. Too high gravity for my piloting skills, rather tight fuel budget, plus I managed to screw up one qiuicksave a bit, making the margins even tighter, unless I wished to once again revert all the way to the start of the video...

Anyway, here we are

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At least these shuttles need no atmosphere for horizontal takeoff

Funnily enough, there was a very cheap option to get back to Pol, yet I managed to leave so much fuel up there that we had no trouble flying to Bop in a rather straightforward way

 

And then, this time with a proper slingshot, HRO-M flies to Vall

 

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c97eac659cbd.png

 

Back to Bop

Didn't even refuel fully, but since we didn't spend too much fuel on the way here, I just decided to take the next option for aligning transfer with plane intersection

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OK, maybe the fuel budget is going a bit tight if this transfer is done without a slingshot...

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But we seem to have quite enough left for landing

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Let's meet with other shuttle

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Can we join?

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Transfer to Kerbin

Fully fueled, and with a good ejection angle - time to go home

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And going for ejection straight away

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And maneuver around Jool

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And couple years later...

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Of course, we can't really aerocapture like this (besides, it's a bit way too fast), so...

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And now the remaining task is quite the trivial one for these shuttles

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Landing sequence

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Heat it up!

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Now just navigate to KSC

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And looks like we've bounced a bit too high

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Yeah, overshot

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Finally turning around

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Well, jets are mostly meant for this

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Touchdown!

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First, aerobrake on the other side of the planet

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Overcompensated the inclination a bit, but the speed is perfect

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And the second reentry

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Too high, too fast, too good at gliding

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Overshooting again

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Or not

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and...

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Touchdown!!!

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And mission complete!!!

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