JDP

[0.20] RemoteTech: Relay Network – V 0.5.0.1

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RemoteTech 0.3.5.3 Experimental build 1

- Now with support for staging in debris!

One of the updates I wanted to get done by 0.3.5.3 was implementing a whole new way of debris activation. Zool found a method some time ago that allowed for debris to actually keep staging information.

I've been working on an implementation of Zoolian debris activation for some time now and I think I have finally found a version of the method that I'm happy with releasing.

But since this will be a whole new activation method, I expect there to be a lot of small hidden bugs, that I probably wouldn't be able to catch by myself.

Therefore I'm releasing this experimental build of 0.3.5.3 to the community. The only thing changed in this build is the activation method, otherwise it's exactly like 0.3.5.2.

For those of you so inclined, you can download the zip file and simply overwrite your (Version 0.3.5.2) RemoteTech.dll with this one. Any bug reports or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Cheers

-JDP

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What do you mean by staging information? I thought they kept that info already.

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What do you mean by staging information? I thought they kept that info already.

Nope they didn't. In the past, activated debris had to be a single stage. That's no longer the case.

Now you can launch landers comprised of both a descent and ascent stage for example.

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Just tried 3.5.2, It renders my dialog menu buttons unclickable (Deploy solar panels, cut off fuel, etc etc) Possibly something to do with Majiirs plugins? I'm not sure. But for the time being i'll stick with 3.5.1

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Yeah, I was curious about that too with MajiirKerbalLib. Since I have ion engines that use toggles, it seemed redundant and possibly prone to conflicts. I use his kethane mod (fork), but not the other. Although, prioritized isp would be sweet.

Thanks for the experimental build, JDP. Trying it out now.

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Like to say first, great mod. Really adds to playing the game when you have to stay in contact with Kerbin.

Now to the main point, was a suggestion/request for the interplanetary dish. The one you have right now is kinda awkward to use as a relay satellite. I use the ole dynasat adapter to have my satellite point at Kerbin. I can't place the interplanetary dish right on the back of the satellite, so I have to put it out on struts to mount it. (See picture) Of course this creates a lot of weight, and in the cases where I only want one it gets the mass off center so I end up with a large error on any burn I do. It also makes any manned craft I wanna send out to that range very awkward looking. So to the point, has anyone ever made a collapsible dish that could be used in place of the larger one? If not has anyone thought of making one?

Something like this might be cool.

You could either make it as a part mounted to the side and it folds out to point at your target, like a solar panel. (Maybe figure out how the ISA dish tracks it's target and incorporate it into the dish?) If not that then you could combo it into RemoteControl module that would weigh more than the normal one, but would allow it to fold out in the same way. Thoughts?

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I'm really confused. I have two geosync satellites up right now, and both of them are oriented "up" so that way one of the 4 dishes (at 90 deg to each other) is always pointed towards Kerbin. As soon as I get out of range of the satellite from KSC, I can't "talk" to Kerbin any more. I'm using the interplanetary-class dishes.

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Is it possible to turn off the 'MechJeb triggers local command' bit? Is there an additional settings list somewhere? It kind of defeats the purpose of this mod for me, I see MechJeb as a fly-by-wire computer controlled from the ground rather than an artificial brain. I like the rules that losing radio contact puts on the game, it gives you a reason to put satellites up and to think carefully about where you put them. And the stock ASAS part is a terrible pilot.

Now MechJeb only works for me if it is taking Local Control and then I don't really need to bother with being in radio contact at all. Sorry to pick apart a fix you have just made but I would really appreciate if I could use a .cfg edit or something to make MechJeb only function if the ship has radio contact. Or if I could just download the earlier version prior to this release from somewhere, 0.3.5.1?

Apart from that I really enjoy your mod, it gives the game some kind of objective for me. If I was Squad I would ask to use your code in the stock game.

Edited by Punk
clarity

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I'm really confused. I have two geosync satellites up right now, and both of them are oriented "up" so that way one of the 4 dishes (at 90 deg to each other) is always pointed towards Kerbin. As soon as I get out of range of the satellite from KSC, I can't "talk" to Kerbin any more. I'm using the interplanetary-class dishes.

You don't have to physically point the dish at a target, use the 'Relay Settings' menu that comes up when you click the big center button. Then you select one of your dishes and the target (Mission Command). Ships lose orientation when you are no longer flying them anyway.

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OHHHHHHHHH thanks!

I thought "pointed at" meant that it was physically pointed at the target, and I was like "whoa, that's hard,"

that helps so much.

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OHHHHHHHHH thanks!

I thought "pointed at" meant that it was physically pointed at the target, and I was like "whoa, that's hard,"

that helps so much.

No worries. Yeah, given how big Minmus looks from Kerbin or even the Mun I cannot imagine how hard it would be to physically aim a dish at Jool or one of the others!

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Alright, so I have these 4 geo satellites set up, how do I use them so I can have uninterrupted coverage of something far away (Still orbiting Kerbin, just high up)

And while we're at it, what about in cases orbiting another celestial body?

Edit: Got it figured out for the second part: You make sure the ship is pointing at kerbin, and that 2 satellites around kerbin are pointing at it.

Edited by hubbazoot

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So how does the speed of light signal delay effect maneuvering with delays over a few seconds? I'd think it would be very difficult with round-trip delays over half a minute just to do simple stuff like precise attitude control without having onboard automation (And I really don't care for mechjeb; Even if I did I hear that it functions as an artificial onboard pilot instead of actual remote fly-by-wire which isn't much fun).

Which brings me to another question; How exactly is signal delay simulated? Do you simply delay the ship's response to a command by the round-trip time (As I would expect)?

I know that Duck's original plugin featured signal delay, but didn't see much mention of it in the OP for this thread.

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Is it possible to turn off the 'MechJeb triggers local command' bit? Is there an additional settings list somewhere? It kind of defeats the purpose of this mod for me, I see MechJeb as a fly-by-wire computer controlled from the ground rather than an artificial brain. I like the rules that losing radio contact puts on the game, it gives you a reason to put satellites up and to think carefully about where you put them. And the stock ASAS part is a terrible pilot.

If you read back a few pages and the change log, this is a temporary fix until he can work out how to have the command be delayed to the craft but then the craft maneuvers not be delayed. As of right now, all commands are delayed, causing problems with MechJeb. Until then, he enabled local control for MechJeb to allow MechJeb to still function properly in the interim. He will disable it again once he figures out the programming.

So how does the speed of light signal delay effect maneuvering with delays over a few seconds? I'd think it would be very difficult with round-trip delays over half a minute just to do simple stuff like precise attitude control without having onboard automation (And I really don't care for mechjeb; Even if I did I hear that it functions as an artificial onboard pilot instead of actual remote fly-by-wire which isn't much fun).

Which brings me to another question; How exactly is signal delay simulated? Do you simply delay the ship's response to a command by the round-trip time (As I would expect)?

I know that Duck's original plugin featured signal delay, but didn't see much mention of it in the OP for this thread.

This addon is a continuation of Duck's addon (as is stated on the OP). As such, it has all the base features of his addon with the additional features being added like the interplanetary dish and some code optimization. As it is still in development, see the above about why MechJeb is handled the way it is right now.

Where this addon (right now) is really good is for rovers. You send your ship to wherever using MechJeb and leave it off the Rover part so that when the rover becomes active, you are driving with rovers. In the future, when MechJeb integration is fully supported the right way, when you tell MechJeb to do something, it will not actually do that until the delay has run, just like with the real thing.

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Edit: Got it figured out for the second part: You make sure the ship is pointing at kerbin, and that 2 satellites around kerbin are pointing at it.

Good work, I have 2 stationary satellites at 90-110 odd degrees apart and one out beyond Minmus. It always has LoS to atleast one and can aim back in or out to another planet.

If you read back a few pages and the change log, this is a temporary fix until he can work out how to have the command be delayed to the craft but then the craft maneuvers not be delayed. As of right now, all commands are delayed, causing problems with MechJeb. Until then, he enabled local control for MechJeb to allow MechJeb to still function properly in the interim. He will disable it again once he figures out the programming.

Ahh awesome, I read through a few but must have missed it in the 40 pages. Thanks for clearing that up.

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I've been working a bit on the next experimental build of RemoteTech, refining the new debris activation method. One bug which I've fixed is an issue where Struts don't disconnect like they should.

Wanting to really test the method, I decided to build a really massive and strutified ship. So I recreated the Venture Star of Avatar fame. It comes complete with an interplanetary transfer stage that holds a stock 3 kerbal command pod and 3 spaceplanes perfect for landing on any body with an atmosphere.

I was able to keep it low on parts just enough so that it didn't lag too much on my pc, but still, it's a beast with about 350 parts and 9 stages (some of which are designed to be duplicated in staged, activated debris):

DkjAP.jpg

I've only tested it's transfer capabilities with Duna though. I think it could probably reach Eve as well, but Moho and Jool would maybe need a lot of extra delta V.

The transfer stage (Venture Star) comes complete with a RemoteCommand module, omnidirectional antennae, 3 dishes and one interplanetary class dish.

The three landing craft (which I dub Hammerheads) have omnidirectional antennae and 2 dishes. They are also fitted with a RemoteTech powered mk1 cockpit, so they have RemoteControl functionality.

This means that it is entirely possible to detach and land an unmanned Hammerhead remotely from the mothership if all 3 kerbals stay on board.

I think the Hammerheads might have enough delta V to reach orbit from the surface of Duna (though I haven't tested it), so the Venture star could perform a rescue mission, rescuing as much as 3 kerbals in vastly different positions on the surface, and bringing them to orbit, for later pickup by an interplanetary transfer vehicle with 3 extra seats.

It really amazed me what is made possible by the new activation method, together with the fix to allow crewless but crewable vessels to be remote controlled. You can make some pretty cool spacecraft :)

Adding example spacecraft to RemoteTech

I was thinking that I might want to bundle a couple of example craft with the next release of RemoteTech (I'd certainly want to show off the Venture Star). And I'd really love to include a couple of community created spacecraft as well.

I might create a thread in the SpaceCraft Exchange subforum especially for sharing RemoteTech spacecraft. You'd all be free to post your creations and if I want to include one of your spacecraft in RemoteTech, I'll PM you for permission.

The only recuirement for possible inclusion in RemoteTech would be that your craft use only stock and RemoteTech parts, since I would need to otherwise bundle other mods with my releases.

What do you guys think. Would you be interested in sharing your creations with the world?

-JDP

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a stupid question, how i make a satellite? i mean wich parts i need to add? just an antenna and a remote control?

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a stupid question, how i make a satellite? i mean wich parts i need to add? just an antenna and a remote control?

There's a satellite dish part.

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I'm having difficulty using this with mechjeb. My sat is 1m mechjeb, rcs tank and rcs thrusters, remotepod, fuel tank and LF engine plus two large satellite dishes and an antenna. I can't control attitude with mechjeb or satellite relay. Makes it difficult to boost from LKO to operational altitude!

Am I doing something stupid?

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Nevermind. Think its from not enough rcs thrusters and the way mechjeb gets weird controlling the satellite with rcs.

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a stupid question, how i make a satellite? i mean wich parts i need to add? just an antenna and a remote control?

Basically yes. But make sure that you're not going too far away from Kerbal Space Center (wherefrom the command signal is sent to your satellite) or that KSC is not on the other side of Kerbin from where your satellite is.

A good visual guide to your relay path is to go into map view, there you can see the signal as a blue line comming from the nearest command center, through any relay satellites that you've eventually put in orbit, and to the satellite/ship you are currently controlling.

And another tip:

If you are currently putting up satellites around Kerbin, RemoteControl and an antenna is all you'll really need. But make sure to also add a couple of satellite dishes, probable even an interplanetary class dish, to each of your satellites. You'll be glad that you did, when you one day launch satellites to Kerbins moons and beyond. :)

For more information on which parts you'll need to put on your ships and satellites, read the "which parts are needed for what" section of the OP.

I can't control attitude with mechjeb or satellite relay. Makes it difficult to boost from LKO to operational altitude!

Am I doing something stupid?

The same advice goes for you matt: Read "which parts are neede for what". Especially the last bit about allways putting RemoteSAS on debris should be relevant to your situation :)

Edited by JDP
added aditional comment

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Hey JDP, just wondering how the MechJeb thing is going? I've paused putting satellites up till it works like you intend, which I think is MechJeb works but at the stated light-speed delay and doesn't trigger Local Command? But I love the mod, when I start up again I have a ship that is going to eve with a long range commsat, an unmanned lander, 2 atmospheric airborne drones and a low altitude mapping sat.

Can't wait for the update! Cheers

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Hey JDP, just wondering how the MechJeb thing is going? I've paused putting satellites up till it works like you intend, which I think is MechJeb works but at the stated light-speed delay and doesn't trigger Local Command? But I love the mod, when I start up again I have a ship that is going to eve with a long range commsat, an unmanned lander, 2 atmospheric airborne drones and a low altitude mapping sat.

Can't wait for the update! Cheers

Getting MechJeb to work with RemoteTech would take a lot of time, effort and skill. I've talked a bit with r4m0n about it, and he doesn't have the time, and I frankly don't have the skill :).

I like your idea of having MechJeb local control be contingent on there being a connection. That will certainly be implemented in 0.3.5.3 and I still have my hopes set on making a simple flight computer built into RemoteTech. It wouldn't be nearly as fancy as MechJeb. Basically you'd just be able to tell it to maintain certain headings and burn the engines at certain time durations (or until a certain delta V is attained). A simple landing autopilot would be the next task to set, and I have some ideas on how to do it.

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That would be really awesome, JDP. :D

Right now I have to do without putting Mechjebs on my remote pods. It causes too much lag when attached to a ship with one already. So I just decouple them and do it manual for now, no biggie. Although, a simple out-of-the-way flight computer would be perfect. Here's the current setup I'm running, going to be heading to Duna soon. I already have a mothership and miner out there... but not equipped with dual RemoteTech RAT pods!

CXuzI.png

Good 'old ion engines! I modified them, of course. Don't forget this has the RT command pod. A must!

oNYkY.png

I converted the empty pod into a RT one (has a dipole antenna) , modified the cargo section to generate ZO2 (also added a Z02 support tank), the pods detach one by one.

bxpdR.png

A ton of kethane capacity. It can easily land, mine, takeoff, and refuel if it's a small moon. RT part, dipole, and smaller sat-dish.

38Ga6.png

I still need to test to see if these pods have enough fuel to land on one of Jool's moons. Mun will do fine.

Thanks again for your hard work! :)

Edit: I forgot RT SAS and had to replace the spare z02 tank with a small EPS battery (to convert krugz energy to power z02 generator). :sticktongue:

Edited by Spaceghöst
Forgot RT SAS. lol

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