JDP

[0.20] RemoteTech: Relay Network – V 0.5.0.1

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Getting MechJeb to work with RemoteTech would take a lot of time, effort and skill. I've talked a bit with r4m0n about it, and he doesn't have the time, and I frankly don't have the skill :).

I like your idea of having MechJeb local control be contingent on there being a connection. That will certainly be implemented in 0.3.5.3 and I still have my hopes set on making a simple flight computer built into RemoteTech. It wouldn't be nearly as fancy as MechJeb. Basically you'd just be able to tell it to maintain certain headings and burn the engines at certain time durations (or until a certain delta V is attained). A simple landing autopilot would be the next task to set, and I have some ideas on how to do it.

I had thought that in earlier versions that MechJeb had failed when out of radio contact already?

I put it on my main section and use the SURF function in ascent and PRO/RETRO and +/-NORM in transit, basically as a better ASAS unit with Orbital and Phase Angle info thrown in. As for detached parts, landing and flying them by hand is easy enough and part of the fun. It's just automating the boring stuff in deep space that makes the game much better, plus trying to fly a 1000+ ton near 400 part ship into orbit while watching fuel, heading, throttle and destination gets pretty hairy and you miss all the cool stage separations and scenery. Most people would use the stock ASAS to hold headings anyway, which works but is just bad and flappy.

I would ditch MechJeb altogether if you put a simple flight computer into RemoteTech, all that other stuff I don't use unless I'm messing around. Just the basic Smart A.S.S. functions and some flight data. But I have no idea about programming so it's easy to suggest stuff without knowing how much work and time it means. I guess you could ask r4m0n to borrow some code from MechJeb, but again no idea if that is even possible.

Anyway awesome work so far, like I said earlier they have gotta get your stuff into the base game because it is a really cool and fun system. Keep up the good work!

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...I guess you could ask r4m0n to borrow some code from MechJeb, but again no idea if that is even possible...

My problem with that idea was allways that I couldn't really understand most of the code. This seems to have changed a bit. Since I've just finished a prototype flight computer, based on his Smart A.S.S algorythm. Currently I've only implemented standard ASAS functionality (where you keep the heading you had when you pressed the button). But it should actually be very easy to make it point in the right directions.

Provided I get permission from r4m0n, I will certainly implement a flight computer in the next release. I might not be able to implement anything too helpful, like flight logics and a GUI, but I will be able to do 3 things:

  • Have ASAS work emidiately on debris.
  • Have ASAS work on nonfocused vessels. So you still have a stable vessel while you're on EVA.
  • Have ASAS work better than the jittery mess it is now. Damn this baby is flying smooth :D

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That would be really awesome, JDP. :D

Right now I have to do without putting Mechjebs on my remote pods. It causes too much lag when attached to a ship with one already. So I just decouple them and do it manual for now, no biggie. Although, a simple out-of-the-way flight computer would be perfect. Here's the current setup I'm running, going to be heading to Duna soon. I already have a mothership and miner out there... but not equipped with dual RemoteTech RAT pods!

CXuzI.png

Good 'old ion engines! I modified them, of course. Don't forget this has the RT command pod. A must!

oNYkY.png

I converted the empty pod into a RT one (has a dipole antenna) , modified the cargo section to generate ZO2 (also added a Z02 support tank), the pods detach one by one.

bxpdR.png

A ton of kethane capacity. It can easily land, mine, takeoff, and refuel if it's a small moon. RT part, dipole, and smaller sat-dish.

38Ga6.png

I still need to test to see if these pods have enough fuel to land on one of Jool's moons. Mun will do fine.

Thanks again for your hard work! :)

Edit: I forgot RT SAS and had to replace the spare z02 tank with a small EPS battery (to convert krugz energy to power z02 generator). :sticktongue:

Wich mods are you using there?

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Wich mods are you using there?

Heheh... the list is long so brace yourself. :P

RemoteTech Experimental Version

Cart plugin

Majiir's Kethane fork

Deep Space Mission pack

Damned robotics

Electrical Energy Plugin

EPS 0.3

Erkle Warp Clamp v5x1

FuelTransferModule

ISA_Mapsat

MechJeb

MRZ Mods (z02 add-on)

Zoxygen

Novapunch Remix pack

Orbital Construction (personal experimental version)

PowerTech_Mumech and Powertech plugin

Space station pack

VB Solar panel, ion engines, and battery

Aviation Lights

PKSMultiJointObject dll

demv_mark_4_rat (modified)

I don't use all the parts, some parts I just delete out of the packs. Lots of stuff have edited configs. Mainly just tweaked ion engines and some changes to how El Energy, EPS, and zOxygen work together. I'd like to get started on a 3d program and build my own parts, but that will take some time unfortunately.

Edited by Spaceghöst

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This addon is a continuation of Duck's addon (as is stated on the OP). As such, it has all the base features of his addon with the additional features being added like the interplanetary dish and some code optimization. As it is still in development, see the above about why MechJeb is handled the way it is right now.

Where this addon (right now) is really good is for rovers. You send your ship to wherever using MechJeb and leave it off the Rover part so that when the rover becomes active, you are driving with rovers. In the future, when MechJeb integration is fully supported the right way, when you tell MechJeb to do something, it will not actually do that until the delay has run, just like with the real thing.

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I really like this mod,but there is some things I would like to see in this mod:

-to be able to enable/disable antenna and dishs

-to be able to choose the path,even if the path is not the shortest one.

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-to be able to choose the path,even if the path is not the shortest one.

Not that that functionality wouldn't be nice, but what possible function does it serve? I'm genuinely curious.

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I really like this mod,but there is some things I would like to see in this mod:

-to be able to enable/disable antenna and dishs

-to be able to choose the path,even if the path is not the shortest one.

You can target dishes at None or nothing or whatever and disable them and if you use dishes and manually point them along the path then you can chose your route.

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There already has been, since the very first release by the way :).

the RC Antenna is specifically designed for that purpose (RC stands for RemoteControl). It's even got a tiny little antenna so it doesn't need other antennae, as long as your're somewhat close to a command station (250 km).

It's very good for rovers with a landing station close by, that can relay long range signals to it.

It's also proben itself to be very good on small satellites. But you'd need to also add an antenna to boost the antenna range a bit. The dipole antenna is the smallest, but still has a decent range.

Derp didn't see that haha. Thanks! I'm having a bit of trouble....not sure what's causing it. I'm trying to get my first satellite into orbit. To do so, I fly up a manned craft and deploy a satellite (via a mechanical decoupler courtesy of MMI). The sat has an RC module, liquid fuel, mechjeb, a 50mil dish and some RCS and solar panels. Once deployed...I can't maneuver it :( I can activate the RCS, actuate the panels, but nothing happens when I try to pitch/roll/yaw. I've downloaded 3.5.2 to no avail.

Edit:Also, I'm in kerbo-stationary orbit at 2868km and the comms status shows that I'm connected to KSC and the blue line is shown in map view...just in case that info is needed.

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Speaking of RC. Is RT supposed to disable the cart plugin menu? It does work when the craft is piloted. I don't mind, if so. I can still access everything via hotkeys. I'm modified this crewless command pod to act like the ones you made, put a dipole antenna on it, and a modified RT SAS unit on the inside of the cargo bed (used the small Mechjeb remote model.)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]34893[/ATTACH]

RC delay 0.0s: menu_disabled

Edited by Spaceghöst

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Derp didn't see that haha. Thanks! I'm having a bit of trouble....not sure what's causing it. I'm trying to get my first satellite into orbit. To do so, I fly up a manned craft and deploy a satellite (via a mechanical decoupler courtesy of MMI). The sat has an RC module, liquid fuel, mechjeb, a 50mil dish and some RCS and solar panels. Once deployed...I can't maneuver it :( I can activate the RCS, actuate the panels, but nothing happens when I try to pitch/roll/yaw. I've downloaded 3.5.2 to no avail.

Edit:Also, I'm in kerbo-stationary orbit at 2868km and the comms status shows that I'm connected to KSC and the blue line is shown in map view...just in case that info is needed.

The RemoteCommand part in the command and control tab does not have SAS functions, that is there are no Gyros in it to roll and pitch your ship. You need to either put a stock SAS unit on it or the RemoteTech SAS part which is an ASAS/SAS unit. It looks like the normal one but has a black line around it. The RCS should still be able to manouver it however which makes me think that you have it staged wrong. Make sure that all the components on your satellite are in the same stage when you activate it, I put everything in with the de-coupler.

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The RemoteCommand part in the command and control tab does not have SAS functions, that is there are no Gyros in it to roll and pitch your ship. You need to either put a stock SAS unit on it or the RemoteTech SAS part which is an ASAS/SAS unit. It looks like the normal one but has a black line around it. The RCS should still be able to manouver it however which makes me think that you have it staged wrong. Make sure that all the components on your satellite are in the same stage when you activate it, I put everything in with the de-coupler.

Just tried that out. I added the RT sas unit. I can maneuver manually, but mechjeb won't change my attitude. Also, when I command my dish to point toward something (Mun for example) it doesn't move... Gettin there slowly but surely and thanks a lot for the help Punk!

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Added compatability with MechJeb. Now MechJeb will be able to activate local control.

Uhm.. Not to be picky, but.. Can you make this feature to be easy to disable via config please? I don't really want my unmanned crafts with MechJeb on board to have such capability. They're unmanned for a reason, right? Especially, for those with AR202 no-brain case, if we're talking about roleplay or anything.

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Just tried that out. I added the RT sas unit. I can maneuver manually, but mechjeb won't change my attitude. Also, when I command my dish to point toward something (Mun for example) it doesn't move... Gettin there slowly but surely and thanks a lot for the help Punk!

The dishes don't have to physically point at anything, it just has to say it's pointed at something in the menu. They aren't animated at all to move either. Glad that the staging and SAS fixed your issues. No worries, I am having a great time with this mod so I am happy to help out. MechJeb has issues with RemoteTech at the moment, you are better to just manually operate detached ships and leave a MechJeb on the mothership for the time being.

Uhm.. Not to be picky, but.. Can you make this feature to be easy to disable via config please? I don't really want my unmanned crafts with MechJeb on board to have such capability. They're unmanned for a reason, right? Especially, for those with AR202 no-brain case, if we're talking about roleplay or anything.

I asked this a few pages back and JDP said that getting MechJeb to work properly with RemoteTech is too difficult for him and r4m0n doesn't have time to help. He is hoping to add his own 'fly-by-wire computer' to RemoteTech soon, just the Smart A.S.S. options from MechJeb but working properly with the light-speed delay and useless without radio coverage.

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I asked this a few pages back and JDP said that getting MechJeb to work properly with RemoteTech is too difficult for him and r4m0n doesn't have time to help. He is hoping to add his own 'fly-by-wire computer' to RemoteTech soon, just the Smart A.S.S. options from MechJeb but working properly with the light-speed delay and useless without radio coverage.

Uhm.. I'm currently using RemoteTech 0.3.5, and MechJeb works FINE as it is with this mod! Yes, I have to use RCS to make it work (it doesn't use torque for maneuvers somehow), but that's fine with me. The thing is, i don't want to be able to turn local control on when I have MechJeb on board. That's it. I don't need anything else ^_^

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Of course it works fine, It can't be integrated, Is what he's saying.

Yeah, this. It can't deal with the delay thing and I think getting it to work on decoupled craft is at the experimental stage. If its not in local control or at 0 delay it doesn't react to commands I think. Sometimes it just sits there doing nothing. The local command thing is a quick fix.

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A call to part modelers

In the beginnings of RemoteTech, I found myself in need of parts to run my plugin. I have just about zero skill in part modeling (the exact value fluctuates a bit, but last time it was measured it was: -0.042), so I didn't even try to go head to heads with blender. In stead I unskillfully retextured some stock parts and got a lot of help from NovaSilisko, Tosh and rkman.

Now I'm getting a bit tired of my ugly retextures and since RemoteTech has grown quite a bit in it's user base recently, I thought that some of you guys might be able to help out a bit on the development side.

If you have skill in part modeleing and think that it would be fun to create something for RemoteTech, feel free to do so and PM me the part.

The parts that I am currently looking to replace are:

  • RemoteControl
  • RemoteCommand
  • RemoteSAS

I might need an additional part: FlightComputer too. And larger editions of the parts are very very high on my wish list. I'm thinking somewhat in line with what was done with the new ASAS; make it shorter but with a larger diameter.

Rest assured that only a direct request from Squad will give me reason enough to remove the current RemotePod. I love that little feller' :)

Now for something completely different; responses

I can't seem to find my signal processor

That's probably because there are 2 different kinds of signal processors: RemoteControl and RemoteCommand. You brobably have both of them if you installed everything correctly :).

Speaking of RC. Is RT supposed to disable the cart plugin menu? It does work when the craft is piloted. I don't mind, if so. I can still access everything via hotkeys. I'm modified this crewless command pod to act like the ones you made, put a dipole antenna on it, and a modified RT SAS unit on the inside of the cargo bed (used the small Mechjeb remote model.)

It certainly isn't, and it doesn't really. The error lies with Cart, and is not actually an error at all, it was a concious choice.

I asked Tosh about exactly this issue sometime back, it was completely intentionally done by him. It seems he couldn't find a way of detecting if a vessel was crewable, so he just completely removed the context menu once no crew was detected. Back then, a crewable but uncrewed vessel could not be controlled, period. But of course now things have changed quite a bit, Alchemist, Kreuzung and myself saw to that :D.

Since Tosh is no longer an active developer, don't expect a fix to be coming out anytime soon (read: at all).

Someone else would have to pick up the mantle and start their own Cart plugin based on his (much like I did with The-Ducks plugin)

(hintedy, hint, hint Spaceghȫst :))

But don't overdo anything. I've heard whispers of Squad possibly implementing something very much exactly like the Cart plugin in stock KSP.

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Yeah, this. It can't deal with the delay thing and I think getting it to work on decoupled craft is at the experimental stage. If its not in local control or at 0 delay it doesn't react to commands I think. Sometimes it just sits there doing nothing. The local command thing is a quick fix.

Hm.. It works for me, with 0.3 sec delay, on decoupled craft with RemoteTech command module (Remote Control), but only with RCS on. I haven't tried to go farther away yet tho. Here's the pic. It's 0.3.5. And, again, it has no other command module, just Remote Control.

Edited by macegee

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Someone else would have to pick up the mantle and start their own Cart plugin based on his (much like I did with The-Ducks plugin)

Sadly, I don't understand how KSPField and KSPEvents works very well atm. I'll go re-read the tutorial on it later, including another C# lesson.

Also, the cart works on an uncrewed pod so long as it has RT attached. It's just the context menu that is disabled, not the controls. Looking through the code, all controls were specifically coded to incur relay delay through RT, if the need ever arise. So what confuses me in this instance is whether this code is supposed to disable complete control if a crewable pod is crewless, because RT will still control the cart as long as you have a relay signal (and necessary parts of course).


// crew don't count there. Just disable controls if the vessel
// needs crew, but does not have one (KSP issue: it blocks control
// axes in such a case).
controllable = hasRemoteControlRoute && ( hasCrew || !needsCrew );
else
// vessel's under local control, if there is
// - either crew on-board,
// - or no need in crew, and
// - either MechJeb,
// - or unmanned command pod.
controllable = hasCrew || ( ( hasMechJeb || hasCommandPod ) && !needsCrew );

controllable = controllable && part.vessel && part.vessel.isActiveVessel;
if( onRemoteControl ) 

Should this stop RT control of a crewless pod or am I reading this wrong? Cause I can control it, as described above.

Anyway, no big deal. Not like this part has anything to do with the menu, granted the part afterwards does, that's where it gets into KSPField stuff. Just curious. :confused:

Edited by Spaceghöst

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Sadly, I don't understand how KSPField and KSPEvents works very well atm. I'll go re-read the tutorial on it later, including another C# lesson.

Don't sweat. I don't understand KSPEvents either. I've gotten them to work in the latest testbuild though. Althoug they at first caused major problems in crewable empty pods.

Indeed it seems like the error is localized to the CartVesselState class. It should actually be easy enough to fix though. Just browsong through I found a way to make it completely RT compatible. The problem is that doing this easy fix:


if( onRemoteControl )
controllable = hasRemoteControlRoute;
else
controllable = true;

will render cart unusable with anything but RemoteTech. Some more in-depth work needs to be done. But it seems that the controllable bool is the guilty culprit that needs to be fixed.

If someone want's to give the Cart plugin a go, I'd advice also looking at the two bools: hasCrew and needsCrew... check if they are always calculated corectly. It's just a hunch, but I think they might not be.

I won't have time to do this, I have yet another exam, and once that's done, I'll have plenty of work with the flight computer. Plus, I've rewritten the way dish and antenna information is stored in the persistence file. So that will require some testing. At the moment, it doesn't seem like the rewrite will break persistence in a game ending way (you might have to cycle through all your satellites and then resetup your networks) But I'll let you know if you need to be careful.

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Thanks for the pointers, JDP! :cool:

I will certainly look in that direction and hopefully come up with something. Can't wait to see the new update, regardless of having to re-deploy my sats. Progress is worth it!

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Congratulations on the 0.5.0.0 release =D.

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