Help needed finding/learning how to mak a3d part and iva

[nascarlaser1]

Hi guys!

I am attempting to make my first part for a  part mods I am hopefully going to make in the future (and for my own use of course). I have the configuration file for my first part already written

config located here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162551-part-config-file-for-basic-part-moddingcreating/

Now I need help finding and/or learning how to create a 3d object and an IVA for my part. As explained in the above link this current part that I am working on is a simple mk2 lander can that is able to contain up to 3 Kerbals rather then 2. I would use the stock lander can IVA but @TheRagingIrishman pointed out that only 2 out of 3 my Kerbals would appear, and I don't know if this would end up breaking my game/part at all. Is there an official thread with a list of ready to use IVAs anywhere on the forums, and if not how would I go about either finding one off the forum or making my own? I also have absolutely  0 3d modeling experience what so ever (not counting playing with clay in real life) and my drawing skills are poor. The only online drawing is in paint and it included a lot of stick figures and was 2d and in no way detailed (I was bored one day and doodled)

 

Thanks!

Edited July 3, 2017 by nascarlaser1

[Red Iron Crown]

Moved over to Add-On Development for you.

[nascarlaser1]

1 minute ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Moved over to Add-On Development for you.

Thanks @Red Iron Crown!

[Stone Blue]

Some people will tell you to start with Blender, which is fine, but I'd say start with Wings3D and the awesome tutorial by Beale for your first few parts... Once you master this, then I'd say maybe switch to Blender...
By the way, IIRC, @Beale has, and continues, to use Wings3D to create all of his great mods (ie Tantares )...
So dont let anyone tell you Wings3D is too "basic" or "simple", to create awesome mods with...

The tutorial:
 

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Stone Blue

[nascarlaser1]

I'm back! I finished building my gray model in wings 3d... but now I have 0 idea how to texture it and make it look... well.. not gray . I tried following the tutorial above but it got a bit confusing. Can someone help please? Thanks!

[artwhaley]

And... that brings you to my only counter against what @Stone Blue suggests...  the reason I recommend blender is that there are more of us who use it and more tutorials on the internet for it than there are for Wings.  

I don't have the first clue where to start on helping, but the people who DO will need a bit more information about where you're at, I think.   Do you have the model unwrapped and feel good about that part?  Do you plan to paint the texture entirely in an image program?  If so, which one.  Does Wings have facility for more 'procedural' textures applied with different mappings?  Can you post some pictures of current status?

 

 Those sorts of things will help people figure out what the first thing you need advice on is!  

[nascarlaser1]

14 hours ago, artwhaley said:

And... that brings you to my only counter against what @Stone Blue suggests...  the reason I recommend blender is that there are more of us who use it and more tutorials on the internet for it than there are for Wings.  

I don't have the first clue where to start on helping, but the people who DO will need a bit more information about where you're at, I think.   Do you have the model unwrapped and feel good about that part?  Do you plan to paint the texture entirely in an image program?  If so, which one.  Does Wings have facility for more 'procedural' textures applied with different mappings?  Can you post some pictures of current status?

 

 Those sorts of things will help people figure out what the first thing you need advice on is!  

1. I feel good about what the part looks like as a grey model (its just a small cylinder with 2 rectangles on the side to act as windows, like the regular lander cans).

2. Uhh...  what does unwrapped mean?

3. I was either going to use MS paint (the only drawing program I know how to use) or find a premade texture somewhere online or on the forums and use that. My goal is to make it look stockalike, so that it fits right in.

4. What does procedural texture and different mappings mean?

5. I can post pictures either later today or sometime on Friday.

thxs!

[Stevie_D]

Youtube is your friend when learning how to model in any 3d app, or texture in your app of choice. I wish i had that as a resource when i first learned. 

Search "unwrapping my 3d model" or "Unwrapping UVs" with your application of choice on youtube and you will quickly and easily find everything you need to know, and most likely for that specific program of choice to boot.

But to answer your question quickly - Unwrapping is when you "unwrap" the polygons of the model you made and arrange them into what is called a UV map - Essentially a square texture template that has every polygon of your model laid out for you to use as a guideline to paint over and create your texture from.

This image is taken from a tutorial im working on, but shows what an unwrapped model looks like.

 

Now procedural texturing isnt something to even care about most likely. Its basically a texture that is used when procedurally generating a model ingame that changes (like a fairing) so honestly dont give it a second thought, you wont likely ever need to look into it, and if you do - then by then you'll have learned enough already to know what it is.

 

The best personal advice i can give you when starting out in 3d modelling and modding is - Do not worry too much about the quality of the finished product. Yes, try to make it the best you can, but dont beat yourself up if it doesn't look professional quality or works perfectly the first time. When you start out, learning and getting better/used to how things work is more important in the short term.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Stevie_D

[nascarlaser1]

As requested by @artwhaley and promised by me, here is a picture of my current model in wings 3d. The two rectangles on the side will be the windows like on the stock lander cans.

 

[artwhaley]

@Stevie_D   Thank you so much for interpreting my post a bit!   It was late and I was vague!  And that one image carries SO much great information. I am really looking forward to you finishing that tutorial!   Please make sure it gets to the tutorials sticky!  

Yes, unwrapping is going to be your next step.   When you look at someone else's texture, you can see that different parts of the image relate to different parts of the model.  Here's the part in Beale's tutorial where he starts showing that being done. The top of the second post walks you through where to start in Wings 3D apparently!

 I don't think I used the right term when I asked about procedural textures.  I was really asking about whether you planned to paint it flat, or use the materials and shaders in your 3D program to 'generate' it.  It's possible (I assume this is true in Wings 3D at least, it is in other 3D applications!) to apply materials to the model and let the 3D program curve them and place them and repeat them across your model then 'bake' that to the unwrapped 2D image that you'll load into the game.   For a first part, just painting onto the image is probably easier, like you're planning.  That said, you will find a 3D application that DOESN'T handle layers to be VERY limiting VERY quickly, in my experience at least.  

For example...  If I was starting texturing your lander can I'd

1. Lay down a base layer of white or grey or whatever the color should be with a bit of surface texture, then

2. On a layer or layers above that I'd want to add details - lines where panels meet, rivets, painted features like flags or vessel names, the window glass texture etc.   Then

3. Over the top I might add a nearly transparent 'grunge map' or 'noise map' that would add subtle scratches, dirty spots blemishes, shadows - things that make it feel more real.  

You could do all of that in paint, but a program with layers lets you get to nearly the end and realize you wanted to change something at the beginning, and you still can without redoing your work!  I am a photoshop guy, so find Gimp counter intuitive, but https://www.getpaint.net/  is a free online photoshop -like application that handles layers and filters!

Overall... don't get discouraged!   Your part's starting to look good!   Keep at it!  There is ALWAYS more to learn about modding, so you'll never really 'have it'!   But that's what makes it fun...  you keep learning new things all the time!  

Edited July 5, 2017 by artwhaley

[nascarlaser1]

3 hours ago, artwhaley said:

@Stevie_D   Thank you so much for interpreting my post a bit!   It was late and I was vague!  And that one image carries SO much great information. I am really looking forward to you finishing that tutorial!   Please make sure it gets to the tutorials sticky!  

Yes, unwrapping is going to be your next step.   When you look at someone else's texture, you can see that different parts of the image relate to different parts of the model.  Here's the part in Beale's tutorial where he starts showing that being done. The top of the second post walks you through where to start in Wings 3D apparently!

 I don't think I used the right term when I asked about procedural textures.  I was really asking about whether you planned to paint it flat, or use the materials and shaders in your 3D program to 'generate' it.  It's possible (I assume this is true in Wings 3D at least, it is in other 3D applications!) to apply materials to the model and let the 3D program curve them and place them and repeat them across your model then 'bake' that to the unwrapped 2D image that you'll load into the game.   For a first part, just painting onto the image is probably easier, like you're planning.  That said, you will find a 3D application that DOESN'T handle layers to be VERY limiting VERY quickly, in my experience at least.  

For example...  If I was starting texturing your lander can I'd

1. Lay down a base layer of white or grey or whatever the color should be with a bit of surface texture, then

2. On a layer or layers above that I'd want to add details - lines where panels meet, rivets, painted features like flags or vessel names, the window glass texture etc.   Then

3. Over the top I might add a nearly transparent 'grunge map' or 'noise map' that would add subtle scratches, dirty spots blemishes, shadows - things that make it feel more real.  

You could do all of that in paint, but a program with layers lets you get to nearly the end and realize you wanted to change something at the beginning, and you still can without redoing your work!  I am a photoshop guy, so find Gimp counter intuitive, but https://www.getpaint.net/  is a free online photoshop -like application that handles layers and filters!

Overall... don't get discouraged!   Your part's starting to look good!   Keep at it!  There is ALWAYS more to learn about modding, so you'll never really 'have it'!   But that's what makes it fun...  you keep learning new things all the time!  

Thxs! 1 question. Could gimp get the job done in theory? I already have MS paint and Gimp installed on my computer, so if it is possible I'll try and do it on gimp before I install more things.

[artwhaley]

Gimp will TOTALLY get the job done!  It's great software made by great people, I've just never learned to use it!  

[Stevie_D]

Like Art says, Gimp will get the job done. It probably has more functionality for creating textures than MS paint does. Although it does have some funny quirks, it's easily the best free paint program out there.

Quote

And that one image carries SO much great information. I am really looking forward to you finishing that tutorial!   Please make sure it gets to the tutorials sticky!  

 

@artwhaley, hopefully ill get it sticked heh. The reason i've not finished it yet is because i've turned it into a youtube video, since i think that  conveys the techniques across better. Still finishing it up, but it shouldn't be too far off being uploaded now.

[nascarlaser1]

Can someone help me make the UV map of my model please? I tried using the tutorial but it got too confusing/difficult since my model a bigger variety of parts. Here is the download link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jfz20my8znf2512/Landercan 2.1 model.wings?dl=0

Requires the newest version of wings3d to use it.

[steedcrugeon]

I do not wish to sound derogatory in any way but if I were you, before I do a UV unwrap and texture on something complex like a lander can I'd go back and model yourself a very simple fuel tank (I think pretty much everyone how hasn't unwrapped a UV starts out with a fuel tank, I know I did). It may come across as something overly simplistic and you might think what the point of this, "I can just do a part I want to release" but I cannot stress enough how much you learn from doing the simple fuel tank tutorial.

The model maybe 'simple' and the texture might be 'simple' and the UV might be 'simple' but you learn what 'workflow' will work for you. everyone makes parts differently. I've even changed how I've make mods mid project, partly because of new tricks I've learned and partly from advice from others.

The UV unwrapping is often the most difficult part and many great models have not made it through to the game because their owners have not (for whatever reason) been able to unwrap the UV. which means no texture and ultimately no Mod.

So set some time aside, grab a huge mug of coffee (or your other favourite beverage to aid with concentration) and learn the dark art that is UV unwrapping.

[Stevie_D]

Mr Steed speaks much wisdom.

The more basic the model, the easier it is to understand and learn UV mapping. Once you do, you'll find it opens up a whole new world of how you create your models too. Where you can repeat parts of the texture and save space, and also increase resolution.

[nascarlaser1]

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 2:45 AM, steedcrugeon said:

I do not wish to sound derogatory in any way but if I were you, before I do a UV unwrap and texture on something complex like a lander can I'd go back and model yourself a very simple fuel tank (I think pretty much everyone how hasn't unwrapped a UV starts out with a fuel tank, I know I did). It may come across as something overly simplistic and you might think what the point of this, "I can just do a part I want to release" but I cannot stress enough how much you learn from doing the simple fuel tank tutorial.

The model maybe 'simple' and the texture might be 'simple' and the UV might be 'simple' but you learn what 'workflow' will work for you. everyone makes parts differently. I've even changed how I've make mods mid project, partly because of new tricks I've learned and partly from advice from others.

The UV unwrapping is often the most difficult part and many great models have not made it through to the game because their owners have not (for whatever reason) been able to unwrap the UV. which means no texture and ultimately no Mod.

So set some time aside, grab a huge mug of coffee (or your other favourite beverage to aid with concentration) and learn the dark art that is UV unwrapping.

I tried it out with a simple cylinder, and it still got the same effect . I cant unselect the rectangles after making htem all go to the center .

[NISSKEPCSIM]

If pressing space in Wings 3D won't deselect parts, try hovering your mouse above the "UV Mapping" window while doing it. You might deselect everything in the regular window, and then you can select each face on the 3D model that corresponds to a component on your UV map. Or, if none of the above is working, try manually deselecting the faces outside of the "UV Mapping" window, on the model itself, by simply clicking the faces.

I hope that helped.  I myself just copied @Beale's tutorial step-for-step, and now, in less than 2 weeks, I'm familiar enough with modelling, texturing, and importing that I've started my own mod.

Edited July 23, 2017 by NISSKEPCSIM

[Bottle Rocketeer 500]

@nascarlaser1 Once you start using Blender for 3D modelling, rememdlber one tip, always UV unwrap  manually, NEVER use autoUV!

[NISSKEPCSIM]

@nascarlaser1 Do you still require help?

[nascarlaser1]

7 hours ago, NISSKEPCSIM said:

@nascarlaser1 Do you still require help?

not right now. sadly my copy of wings3d is glitched (wont let me create the dumb UV map). and I don't have the real life time to reinstall the thing all over again (I have really slow downloads). I am going to make a different mod and try to retexture stock parts to fit in.

If you'd like to try to help with that other project:

Note: This deals with actual coding and not the model making/texturing.

[SpaceMouse]

Many people have mentioned various 3D programs, I also started with Wings3D but it's rather limited. Blender is a incredibly powerful program that can even make a whole game if your patient enough.

I like this tutorial series:

Kerbal parts are a good place to start because they're relatively simple. If and when you love into anything more complex, stockpile lots of reference photos of whatever it is.

Blender also has some very good UV (texture) mapping tools.

Edited October 3, 2017 by SpaceMouse

[Fengist]

12 hours ago, SpaceMouse said:

Many people have mentioned various 3D programs, I also started with Wings3D but it's rather limited. Blender is a incredibly powerful program that can even make a whole game if your patient enough.

And if Blender didn't feel bass ackward when you try to do anything, I'd probably be using it.  Unfortunately, I'm right handed and right brained and Blender is left handed right brained.  At least when I right click in Wings, it brings up a menu like it's supposed to.

And if you don't have the time to resinstall Wings then you definitely won't have the time to install Blender.  It's much larger than Wings.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Fengist

[harrisjosh2711]

2 hours ago, Fengist said:

And if Blender didn't feel bass ackward when you try to do anything, I'd probably be using it.  Unfortunately, I'm right handed and right brained and Blender is left handed right brained.  At least when I right click in Wings, it brings up a menu like it's supposed to.

And if you don't have the time to resinstall Wings then you definitely won't have the time to install Blender.  It's much larger than Wings.

Why trash a program just because you don't know how to use it right?

[Fengist]

3 hours ago, harrisjosh2711 said:

Why trash a program just because you don't know how to use it right?

Ummm because it's bass ackward???