Galileo

[1.3.1] Rescale! Comprehensive SD Configs [1.0.2.8] [03 Dec 2017]

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29 minutes ago, Tyko said:

What still confuses me is why the two versions aren't aligned with each other. There will be a ghost mountain above a lunar plain. Seems like if they were just high-res and low-res versions they should line up with each other.

It might just be the viewing angle.  When near a body, i.e. 25-30 km, the horizon is much closer then when we're at a high altitude.  It could be that the mountains you're seeing in the ScaledVersion are over the horizon of the PQS.  As the altitude increases, the PQS horizon moves farther away.  Perhaps at 100+ km the previously "over the horizon" terrain will come into view to where the PQS becomes a closer match to the ScaledVersion.

The above is just a guess.  I really don't know enough about how it works to say for sure.  It could be that there's more to the problem than I thought.
 

Edited by OhioBob

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31 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

It might just be the viewing angle.  When near a body, i.e. 25-30 km, the horizon is much closer then when we're at a high altitude.  It could be that the mountains you're seeing in the ScaledVersion are over the horizon of the PQS.  As the altitude increases, the PQS horizon moves farther away.  Perhaps at 100+ km the previously "over the horizon" terrain will come into view to where the PQS becomes a closer match to the ScaledVersion.

The above is just a guess.  I really don't know enough about how it works to say for sure.  It could be that there's more to the problem than I thought.
 

Could be. Most of my testing is at about 31000m and when I go to 10x time acceleration it becomes easier to "map" what my brain is seeing to possible perspective errors and I'm pretty sure they're not aligned.

Are there two different textures for ScaledVersion and PQS? If so, where are they referenced and how do they get mapped to the planetary surface? Maybe I could dig into it and see if one is getting twisted somehow.

Edited by Tyko

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16 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Are there two different textures for ScaledVersion and PQS? If so, where are they referenced and how do they get mapped to the planetary surface? Maybe I could dig into it and see if one is getting twisted somehow.

The scaled version is just a color map and a normal map.

		ScaledVersion
		{
			Material
			{
				texture = path/colorMap
				normals = path/normalMap
			}
		}

The PQS is a lot more complicated.  It can be just a height map and a color map, but often there are additional PQSmods that contribute to a planet's terrain.  There are all types of PQSmods that can add height noise, craters, color, etc.  Virtually an entire planetary surface can be generated using PQSmods.

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@Tyko, I wonder what would happen if you just did a terrain offset.  Try something like this:

@Kopernicus:AFTER[GPP]
{
	@Body[Iota]
	{
		@PQS
		{
			@Mods
			{	
				VertexHeightOffset
				{
					offset = 2000	// any positive or negative number, will move terrain upwards or downwards
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

If it changes both PQS and ScaledVersion, then you'll gain nothing.  But if it changes one and not the other, maybe you can get the radii of the rims to match.

(I'm starting to grasp at straws.)

(edit)  Adding the above means that you should also delete the cache before restarting the game.

(edit 2)  This might not work on oceans worlds because it could change sea level.   It would have to be tested.

 

Edited by OhioBob

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Hmm. Inside the configs I find a lot of
NEEDS[SigDim,GPP]

Does that mean

  1. wrong, GPP has to be deleted from the configs
  2. right, this only works with GPP as dependency

??
:sticktongue:

Edited by Gordon Dry

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1 hour ago, Gordon Dry said:

Hmm. Inside the configs I find a lot of
NEEDS[SigDim,GPP]

Does that mean

  1. wrong, GPP has to be deleted from the configs
  2. right, this only works with GPP as dependency

??
:sticktongue:

It means the patch will only run if both Sigma Dimensions and GPP are installed. Likely because it is not needed unless you are using GPP.

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4 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

Hmm. Inside the configs I find a lot of
NEEDS[SigDim,GPP]

Does that mean

  1. wrong, GPP has to be deleted from the configs
  2. right, this only works with GPP as dependency

??
:sticktongue:

Settings for Sigma Dimensions can be global or planet specific.  So what you are seeing are planet specific settings that apply only to GPP.  For everything else, the global settings are used.  The global settings are the stuff at the beginning of the config inside the @SigmaDimensions{} node.  All the GPP stuff doesn't do anything unless GPP is installed.  And when GPP is installed, the planet specific settings take precedence over the global settings.

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So 6.4x version works almost fine with KSP 1.5.1 and Kopernicus-1.5.1-1 but for some reason FPS drops to unplayable level ON THE SURFACE of Mun. Does anyone have the same problem? Any solutions?

Edited by Nathanson

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On 10/23/2017 at 2:12 PM, Galileo said:

This is something that has been around for a long time now with scaled systems. Unfortunately, there isn’t anything I can do, and I always tell people to disable rescue missions with contract configurator. There isn’t a parameter I can change to raise the altitude. 

I realize this is an old post that I'm replying to, but there are two things that can be done here

For planets with atmospheres, the minimum orbit is linked to atmosphereDepth (radius + atmosphereDepth). if atmosphereDepth doesn't accurately reflect where the edge of the atmosphere is then you get  can contract orbits inside the atmosphere.  (assuming that the value for this is less than the altitude of the edge of space)

For planets without an atmosphere things get tricky. First the highest peak of the airless planet is found. Then the code runs through timewarpAltitudeLimits and finds an altitude in that list that is higher than the highest peak and returns that value + radius. Most of the time that's ok but it can result in orbits which are dangerously close to the highest terrain and the orbit could clip something even off rails. timewarpAltitudeLimits should be scaled by the rescale value to avoid this.

These are the things I have done to my installation to avoid impossible rescue missions. (sanitize atmosphereDepth and rescale timewarpAltitudeLimits)

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On 11/25/2018 at 3:36 PM, Starwaster said:

I realize this is an old post that I'm replying to, but there are two things that can be done here

For planets with atmospheres, the minimum orbit is linked to atmosphereDepth (radius + atmosphereDepth). if atmosphereDepth doesn't accurately reflect where the edge of the atmosphere is then you get  can contract orbits inside the atmosphere.  (assuming that the value for this is less than the altitude of the edge of space)

For planets without an atmosphere things get tricky. First the highest peak of the airless planet is found. Then the code runs through timewarpAltitudeLimits and finds an altitude in that list that is higher than the highest peak and returns that value + radius. Most of the time that's ok but it can result in orbits which are dangerously close to the highest terrain and the orbit could clip something even off rails. timewarpAltitudeLimits should be scaled by the rescale value to avoid this.

These are the things I have done to my installation to avoid impossible rescue missions. (sanitize atmosphereDepth and rescale timewarpAltitudeLimits)

That sounds awesome! Rescue contracts were somewhat doable in 2.5x but instafail half the time in 3.2x :( 

I can't quite figure how to do what you did. Mind breaking it down for dummies?

 

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I am really enjoying playing in a scaled up Kerbin system (loving the challenge of 6.4x with stock balanced parts!),  but does anyone have any tips to firm up the ground so that my kerbs aren't sinking into or floating above surfaces? 

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3 hours ago, New Horizons said:

Does this mod scale spaceAltitudeThreshold, too? Is there a way to avoid this?

This mod doesn't per se, but I'm pretty sure Sigma Dimensions does.  SD changes stuff like the flying and space thresholds, time warp limits, etc.  There is no specific setting for it, but it's linked by some formula to other settings, such as the resize factor.  It's all internal, I doubt there is anything you can do to stop it.  However, you can write a config to change it back to whatever you want it to be after SD has done its thing.  For instance, the following should change Kerbin's space threshold back to its original 250,000 meters.

@Kopernicus:AFTER[SigDim]
{
	@Body[Kerbin]
	{
		@Properties
		{
			@ScienceValues
			{
				@spaceAltitudeThreshold = 250000
			}
		}
	}
}


 

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I clearly see this doesn’t work with 1.4. So obviously it doesn’t work with 1.6, correct?

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18 minutes ago, dylsh said:

I clearly see this doesn’t work with 1.4. So obviously it doesn’t work with 1.6, correct?

It is unfortunate that the thread title is out of date. It works perfectly fine with current versions. In fact, most MM or part only mods work fine in 1.6. This is a bit of a special case, interacting with SD, but as it is up to date... rescale away!

tldr, the thread name doesn't have a link to compatibility. When in doubt, try it! (On a new save!) it often works more times than it doesn't. 

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11 hours ago, dylsh said:

I clearly see this doesn’t work with 1.4. So obviously it doesn’t work with 1.6, correct?

komodo is correct at every point. SD never broke. When in doubt, scrub the thread or try the mod and confirm it, rather than doing as everyone else does and only asking if it still works.

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Thanks you both for the speedy answer. I appreciate it. Happy launching

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Posted (edited)
On 8/2/2017 at 4:30 AM, Galileo said:

Quote of the original post in this thread snipped.

 

How bout ksp 1.6.1?

Edited by James Kerman
redacted by a moderator

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36 minutes ago, PatelPratham said:

How bout ksp 1.6.1?

Works fine.

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34 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Works fine.

How well is it implemented into career mode. Can I play career mode with this like I could in the normal stock game?

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Posted (edited)
On 8/2/2017 at 4:30 AM, Galileo said:

Quote of the original post in this thread snipped.

 

What are the specifications for each scale

for example what is the delta v needed to reach orbit with the following scales. How big is the earth. Where does the atmosphere end and space begin. All these questions if you know what I mean 

 

I would like to know that info about the following scales 

10x

10.625x

Edited by James Kerman
redacted by a moderator

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, PatelPratham said:

What are the specifications for each scale

for example what is the delta v needed to reach orbit with the following scales. How big is the earth. Where does the atmosphere end and space begin. All these questions if you know what I mean 

 

I would like to know that info about the following scales 

10x

10.625x

Please stop quoting the entire OP.

i do not have a dV map for you

the size of Earth? This does not work with RSS so I assume you mean Kerbin. You can find that info in the MM cache after the game is run, but really it’s just a little math to figure that out. 600km x 10 or 10.625. 

Same thing with the atmosphere. You can find the info in the MM cache after the game is run.

the other questions, you will need to play and figure out, man.

Edited by Galileo

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@PatelPratham, delta-v is proportional to the square root of the rescale/resize factor.  So for a 10x system, the delta-v is increase by a factor of 10^0.5 = 3.16 over what it is at 1x.

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On 4/3/2019 at 9:46 AM, PatelPratham said:

What are the specifications for each scale

for example what is the delta v needed to reach orbit with the following scales. How big is the earth. Where does the atmosphere end and space begin. All these questions if you know what I mean 

 

I would like to know that info about the following scales 

10x

10.625x

Don't know about 10x, but it's about 9000 deltaV for a low Kerbin orbit in 10.625x (I'm using Gravity Turn so the number may be lower than launching manually).

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