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Shuttle Challenge v5 - The STS thread [Stock and Mod Friendly] - MAJOR CHALLENGE ANNOUNCEMENT! - 30.3.2020


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Hi guys, I'm still here. I took a break from working on my potato harvester for a bit out of frustration, but I think I may have it solved now. I still need to run more tests, but hopefully I'll have a mission posted before long.

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@michal.don

Hey, I'm the guy that posted the canadarm a few months back. With that guy doing the hubble repair mission, I thought of a mission idea for my arm!

 

A Hubble servicing mission! (Woo exciting seeing as I spoiled it in the previous sentence)

It could be a solar array repair, or even a gyro repair if you build Hubble with modular sas units.

Basically use the arm to retrieve hubble, place it in the bay, and then use the arm or mmu's to move the replacements around.

Heck you could even use it for a total retrieval mission. (IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!)

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Alright, the "day-or-two" took me a week again... I should really reevaluate my time estimates :D 

 

On 3/18/2019 at 2:24 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

Mun STS-1 completed.   Research station deployed with 3 kerbals.

This mission was a bit for you - I guess the aerospike-vector combination is not the easiest to handle in different atmospheric conditions. And watching the munar surface ballet with the external tank was really amusing :) Other that that, I'd like to say I like the base design and the compact cargo-packing as well. Very nice mission, and a well earned badge for you:

4sNovfh.jpg?1

 

On 3/22/2019 at 11:00 PM, Legoprodigy said:

Guess ill have to re-earn my badge with an MK2 shuttle

Sure, your shuttles are always very welcome here :)

On 3/23/2019 at 12:01 AM, sturmhauke said:

Hi guys, I'm still here. I took a break from working on my potato harvester for a bit out of frustration, but I think I may have it solved now. I still need to run more tests, but hopefully I'll have a mission posted before long.

no worries, take all the time you need :)

 

3 hours ago, Dman Revolution said:

Hey, I'm the guy that posted the canadarm a few months back. With that guy doing the hubble repair mission, I thought of a mission idea for my arm!

Hey there :)

I must admit, I do not have as much time as I would like, so I can't promise anything about creating this new mission any time soon. But don't wory, I have not forgotten your robo-arm design! :)

 

Michal.don

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Alright guys, a small announcement regarding this thread.

Since my time has really become a problem for the challenge, I'll take a bit of a break. Don't worry, the challenge will continue, It just won't be me doing the reviewing for the time being.

I asked @4x4cheesecake (if you've been here for a while you surely know him ;) ), if he would be willing to take over the thread for a while and I'm very glad that he accepted - the challenge will be in very good hands.

It's not a reboot just yet - I intend to come back in a while, when (and if) my time issues get sorted out a bit.

So, be nice to @4x4cheesecake, keep building and flying awesome stuff, I'll be watching ;)

Michal.don

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I for one don't have anything ready. My STS-9 can survive reentry with a simulated Class C asteroid (actually a procedural tank), but then it flips upside down due to the drag and can't right itself. I'll either have to downgrade to a Class B or try something bonkers...

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10 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

I'll either have to downgrade to a Class B or try something bonkers...

Go for a class E astroid and just put your shuttle on top of it like others have done it with jeb :confused:

But seriously, class C is already huge and massive and in my experience, a simluated astroid is even easier to handle than a real one. I remember that I had to fly sideways during a test because the astroid created lift in starboard direction o_O

So, nothing wrong about "downgrading" to class B or even class A, it is still a tough challenge ;)

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On 3/27/2019 at 2:35 AM, Dman Revolution said:

@michal.don

Hey, I'm the guy that posted the canadarm a few months back. With that guy doing the hubble repair mission, I thought of a mission idea for my arm!

 

A Hubble servicing mission! (Woo exciting seeing as I spoiled it in the previous sentence)

It could be a solar array repair, or even a gyro repair if you build Hubble with modular sas units.

Basically use the arm to retrieve hubble, place it in the bay, and then use the arm or mmu's to move the replacements around.

Heck you could even use it for a total retrieval mission. (IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!)

@4x4cheesecake

I don't know if you saw this, but if you have time maybe we can look at designing a challenge together using my arm?

(its a subassembly with all of its ports attached to the wide I beam at the base of the arm)

AYmqTaH.jpgEuY1SYI.jpg

Edited by Dman Revolution
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1 hour ago, Dman Revolution said:

I don't know if you saw this, but if you have time maybe we can look at designing a challenge together using my arm?

(its a subassembly with all of its ports attached to the wide I beam at the base of the arm)

Yes, I know your arm and I'm still very impressed but I also remember the answer of michal.don when you asked the first time for making a mission:

Quote

While I really like it, I probably won't make it a requirement for a mission. But, if you are willing to do so, I could share it here as a subassembly for people to use, if they like. All credit for the arm would of course go to you   

And I'm not going to override his decision for a simple reason:

Since michal.don took over this challenge, the missions and rules changed in a way to allow creativity and minimize restrictions. While your arm is a great example of creativity, enforcing the usage of it in a mission would be a big restriction as well.
I personally like the way the missions are designed right now and I'm not going to change anything about it, so I'm sorry but I'm not interested in creating a mission which utilizes your arm.

Of course, you can perform the exsisting missions and use your arm there :)

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1 hour ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Yes, I know your arm and I'm still very impressed but I also remember the answer of michal.don when you asked the first time for making a mission:

Ya know what, you're right. I actually completely forgot about that comment. Ignore previous posts lol

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On 3/28/2019 at 11:59 AM, sturmhauke said:

I for one don't have anything ready. My STS-9 can survive reentry with a simulated Class C asteroid (actually a procedural tank), but then it flips upside down due to the drag and can't right itself. I'll either have to downgrade to a Class B or try something bonkers...

Take a look at what I did by adding a small tug to the potato.  

I also remember someone who did this by dropping the potato to the side of the runway before landing.  Kind of like bowling.

Edited by linuxgurugamer
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Hey all,

I've been working on a new srb design. It has an outer shell and then a cluster of srbs as the "core". The core srbs are all configured to essentially go through thrust tail off through the launch. They were built separately then the core was placed in the shell. This is what I have so far:

eQcZuD7.jpg

 

It no longer shakes itself to pieces from all the clipping, but its horribly aerodynamically unstable. My previous variant had a bunch of control surfaces at the base of the srb moving the Center of pressure down keeping it stable. Due to the fairings and their crazy body lift even if I add a reasonable amount of control surfaces it still doesn't help.

 

BESPmha.jpg

(Those ants are to simulate lox venting and are surface attached to the vectors)kwk3tWb.jpg

 

 

Does anyone have any ideas on how to stabilize this new design more? The fairings are the only difference between this version and the older one.

Edited by Dman Revolution
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I believe people have done something similar in the past, but I don't know any details. It was also several versions ago.

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Take a look at what I did by adding a small tug to the potato.  

I also remember someone who did this by dropping the potato to the side of the runway before landing.  Kind of like bowling.

I was thinking something along those lines, but I don't want to do a straight copy. And I know the mission you're thinking of, the shuttle was actually built with the klaw on the underside.

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9 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

I believe people have done something similar in the past, but I don't know any details. It was also several versions ago.

I was thinking something along those lines, but I don't want to do a straight copy. And I know the mission you're thinking of, the shuttle was actually built with the klaw on the underside.

Yup, I believe that is the one.

Well, I'm going to eagerly wait for your solution.

 

A progress report for my missions:  I've finished designing and building the shuttle and cargos for the Mun STS 2-4, and have mated and tested STS-2 to a full stack.  Once it passes verification, I'll then be mating the next two shuttles to the stack.

One thing I'm really trying to do is to use the same shuttle (other than points to attach the cargo) for all three missions.  Also, I did a preview last night of the Mk2.5 Spaceplane Parts Expansion, which I'll be using for the next set up missions.  Hope to finish the mating and testing process this evening, so that next week I can do the three missions  in one evening

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2 hours ago, Dman Revolution said:

It no longer shakes itself to pieces from all the clipping, but its horribly aerodynamically unstable.

What exactly is the issue? Does your shuttle start flipping around? Does it happen at a certain altitude or always?

The booster looks great though :)

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20 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

What exactly is the issue? Does your shuttle start flipping around? Does it happen at a certain altitude or always?

The booster looks great though :)

The fairings generate a huge amount of body lift past mach 1, so if launched individually they flip the second they pass mach 1. This translates to extreme roll and yaw instability past mach 1. Previously I had used a much smaller fairing at the top of the srb with a large number of control surfaces angled out to lower the center of pressure, essentially pulling it like the string on a balloon keeping it stable. With the fairings its difficult to clip or use at all the control surfaces like I did previously, so I'm looking for other options.

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22 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

@Dman Revolution Hm...you can probably add some control sufaces to the fairing base and clip them there so they are not inside of the fairing but this is indeed a bit tricky.

Ive tried. You should see the body lift vector those fairings produce going supersonic lol.

The next best thing I managed was to use structural tubes, and those seem to have worked, but I just need to solve some twr issues with it. It doesnt look nearly as good as those do tho :/

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I just had the idea to add control surfaces parallel with the underside of the srb skirt. The extra drag will pull the COP down. Ill try that later as I'm not at my PC rn. If that stabilizes it then I'll go ahead with optimization for ascent.

I'll keep you guys up to date

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So after many attempts I had to give up as the game wasnt allowing me to place struts on the new srbs, so I couldnt keep them from shaking apart. That plus the 7 or so minutes between *Press Launch* > stationary on pad > spacebar > explosion. After a few hours of that I just modified my current one with a 2.5-3.75m adapter and it looks good enough. I also built a Centaur-G with deployment mechanism like this:

Deployment-of-SC.jpg

 

And it actually rotates at about the same point as in this picture, allowing me to use  the full length of the bay instead of having to waste a bit to attach it to the aft of the bay.

 

Ill post some pics later with all the upgrades. I might take a look at trying some of the new challenges with my current shuttle.

@4x4cheesecake  Would you mind if I modified the challenges a bit for myself as to try and perform them with pieces of the real and proposed shuttle program?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Dman Revolution said:

@4x4cheesecake  Would you mind if I modified the challenges a bit for myself as to try and perform them with pieces of the real and proposed shuttle program?

You need to be more specific: which mission and what do you want to change?

In general, you are allowed to do additional stuff, provided that you still fullfil the requirements of the actual mission but if you want to substitute parts of a mission with something completely different, it may changes it in a way, so it is no longer comparable.

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51 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

You need to be more specific: which mission and what do you want to change?

In general, you are allowed to do additional stuff, provided that you still fullfil the requirements of the actual mission but if you want to substitute parts of a mission with something completely different, it may changes it in a way, so it is no longer comparable.

Specifically missions to land the shuttle itself on other bodies. I can get a shuttle to the Mun or Duna using tugs, but I doubt I can pull off landings with a realistic shuttle. Let alone trying to return from the surface of other bodies.

I was thinking of using landing carts that could either be carried there by a shuttle with a tug or just use my aforementioned centaur-g.

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44 minutes ago, Dman Revolution said:

Specifically missions to land the shuttle itself on other bodies. I can get a shuttle to the Mun or Duna using tugs, but I doubt I can pull off landings with a realistic shuttle. Let alone trying to return from the surface of other bodies.

I was thinking of using landing carts that could either be carried there by a shuttle with a tug or just use my aforementioned centaur-g.

For the mun missions:
These don't allow a support package so everything you need to perform the mission, need to be on board of the shuttle. You are not allowed to launch anything else for this mission on a separate craft and you are not allowed to use any resources which are already in space or on the surface of the mun.

I'm not going to make an exception in this case because it is the "core" element of the mission to reach the Mun (-surface) and get back to Kerbin. In most cases, these missions require a different shuttle, especially if you've used a real world replica before. The real shuttle(s) where never meant to leave a low earth orbit, so obviously, a replica will not provide enough dV and/or thrust to land on the mun.

If you can manage to put enough fuel and/or a tug together with the payload into the cargo bay and/or use a bigger external tank and keep the tank for quiet some time, that's fine.

For the Duna/Jool/Eve missions:
Most of them allow to launch a support package (except for Duna STS - 3 and i'm not quiet sure why though, I would probably allow one) which can be literally anything. A second shuttle or a 2000t rocket, there are no restrictions.

 

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