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Shuttle Challenge v5 - The STS thread [Stock and Mod Friendly] - MAJOR CHALLENGE ANNOUNCEMENT! - 30.3.2020


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46 minutes ago, michal.don said:

It's a nice shuttle you have there, and a little unusual LV design, but it seems to work very well for you, and you reached orbit with plenty of fuel to spare. Good job!

Thanks!  The nukes are for later: interplanetary transfers, flying on duna, and landing/lifting off low grav moons.

46 minutes ago, michal.don said:

Just to make sure the fuel pod is full, could you please provide a screenshot of the pod in orbit, with the resource tab open?

Sure, I happen to have a save file right after ejecting the pod.  It was unmodified from the download so crossfeed was off.    https://imgur.com/sLT7uMv   I also had a tiny bit of fuel left in the 2nd stage boosters when I ejected them, I make a habit of losing booster stages before orbit so as to not clutter up LKO :-)

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8 hours ago, iAMtheWALRUS said:

Here's STS-2a

 

8 hours ago, iAMtheWALRUS said:

And STS-2b

Nicely done!

A properly distributed commsat network, and good job on the fuel pod recovery! Retrieving a payload this heavy is a good test for the shuttle gliding abilities and stability during reentry, and it seems you got that just right :wink:

Just one thing about the commcats - I don't see any means of spin-stabilisation on them - is there such a thing? If not, I'm afraid I can only award you the pilot badge for this mission.

FvojaPY.jpg?1v4a3YWl.jpg?1

If I'm mistaken, and they are spin-stabilised, I'll provide the commander badge, of course.

Michal.don

 

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3 hours ago, michal.don said:

 

Just one thing about the commcats - I don't see any means of spin-stabilisation on them - is there such a thing? 

Spin stabilization is an old school method of keeping a satellite pointed a certain way.  They simply spin it.   Angular momentum then resists small perturbations.   It's not a good idea to do this on solar array sats since it messes up the tracking.  These have three axis reaction wheels, which would be considered an upgrade.   But I can simply turn off SAS and hit Q to spin stabilize them now:   https://youtu.be/12rNZWU7wOU.   

 

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I just started the LOP-G mission, and created a new STS from scratch.  It's been a fascinating process, and the reasoning behind how the Shuttle was eventually shaped now makes a lot more sense.  This version of my shuttle is a low-wing design, with the cargo bay opening at the top.  And it's an absolute pig to fly.  Having a low wing like that, with no dihedral, makes for...interesting...flight characteristics.  I might have to go back to a high-wing design for parts 2 and 3, just because landing with the CoM well above the CoL is not easy. Exciting, yes.  But not easy.

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On 19. 4. 2018 at 5:43 PM, iAMtheWALRUS said:

Spin stabilization is an old school method of keeping a satellite pointed a certain way.  They simply spin it.   Angular momentum then resists small perturbations.   It's not a good idea to do this on solar array sats since it messes up the tracking.  These have three axis reaction wheels, which would be considered an upgrade

Well.... Seeing that the spin-stabilisation requirement keeps confusing people, I finally decided to remove it from the rules. So, your entry now qualifies as "commander":

Jm6F4Br.jpg?1

 

On 20. 4. 2018 at 12:31 AM, zolotiyeruki said:

It's been a fascinating process, and the reasoning behind how the Shuttle was eventually shaped now makes a lot more sense.

This. I had the same experience when building my first shuttle :)

 

On 20. 4. 2018 at 7:04 PM, Artienia said:

To be short, This is the mission

First of all: really good job on landing the pod this way - I'm quite impressed!

However.... I can't award you the STS-1b badge. This way of deploying the fuel pod (launching it on a rocket, which has a shuttle slapped to it) is not acceptable.

So, I can't award you the STS-2b badge either - an STS-1b badge is a requirement for that mission.

But since the landing was so awesome, here's a proposition for you - you can redesign and refly just the STS-1b bit (getting the pod to orbit) the right way, and then I'll happily award you both the bonus badges.

Also, even if it's for a bug, hyperediting shuttles into orbit is not acceptable in this challenge.

 

Michal.don

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One more thing:

I know I promised it would come out the last week, but I slightly missed the date. However, I got everything ready today, so, I'm officially launching

THE NEW MISSION TIER - THE "TEST PILOT" MISSIONS!!

(Hooray, let's pop the champagne, toss some confetti around and party!!! No? Oh, ok......)

 

The first mission is an Approach and landing test, based on atmospheric test flights of the Enterprise shuttle prototype.

8LjQd6N.png

A full description of the mission is in the OP (below the Jool mission), a bit of reading (wiki) is available here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approach_and_Landing_Tests

I hope you have fun,

Michal.don

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, michal.don said:

Well.... Seeing that the spin-stabilisation requirement keeps confusing people, I finally decided to remove it from the rules. So, your entry now qualifies as "commander":

Jm6F4Br.jpg?1

 

This. I had the same experience when building my first shuttle :)

 

First of all: really good job on landing the pod this way - I'm quite impressed!

However.... I can't award you the STS-1b badge. This way of deploying the fuel pod (launching it on a rocket, which has a shuttle slapped to it) is not acceptable.

So, I can't award you the STS-2b badge either - an STS-1b badge is a requirement for that mission.

But since the landing was so awesome, here's a proposition for you - you can redesign and refly just the STS-1b bit (getting the pod to orbit) the right way, and then I'll happily award you both the bonus badges.

Also, even if it's for a bug, hyperediting shuttles into orbit is not acceptable in this challenge.

 

Michal.don

Thought the hyperedit would fix it, but sadly my apo still decreeses and changes even in space with no rcs. Of course i am very honoured to get this chance so i will refly it for sure. i only put it on the top of it because i was lazy. I will try to get it the most precise i can (because the kraken/bug doesnt allow me for a whole lot because it can change by Kilometers by seconds, so i will try my best :))

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4 minutes ago, Artienia said:

Thought the hyperedit would fix it

Hyperedit might sometimes fix those things, but from time to time it can also cause them. I'd suggest uninstalling it and giving it another go - it might help

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1 minute ago, michal.don said:

Hyperedit might sometimes fix those things, but from time to time it can also cause them. I'd suggest uninstalling it and giving it another go - it might help

well i know it is from one of the mods. when i removed all than it worked. so i am just gonna install the very few mods i need to complete it

Also about the new missions, i get that you wont be able to compete/fly the mk2 designs, only buran style but does the LV has to be buran styled too?

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2 hours ago, michal.don said:

-- snip --

 

 

 

yay! new missions! Champange bottle has been opened, by means of christening the new mission, however the rope was too short and Bill hit Jeb in the face with the bottle instead... Jeb is now very drunkenly stumbling around with a black eye. We hope he'll be sober enough to fly a mission tonight, if not, Bill has some more building tweaking and testing to do, so it might not be safe for Jeb to fly anything tonight anyways

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STS-1T has been completed, mission report here.

I had a slight head start having already tested 2 of my Shuttles in this way, I just had to redo it deadstick. That said, the UberShuttle requires major modification to fly sans engines - it has a minimum air speed of 150ms-1 which requires a very steep dive. Might try a rocket powered carrier aircraft to get it up to speed (although that's quite close to just doing an RTLS...)

Also, @michal.don, did you have to release a new mission 12 hours before I have an exam? Can I plausibly claim this as Physics revision?

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Not the actual mission yet, still have to build myself a nice plane to lift this thing to 7km. I was thinking building something more Virgin Galactic style, rather than a Boeing 747 kind of thing. I like those better and have some experience flying them in KSP

I'm going for a 5 meter cargo hold like my previous shuttles, so to make it work proper with the STS design I've scaled up the cockpit to match, so that's a 5 meter MK3 cockpit in case you're wondering why the engines look so small

As you can see by the rough handling Jeb still was a bit on the drunk side for this flight, but he sobered up as we got close to landing

(I need to use the kill-rotation switch on mechjeb instead of SAS, because that causes me to jiggle on the roll uncontrollably every time)

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6 hours ago, michal.don said:

Hooray, let's pop the champagne, toss some confetti around and party!!!

Woot!!!!  Welcome to shuttlefest 2018!!!  Party!!!!!

9 hours ago, michal.don said:

No? Oh, ok...

What, no?  Why not?!?!?!?!?  Uhmm..   Anyway.... too late!!!

Spoiler

3WJRrgv.png

On the other hand, Battletech will be released tomorrow and my crew is going to be... "absent" for a while...  so, this is going to be a mission against the clock...  or a very looooong one :wink: 

 

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So, official mission 1T flown as well now, took a couple tries to manage to also land the carrier plane. It's a bit unorthodox, but it works, instead of strapping the shuttle to a plane I strapped a plane to the shuttle:

 

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After looking at the separation video in wikipedia I'm sure my plane should have been more powerful, in the video the Enterprise was separated in what appears to be a 0º AoA, while the 747 was clearly diving, probably with the engines off, as it did not accelerate away after separation.  I went for solid fuel to avoid the tail, but similar ideas. :D 

I think I'll try it again with a dry shuttle ( It must have been dry during the real tests, right? )  I decided to do the test with full tanks to find out if the orbiter was capable of landing cargo while coming back from orbit.   Without the added weight, I'd expect the host plane to reach a higher altitude, perhaps not as high as 7000-8000, but enough to start a dive.

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1 hour ago, Ozelui said:

After looking at the separation video in wikipedia I'm sure my plane should have been more powerful, in the video the Enterprise was separated in what appears to be a 0º AoA, while the 747 was clearly diving, probably with the engines off, as it did not accelerate away after separation.  I went for solid fuel to avoid the tail, but similar ideas. :D 

I think I'll try it again with a dry shuttle ( It must have been dry during the real tests, right? )  I decided to do the test with full tanks to find out if the orbiter was capable of landing cargo while coming back from orbit.   Without the added weight, I'd expect the host plane to reach a higher altitude, perhaps not as high as 7000-8000, but enough to start a dive.

You're right @Ozelui the point of the mission is to do a test without using any kind of thrust on the shuttle, dry or not. So even during landing the little engine puff to drop the nose is too much thrust. And the separation, cool though it may look, should be performed without the boosters or any kind of thrust on the shuttle. that's why I dropped mine instead of lifting it off the back of the plane, makes for a much easier ride what with my shuttle being enormous (again). I don't know why I could manage to get back to my plane after landing, but it might be some mods interfering with KSP letting go of planes in atmospheric flight, it's close, but manageable with a little help from mechjeb to keep the plane under control while I pilot the shuttle myself.

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Wow, a lot of you got to the testing quite quickly :)

 

15 hours ago, GKXS said:

STS-1T has been completed, mission report here.

Gliding pretty well - the empty cargo bay doesn't really weigh a lot. Congratulation on being the frst certified test pilot around here :)

LOkYAUP.png?1

Sorry about your exam though, I hope you aced it despite doing some shuttling yesterday :wink:

 

22 hours ago, Artienia said:

Also about the new missions, i get that you wont be able to compete/fly the mk2 designs, only buran style but does the LV has to be buran styled too?

Well, there's no need for an LV in the furst mission, and in the second..... Well, you'll find out soon why there should be an ET/boosters configuration :wink:

 

12 hours ago, hoioh said:

So, official mission 1T flown as well now, took a couple tries to manage to also land the carrier plane. It's a bit unorthodox, but it works, instead of strapping the shuttle to a plane I strapped a plane to the shuttle

Yeah, I sort of got used to seeing unorthodox solutions for simple problems here :D But hey, the rules don't state anything about that, so, here's your badge:

LOkYAUP.png?1

 

2 hours ago, Ozelui said:

I went for solid fuel to avoid the tail, but similar ideas. :D 

Certainly a more kerbal way of doing things :D

The real shuttle of course flew empty, it did not even have engines in the first flight. And I have to ask - what is the "puff" from the engines after landing? RCS? I dod not see any engines activated by staging, but the RCS seems to be off too.... I'll have to wait for an explanation before awarding the badge, sorry.

 

48 minutes ago, hoioh said:

Fair is fair, off the back of an aircraft is harder, so I've built one to match the size of my STS:

Well, looking forward to seeing that one, too!

 

Michal.don

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I found the easiest way to separate was to put the carrier in a 10o dive, then cut the throttle, nose down, separate and nose up in rapid succession. This manoeuvre gave me enough vertical separation to clear the tail(s) of the Carrier.

The 2 problems I had with my UberShuttle was that it can't glide, and is so heavy that the carrier ran out of fuel on the way up...

Spoiler

Test_Flight_U0.pngTest_Flight_U1.png

Test_Flight_U2.pngTest_Flight_U3.pngTest_Flight_U4.pngTest_Flight_U5.png

Edit - Didn't see @michal.don's post. Thanks very much. Test Flying provided a useful brain reset so I got some more work done - exam went better than expected!

Edited by GKXS
Avoid a double post
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5 minutes ago, GKXS said:

Test Flying provided a useful brain reset so I got some more work done - exam went better than expected!

So, congratulations on that, too :) May I ask, what are you studying, and what exam it was?

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1 hour ago, hoioh said:

You're right @Ozelui the point of the mission is to do a test without using any kind of thrust on the shuttle, dry or not. So even during landing the little engine puff to drop the nose is too much thrust. And the separation, cool though it may look, should be performed without the boosters or any kind of thrust on the shuttle. that's why I dropped mine instead of lifting it off the back of the plane, makes for a much easier ride what with my shuttle being enormous (again). I don't know why I could manage to get back to my plane after landing, but it might be some mods interfering with KSP letting go of planes in atmospheric flight, it's close, but manageable with a little help from mechjeb to keep the plane under control while I pilot the shuttle myself.

The tiny burn during touchdown is actually the product of a wrong staging while trying to deploy the parachutes, the nose goes down on it's own without requiring any thrust. :D  Point taken, it should be quickly fixed, and the separation boosters removed.

I guess you have a mod installed that is affecting the physics range, or perhaps your plane was pitching up and therefore reducing speed?  I was considering installing some mod for that reason, my 747 can stay in the air without issues for a long distance, but once the shuttle has stopped in the runway, It's already out of the physics bubble.

1 minute ago, michal.don said:

What is the "puff" from the engines after landing?

The LFO powered OMS.  I left the throttle at full after launch from the 747,  once on the runway I staged the OMS ( which should just activate the engines but not burn), then I hit "X" to correct it, and then another stage for the drag chutes.  The video is accelerated to 2x, perhaps the speed made noticing the staging a bit more difficult.

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14 minutes ago, Ozelui said:

The LFO powered OMS.  I left the throttle at full after launch from the 747,  once on the runway I staged the OMS ( which should just activate the engines but not burn), then I hit "X" to correct it, and then another stage for the drag chutes.  The video is accelerated to 2x, perhaps the speed made noticing the staging a bit more difficult.

Ah, that makes sense, I indeed did not notice the staging and the immediate throttle-down. In that case, here's your badge!

LOkYAUP.png?1

 

Seeing how quickly you guys got to this mission, I might release the next one a lot sooner than I originally thought..... :)

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2 minutes ago, michal.don said:

Ah, that makes sense, I indeed did not notice the staging and the immediate throttle-down. In that case, here's your badge!

LOkYAUP.png?1

 

Seeing how quickly you guys got to this mission, I might release the next one a lot sooner than I originally thought..... :)

Doing the Mission you proposed me. after that im doing that one :D

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