michal.don

Shuttle Challenge v5 - The STS thread [Stock and Mod Friendly] - MAJOR CHALLENGE ANNOUNCEMENT! - 30.3.2020

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O.K. Thanks for the info. Would it not be simpler to land and refuel on Bop or Pol before heading to Laythe? That should give you the needed DV to lower your orbit around Laythe for a safe re-entry.

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13 minutes ago, The Dunatian said:

Would it not be simpler to land and refuel on Bop or Pol before heading to Laythe? That should give you the needed DV to lower your orbit around Laythe for a safe re-entry.

Depends on your shuttle, how much fuel/dV you can carry around in your orbiter and if you actually want to use an ISRU (I don't^^). Getting back into orbit after landing on laythe will still need ~2800m/s, so if your full fuel orbiter without any cargo got a dV of ~3400m/s you can still not use 1000m/s (probably more) to slow slow down into a nice low Laythe orbit or you will be stucked on laythe after landing. Well, if you can refuel on laythe again, it would be fine anyway.

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3 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Depends on your shuttle, how much fuel/dV you can carry around in your orbiter and if you actually want to use an ISRU (I don't^^). Getting back into orbit after landing on laythe will still need ~2800m/s, so if your full fuel orbiter without any cargo got a dV of ~3400m/s you can still not use 1000m/s (probably more) to slow slow down into a nice low Laythe orbit or you will be stucked on laythe after landing. Well, if you can refuel on laythe again, it would be fine anyway.

Did you used Vall and Laythe to lower orbital speed in the inner Joolian system ? In my opinion the reason is that your orbit is highly elliptical, and its a pain around Jool because you have to understand that you are going extremly fast when below Vall's orbit. It's all about lowering Ap, and best way to do this is multiple flyby around.

I checked my screens and I touched Laythe at 2700m/s on the first landing.

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1 hour ago, Kerbolitto said:

Did you used Vall and Laythe to lower orbital speed in the inner Joolian system ?

I used Tylo for most of my flybys to slow down but probably that's actually the mistake because I cannot lower my Ap down to Laythes orbit without my Pe disappearing within Jool. I'll try some more gentle flybys around Val, maybe it helps :)

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You definitely should practice your Joolian pinball. There are two ways to get in, around, and back out of the Jool system. One is to carry several craptons of excess dV, and the other is mastering gravity assists. Here's an example of a multistep maneuver I did on one Jool mission:

Spoiler

EjHVfJ9.png

(full mission here - https://imgur.com/a/8ZSZH)

1. Trident SSSTO (that's a Seaplane SSTO) enters Jool system from the top left, along the blue solid conic

2. small course correction puts Trident on a gravity braking flyby of Tylo, starting along the purple conic on the left

3. flyby sends Trident inwards towards a low pass of Jool (slightly above its atmosphere) along the green and red conics

4. Oberth burn at Jool periapsis boosts Trident back up to a Laythe intercept along the blue and yellow conics

5. Trident performs aerobraking and capture burns at Laythe (not shown). I don't have screenshots of that, but I think the initial aerobraking velocity was under 3000 degrees - a bit hot, but manageable with Mk 2 and 3 parts

 

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14 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Quick question for this one: 'Deorbiting the solar/comm array' does not require to load them into the cargo bay and land them on Kerbin, does it? It is more like: put a rocket engine on it and fly it into the atmosphere?

Exactly. You only need to recover the hab module, the solar array can be sent to burn in the atmosphere.

14 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Well, I'm getting tired of burning up in Laythes atmosphere

Regarding this - I believe that the solution is as everyone hinted - limiting the entry speed by performing a few gravity assists in the Jool system. That's pretty much the purpose of STS-3T, learning how to do those :)

 

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58 minutes ago, michal.don said:

Exactly. You only need to recover the hab module, the solar array can be sent to burn in the atmosphere.

Perfekt, thanks :) 

59 minutes ago, michal.don said:

I believe that the solution is as everyone hinted - limiting the entry speed by performing a few gravity assists in the Jool system. That's pretty much the purpose of STS-3T, learning how to do those :)

I had no issues during STS-3T since the huygens probe got a heatshield^^ 

Anyway, I'll do some more Gravity assist Training, maybe I should also actually fly to jool instead of using the debug menu to put the Orbiter into an excentric Orbit. Probably, I just used a too small SMA.

Thanks everyone for the great hints :)

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2 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Thanks everyone for the great hints :)

Got one more for ya:

On my way into the jool system I tend to dip in under Laythe to get a gravity assist capture for jool and then adjust for the final arrival at laythe

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2 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Perfekt, thanks :)

I had no issues during STS-3T since the huygens probe got a heatshield^^ 

Anyway, I'll do some more Gravity assist Training, maybe I should also actually fly to jool instead of using the debug menu to put the Orbiter into an excentric Orbit. Probably, I just used a too small SMA.

Thanks everyone for the great hints :)

Also you can encounter Laythe and slightly aerobrake in the higher atmosphere during multiple times, this will lower Ap and you can capture later once your orbit is less elliptical (like my STS Eve 1).

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On 10/28/2018 at 10:21 PM, Petrovich said:

STS-4/STS-4R

Nice rescue mission, even with the improvised launch vehicle :) Just curious, where is the airfield the crew "accidentally" landed? Which mod does that? :) 

I enjoyed the report, good job, and here's your badge:

bi6LEcy.jpg?1

Michal.don

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16 hours ago, michal.don said:

Nice rescue mission, even with the improvised launch vehicle :)

Thank you. Something to spice things up!

 

16 hours ago, michal.don said:

Just curious, where is the airfield the crew "accidentally" landed? Which mod does that?

KerbinSide Remastered, landed at "Baikerbanor Space Center" hence the Buran-style shuttle

Looks like the Krussians have some 'splainin to do.

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We choose to go to Mun, not because it's easy, but because michal.don tells us to do so!  (And because of the badges!)

9rvhItz.jpg

 

Not much time for KSP lately, RL gets in the way whenever I try to build something :D .   Fortunately the only meaningful change to the shuttle for this mission was emptying some OMS tanks.   Other than that, I added a couple of solar panels and fuel cells just in case, and replaced the DTS-M1 antenna for a HG-5 to look closer to the real thing:
moLymro.jpg

 

About the reentry, the Dessert airfield or the KSC were too far behind my re-entry point so I went the long way around.  The altitude profile is pretty much the same as a skip re-entry (see below), just not leaving the atmosphere at any time:
wbkpZIq.jpg

 

STS-5T report here

Craft file here

 

 

Spoiler

Mod list, however the ship is stock+DLC, no modded parts involved.

H4TLmsc.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ozelui said:

We choose to go to Mun, not because it's easy, but because michal.don tells us to do so! 

I love this :D

And I'm very glad to see the first one to come to claim the new badge :) Your entry sure counts, great gliding capacity and a pinpoint landing, I'll probably never grow tired of seeing those. Good job!

And the Eagle landing spot is just right, too :) 

Congratulations on being the first 5-level-certified test pilot!

7zmbGnp.png?1

So I should design the new mission now.... :) 

Michal.don

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So, while working on the final payload design for my Jool STS - 1, I came across a little problem:

Spoiler

urBg23x.png?1

The blurred part contains my atmospheric exploration aircraft, I just don't want to spoil the design already :P 
As you can see, the remaining space in the cargo bay is pretty small to fit in a surface outpost but I have some space left below the aircraft....so am I allowed to split the outpost in multiple modules, assemble them in low laythe orbit and put the whole outpost back into the cargo bay to land it on laythe? Obviously, I need to get rid of the aircraft before I can do this but that's fine with the rules so far :) 

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35 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

So, while working on the final payload design for my Jool STS - 1, I came across a little problem:

The blurred part contains my atmospheric exploration aircraft, I just don't want to spoil the design already :P 
As you can see, the remaining space in the cargo bay is pretty small to fit in a surface outpost but I have some space left below the aircraft....so am I allowed to split the outpost in multiple modules, assemble them in low laythe orbit and put the whole outpost back into the cargo bay to land it on laythe? Obviously, I need to get rid of the aircraft before I can do this but that's fine with the rules so far :) 

You can probably make a tiny outpost by putting the ISRU vertically on a corner of what's left in the bay, and attach a few habitats around ?

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9 minutes ago, Kerbolitto said:

You can probably make a tiny outpost by putting the ISRU vertically on a corner of what's left in the bay, and attach a few habitats around ?

Hm...maybe multiple small habitats will actually help a bit. So far, I'm using just the hitchhiker:
8zRZvKy.png?1

I'll try some mk1 lander cans or crew cabins instead, I'm curious how this will look and fit, just in case I'm not allowed to split the outpost in multiple modules :)

PS: That's actually my 1000. post :cool:

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10 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Hm...maybe multiple small habitats will actually help a bit. So far, I'm using just the hitchhiker:
8zRZvKy.png?1

I'll try some mk1 lander cans or crew cabins instead, I'm curious how this will look and fit, just in case I'm not allowed to split the outpost in multiple modules :)

PS: That's actually my 1000. post :cool:

Put everything vertically, there's more space in Y axis :). Get rid of the big RCS wheel & put 2/3 battery packs on both sides of the bay instead of using a node :)

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26 minutes ago, Kerbolitto said:

Put everything vertically, there's more space in Y axis :). Get rid of the big RCS wheel & put 2/3 battery packs on both sides of the bay instead of using a node :)

Oh, I see! Yeah I'll try that :)

Never thought about building along the Y-Axis and put the stuff next to each other or at least not for the orignial design... the 'split' version actually requires exactly this type of design, I have no clue why I haven't thought about it earlier xD

Well, sometimes you lose the forest for the trees^^ (and finding a translation for an idiom is quiet an adventure :D)

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17 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

As you can see, the remaining space in the cargo bay is pretty small to fit in a surface outpost but I have some space left below the aircraft....so am I allowed to split the outpost in multiple modules, assemble them in low laythe orbit and put the whole outpost back into the cargo bay to land it on laythe?

If you don't decide for a redesign, orbital assembly of the outpost is completely fine, too. I'm getting curious, this should be a good one :)

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1 minute ago, michal.don said:

If you don't decide for a redesign, orbital assembly of the outpost is completely fine, too. I'm getting curious, this should be a good one :)

Perfect :)

I'll test a few designs and see how it works. Having the option for an orbital assembly increases the possibilities.

I'm already excited about my aircraft design, this will be a such a great mission :)

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Absolutely incredible to see this challenge still in action! Just wanted to pop in and say well done, guys - it's been awesome scrolling through the 47 pages and seeing everything everyone's done (and those nice fancy badges in everyone's signatures)... Maybe I should make something and get back in the game?

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