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Shuttle Challenge v5 - The STS thread [Stock and Mod Friendly] - MAJOR CHALLENGE ANNOUNCEMENT! - 30.3.2020


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3 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

I guess it's ok to call it "ridiculous fancy", no name required :D

Yeah, of course, if there's no name I'll call it that :D 

I was just curious because I think that concept was seriously considered ( and discarded ) in reality.  The drawing looked like something from the 50s or 60s.

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@Ozelui I'm curious though so I've done some researches and came across this picture:

Spoiler

Space Shuttle Program

 

But it is not a symmetrical design like yours, so I'm not quiet sure if this is the concept you had in mind...

 

edit: this one looks interesting too: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19890017507.pdf

Edited by 4x4cheesecake
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1 hour ago, Ozelui said:

Does anyone know how this launch vehicle type is called?  I remember seeing a drawing like it in the KSP forums a long - Really long :D - time ago but could not find it anymore.

I believe that counts as some sort of parallel staging.  If I'm understanding it right, the two outer bits have crossfeed to the central bit and are dropped when they're empty.  If the main core has it's engines running from the pad to final orbital insertion, then it's a parallel staging type deal.

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11 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

But it is not a symmetrical design like yours, so I'm not quiet sure if this is the concept you had in mind...

Very similar, the only difference is the second vehicle.  I've been searching for a while too, but had no luck so far, all the designs I've seen detach only one vehicle.

Nevermind, Ridiculous fancy will do XD

3 minutes ago, Thor Wotansen said:

I believe that counts as some sort of parallel staging.  If I'm understanding it right, the two outer bits have crossfeed to the central bit and are dropped when they're empty.  If the main core has it's engines running from the pad to final orbital insertion, then it's a parallel staging type deal.

Exactly, the two aircrafts in the sides transfer fuel to the shuttle in the middle and are released when empty ( except for ~3000 LF units each for the atmospheric RTB).  All engines are activated at liftoff, so I guess it's a parallel staging then.  

Thanks!

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Couple of questions:

Is the Mk2.5 spaceplane parts allowed?

Is the shuttle allowed to be in a fairing for the launch?

The 40t fuel tank in the early missions looks like it us bigger than the 2.5 spaceplane parts.  Could you make a longer, narrower version for the 2.5 spaceplane, or would you mind if I make a version which will fit?

Are jet engines allowed to be on the shuttle?

Edited by linuxgurugamer
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29 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Couple of questions:

Is the Mk2.5 spaceplane parts allowed?

Is the shuttle allowed to be in a fairing for the launch?

The 40t fuel tank in the early missions looks like it us bigger than the 2.5 spaceplane parts.  Could you make a longer, narrower version for the 2.5 spaceplane, or would you mind if I make a version which will fit?

Are jet engines allowed to be on the shuttle?

i am in no way an expert but i have been in this challange for a liittle while so here is what i can tell you

 

1) If mk2.5 is modded, than yes, you will just get a modded badge

2) I have seen shuttles in fairings, and ii dont see any rules against it

3) I personally have redesigned the fuel pod and there was don didnt have a problem with that.

4) Yeah

 

I may be wrong about this but as  far as i know this is it

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32 minutes ago, Artienia said:

i am in no way an expert but i have been in this challange for a liittle while so here is what i can tell you

 

1) If mk2.5 is modded, than yes, you will just get a modded badge

2) I have seen shuttles in fairings, and ii dont see any rules against it

3) I personally have redesigned the fuel pod and there was don didnt have a problem with that.

4) Yeah

 

I may be wrong about this but as  far as i know this is it

Thank you. So for #2, it just has to have a total mass of 40t or more, and be delivered to orbit full.

 

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1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Couple of questions:

The final word is up to michal.don, but my guesses are...

1)  Most mods are allowed, as long as they are not overpowered.   I never tried this particular one, but from the looks of it I'd say it will be fine.

2)  Probably, there are no rules saying otherwise.

3)  Didn't know @Artienia had a custom fuel pod.  Cool! and yes.

4)  Yes

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7 minutes ago, Ozelui said:

The final word is up to michal.don, but my guesses are...

1)  Most mods are allowed, as long as they are not overpowered.   I never tried this particular one, but from the looks of it I'd say it will be fine.

2)  Probably, there are no rules saying otherwise.

3)  Didn't know @Artienia had a custom fuel pod.  Cool! and yes.

4)  Yes

just a quick q, aren't you the guy who did the duna mission? that insane one?

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STS-4T Skylab (second part)

 

This part is shorter than the first, you already saw my method of moving stuff around Skylab and there's not much happenning !

 

Part 1 : Launch and encounter with Skylab

 

hqcnth.jpg

c7x1uz.jpg

o2yssa.jpg

 

Spoiler

Correcting inclination with the Shuttle's engines, this time only 4.7° :

08uj7k.jpg

Encounter with Skylab after a short period of time :

1gzum8.jpg

 

Part 2 : Docking, deploying new modules

 

j0wdew.jpg

9rn7lr.jpg

we3lx1.jpg

This is the hab module, consisting of 2x2 Mk2 fuselage

1pjshx.jpg

You can see the 3 new cre above the antennas !

 

Spoiler

Deploying first comm-mast :

inpk95.jpg

Sadly I lost a few screenshots of the 2nd comm-mast & solar array deployement, I can take some new ones if needed, of the modules themselves or of me moving them around with RoboTug.

 

Part 3 : Deorbiting the shuttle

 

khbhlh.jpg

fl9z8h.jpg

0y1ibt.jpg

 

Spoiler

Deorbit maneuver : I just eyeballed KSC and it worked perfectly with no quickload !

rdf094.jpg

Bonus pic :

hdtnxu.jpg

 

Edited by Kerbolitto
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5 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Is the shuttle allowed to be in a fairing for the launch?

Are jet engines allowed to be on the shuttle?

A fairing isn't going to do you much good on the later missions, unless you can find a giant mod fairing to cover your bigger shuttles.

I have jets on my shuttle, but I'm using them less lately. If you can get good on your reentry window and landing approach, they're not necessary and are just dead weight.

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6 hours ago, sturmhauke said:

A fairing isn't going to do you much good on the later missions, unless you can find a giant mod fairing to cover your bigger shuttles.

I have jets on my shuttle, but I'm using them less lately. If you can get good on your reentry window and landing approach, they're not necessary and are just dead weight.

I don't know if you can use jets on special missions like STS Abort or STS Apollo crossover, which are by design precision landing missions requiring forward thinking.

The only time I really needed them was for Laythe SSTO Shuttle but maybe michal should clarify if they're allowed in Kerbin's atmosphere?

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I can see a few new entries, and a few new faces - so let's do another round :)

15 hours ago, Ozelui said:

It was the night before Christmas and Santa Kerman forgot to secure his precious cargo.

Wow, the screenshot of booster separation looks so good :) Great mission with two stops on different celestial bodies, three presents recovered and a pinpoint landing - very good job!

A Christmas badge for you, my friend:

UZFqBce.png?1

15 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

I guess it's ok to call it "ridiculous fancy", no name required :D

I second that :D

 

(next page coming soon)

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15 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Couple of questions:

Is the Mk2.5 spaceplane parts allowed?

Is the shuttle allowed to be in a fairing for the launch?

The 40t fuel tank in the early missions looks like it us bigger than the 2.5 spaceplane parts.  Could you make a longer, narrower version for the 2.5 spaceplane, or would you mind if I make a version which will fit?

Are jet engines allowed to be on the shuttle?

Welcome to the challenge!

To answer your questions:

1) I'm not familiar with that mod, but from the name I suppose it's a collection of parts with size between mk2 and mk3? Generally, mods are allowed here, with the exception of really overpowered engines and some straight cheaty stuff, which I do not think will be the case here.

2) Yes, no problem with that.

3) The fuel pod here is 2.5m in diameter, I don't know the dimensions of the mk2.5 parts. Before I'm able to give an answer to this one, I'd like to ask @Artienia about his fuel pod - I honestly do not remember allowing a custom made fuel pod - could you, please, send me the mission report or the link to our discussion about that? Thanks!

(I got the answer I needed, you can design your own fuel pod, it has to weigh at least 40 tons, and try to roughly match the resource ratios of the original one, if possible)

(edit: one note though - the "fuel pod missions" are considered bonus missions, you don't need to complete them to progress through the mission series, they are completely optional)

4) Yes, jets are allowed, and quite common around here

 

I'll get to you with the third answer as soon as I can, and I hope I cleared all the doubts you had. Have fun shuttling and I'm looking forward to seeing your entries ;)

 

14 hours ago, Artienia said:

just a quick q, aren't you the guy who did the duna mission? that insane one?

There are a lot of folks doing crazy things around here, that might not be the best way to distinguish one from another :D

 

12 hours ago, Kerbolitto said:

STS-4T Skylab (second part)

And the work is done, and it's done in style :) Not your typical, Skylab-looking-Skylab, but the rules don't say anything about that (surprisingly :D ). Good job, and a well-earned badge:

mag5XYH.png?1

 

3 hours ago, Kerbolitto said:

I don't know if you can use jets on special missions like STS Abort or STS Apollo crossover, which are by design precision landing missions requiring forward thinking.

Well, I try not to be too restrictive in the "Test pilot" missions, but I state in the OP that they are designed and meant to be done with an STS-like vehicle. So, by the rules, you technically can use jets, but you're making it easier for yourself, so shame on you :D 

 

I hope I got it all,

Michal.don

Edited by michal.don
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53 minutes ago, michal.don said:

Welcome to the challenge!

To answer your questions:

1) I'm not familiar with that mod, but from the name I suppose it's a collection of parts with size between mk2 and mk3? Generally, mods are allowed here, with the exception of really overpowered engines and some straight cheaty stuff, which I do not think will be the case here.

2) Yes, no problem with that.

3) The fuel pod here is 2.5m in diameter, I don't know the dimensions of the mk2.5 parts. Before I'm able to give an answer to this one, I'd like to ask @Artienia about his fuel pod - I honestly do not remember allowing a custom made fuel pod - could you, please, send me the mission report or the link to our discussion about that? Thanks!

(edit: one note though - the "fuel pod missions" are considered bonus missions, you don't need to complete them to progress through the mission series, they are completely optional)

4) Yes, jets are allowed, and quite common around here

 

I'll get to you with the third answer as soon as I can, and I hope I cleared all the doubts you had. Have fun shuttling and I'm looking forward to seeing your entries ;)

 

There are a lot of folks doing crazy things around here, that might not be the best way to distinguish one from another :D

 

And the work is done, and it's done in style :) Not your typical, Skylab-looking-Skylab, but the rules don't say anything about that (surprisingly :D ). Good job, and a well-earned badge:

mag5XYH.png?1

 

Well, I try not to be too restrictive in the "Test pilot" missions, but I state in the OP that they are designed and meant to be done with an STS-like vehicle. So, by the rules, you technically can use jets, but you're making it easier for yourself, so shame on you :D 

 

I hope I got it all,

Michal.don

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/messenger/135152/&tab=comments#comment-304917ű

here is a snippet of our convo and you can see when i send the pics i am using a 40t custom pot to fit my mk2 design. when i posted the reason it didn't got eccepted it bc the pod wasn't in a precise enough orbit

While looking back at it, i don't see a point where you specifically said you can, it justh as to be 40t but i don't see a point where you had a prob with that. Also i didn't look in the thread so maybe it is proven or disproven here

 

as i said, i am not an expert, just an enthusiast,

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1 hour ago, michal.don said:

The fuel pod here is 2.5m in diameter, I don't know the dimensions of the mk2.5 parts.

The outer diameter of the mk2.5 parts is 2.5m so you cannot fit any 2.5m parts inside the cargo bay:

JqpTqoV.png

 

*archivist mode on*

1 hour ago, michal.don said:

Before I'm able to give an answer to this one, I'd like to ask @Artienia about his fuel pod - I honestly do not remember allowing a custom made fuel pod - could you, please, send me the mission report or the link to our discussion about that? Thanks!

Funny thing about this: It is indeed a custom made fuel pod:

But @Artienia didn't get the badge because the pod used some puff engines and it's own fuel fuel to reach the final orbit:

*archivist mode off*

So my 2 cents for this topic:
Since STS - 1b and STS - 2b are bonus mission but will test the capacities of the shuttle, I guess it would be fine to allow a custom pod with the same mass. A screenshot of the custom pod in the VAB/SPH can easily proof the mass (engineer report/KER). Sure, it's totally valid to skip them but especially STS - 2b is really tough and you will miss a quiet interesting challenge.

Edited by 4x4cheesecake
typo
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21 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

*archivist mode on*

Funny thing about this: It is indeed a custom made fuel pod:

But @Artienia didn't get the badge because the pod used some puff engines and it's own fuel fuel to reach the final orbit:

*archivist mode off*

So my 2 cents for this topic:
Since STS - 1b and STS - 2b are bonus mission but will test the capacities of the shuttle, I guess it would be fine to allow a custom pod with the same mass. A screenshot of the custom pod in the VAB/SPH can easily proof the mass (engineer report/KER). Sure, it's totally valid to skip them but especially STS - 2b is really tough and you will miss a quiet interesting challange.

[snip]

 

21 hours ago, michal.don said:

@Artienia, @4x4cheesecake, thanks guys! I'll edit the previous post, and allow custom made fuel pods.

okey this is epic

Edited by Vanamonde
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3 hours ago, michal.don said:

Welcome to the challenge!

To answer your questions:

1) I'm not familiar with that mod, but from the name I suppose it's a collection of parts with size between mk2 and mk3? Generally, mods are allowed here, with the exception of really overpowered engines and some straight cheaty stuff, which I do not think will be the case here.

2) Yes, no problem with that.

3) The fuel pod here is 2.5m in diameter, I don't know the dimensions of the mk2.5 parts. Before I'm able to give an answer to this one, I'd like to ask @Artienia about his fuel pod - I honestly do not remember allowing a custom made fuel pod - could you, please, send me the mission report or the link to our discussion about that? Thanks!

(I got the answer I needed, you can design your own fuel pod, it has to weigh at least 40 tons, and try to roughly match the resource ratios of the original one, if possible)

(edit: one note though - the "fuel pod missions" are considered bonus missions, you don't need to complete them to progress through the mission series, they are completely optional)

4) Yes, jets are allowed, and quite common around here

 

I'll get to you with the third answer as soon as I can, and I hope I cleared all the doubts you had. Have fun shuttling and I'm looking forward to seeing your entries ;)

Thank you.

One more question regarding flying in the atmosphere.

I understand that the reason behind this is to demonstrate flying & piloting ability.  But, in a situation where I've reentered the atmosphere, am 1/2 way around the world, and have a shuttle with jets, would it be allowable to use something like Atmosphere Autopilot to just do the long-distance flying?  Take offs, reentry and landings have to be manual, but this is an odd case (I think).

Either way, I'll be doing this sometimes on Twitch and sometimes not.

Thanks

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3 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Thank you.

One more question regarding flying in the atmosphere.

I understand that the reason behind this is to demonstrate flying & piloting ability.  But, in a situation where I've reentered the atmosphere, am 1/2 way around the world, and have a shuttle with jets, would it be allowable to use something like Atmosphere Autopilot to just do the long-distance flying?  Take offs, reentry and landings have to be manual, but this is an odd case (I think).

Either way, I'll be doing this sometimes on Twitch and sometimes not.

Thanks

I can give you a little tip there: use the trajectories mod to better predict your landing location just to avoid the bothersome flight

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7 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

One more question regarding flying in the atmosphere.

I understand that the reason behind this is to demonstrate flying & piloting ability.  But, in a situation where I've reentered the atmosphere, am 1/2 way around the world, and have a shuttle with jets, would it be allowable to use something like Atmosphere Autopilot to just do the long-distance flying?  Take offs, reentry and landings have to be manual, but this is an odd case (I think).

While I would encourage aiming the reentry more precisely ( ;) ), I think in this case the autopilot can be used to "just fly straight for half an hour". But usually, it takes just a few test flights to get the hand of a new shuttle, and you should be able to get it to reenter in the general vicinity of the chosen landing spot.

So, in conclusion, you can use the autopilot to "hold the stick", but please, do not try to make it do more, because I would not like it to set a precedent for others.

Michal.don

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Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

I'll do my best not to at all, but if I do, it will be to only fly straight & level., and I will mention it if I do use it

Thanks for understanding :) Good luck with your missions, and let us know when you plan on streaming your attempts, I'm sure some of the folks here would love to watch it live ;)

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