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[1.6] BARIS - Building A Rocket Isn't Simple


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3 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

The answer to how it works with KCT is in the KSPedia..

So I looked this up and apparently the answer is "if KCT is installed, BARIS's vehicle integration feature is disabled"--which would seem to mean losing one of BARIS's most interesting options (the reliability/quick readiness trade-off) since KCT has no equivalent as far as I know. Would there be a way to have both--that is, to launch a vessel you have to first build it with KCT and then integrate it with BARIS? Granted I have no idea how easy or otherwise that would be to do (since it would cross the line from simply checking for KCT to actually changing its functionality) but it'd be extremely cool.

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28 minutes ago, Hotaru said:

So I looked this up and apparently the answer is "if KCT is installed, BARIS's vehicle integration feature is disabled"--which would seem to mean losing one of BARIS's most interesting options (the reliability/quick readiness trade-off) since KCT has no equivalent as far as I know. Would there be a way to have both--that is, to launch a vessel you have to first build it with KCT and then integrate it with BARIS? Granted I have no idea how easy or otherwise that would be to do (since it would cross the line from simply checking for KCT to actually changing its functionality) but it'd be extremely cool.

At the present time, KCT doesn't have an interface to tell me when a vessel's construction has been completed. Once it has that, then I can do vessel integration as well. So for the time being, I simply disable vessel integration and pretend it was done during KCT's vessel construction. Good suggestion though. :)

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1 hour ago, panarchist said:

@linuxgurugamer - Don't get me wrong, Dang-It! is a great mod, my issues with it are due to implementation decisions by Ippo - and really only because I had an 11-year mission to Cercani - not exactly a mission suited to that mod.  My main issue is that Dang-It! only affected the active vessel.  Maybe that's changed, I haven't used it since shortly after you took it over.  I use a large number of the mods you maintain, you're doing great work - so it's definitely not an intended slight.

 

Like I said, I'm not offended.  I had that momentary pull like "What is this competing with a mod I'm maintaining", but this is much, much better than DangIt.

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26 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

At the present time, KCT doesn't have an interface to tell me when a vessel's construction has been completed. Once it has that, then I can do vessel integration as well.

Could you check for the auto KAC alarm set by KCT for vessel completion? Granted that would only work in a very specific setup (BARIS, KCT, and KAC all installed, KCT's auto KAC alarms enabled). Just an idea, I'm not too surprised to hear such a thing would be easier said than done.

Honestly if given a choice at this point I'd probably take BARIS over KCT for a new career: it seems to be a lot more flexible with things like which ships are getting built how fast, and it has a nice built-in system for random failures as well. The only big thing I'd miss from KCT would be the ability to recover and relaunch the same ship (or at least the same parts reassembled into an identical ship) with a quicker turnaround than stock recovery and rebuilding from scratch--which gives things like having a fleet of several unique shuttle orbiters a little more of a meaning.

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1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Once I get that sorted though, BARIS will be bundled with MOLE, as its functionality was intended since the beginning of the mod.


I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.  My objection is not to bundling MOLE and BARIS (that is, I'm not objecting to them being included in the same download), nor to installing BARIS.  (I might want to run it at some point, I played the heck out of the original back in the day.)   I'm objecting to being unable to completely opt out of what is described as optional functionality.  If I've disabled BARIS in a given save, then it shouldn't display an icon in the stock toolbar.
 

1 hour ago, Krakatoa said:

You have it in the 000WildBlueTools folder instead of the WildBlueIndustries folder.


Whups, I found the white square error last night just before going to bed and decided to investigate this morning...  My fault, I shouldn't have done that while still on my first cup of coffee.  Thanks for catching that.  My apologies.

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3 minutes ago, DerekL1963 said:


I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.  My objection is not to bundling MOLE and BARIS (that is, I'm not objecting to them being included in the same download), nor to installing BARIS.  (I might want to run it at some point, I played the heck out of the original back in the day.)   I'm objecting to being unable to completely opt out of what is described as optional functionality.  If I've disabled BARIS in a given save, then it shouldn't display an icon in the stock toolbar.

Yes, it should - but only on the Space Center scene.  RemoteTech uses that approach.  It needs to be on the Space Center scene so it can be easily enabled / disabled at will but the user.

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30 minutes ago, panarchist said:

Yes, it should - but only on the Space Center scene.  RemoteTech uses that approach.  It needs to be on the Space Center scene so it can be easily enabled / disabled at will but the user.

Why not just use the standard settings screen to decide whether it is enabled or not?  Actually, BARIS already requires that you go into the settings to enable it.  So why show the button if it is disabled?

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7 minutes ago, Iso-Polaris said:

I think the MTBF seems a little bit short to me...

An unmanned trip to Eeloo often takes years to complete.

How would a several hundred hours of MTBF hold?

A wiki is provided to answer your question(s), particularly this page. https://github.com/Angel-125/BARIS/wiki/Quality,-Condition,-and-MTBF

MTBF does not always drain simply because a part is in flight (depends on the part). It drains in certain situations like when throttled up and when staging. Once it runs out then things are most likely to break. You can increase its quality rating by launching vessels with the same parts a few times beforehand.

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2 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

A wiki is provided to answer your question(s), particularly this page. https://github.com/Angel-125/BARIS/wiki/Quality,-Condition,-and-MTBF

MTBF does not always drain simply because a part is in flight (depends on the part). It drains in certain situations like when throttled up and when staging. Once it runs out then things are most likely to break. You can increase its quality rating by launching vessels with the same parts a few times beforehand.

I have hundreds of mods and a 10x oversized system. do you think BARIS can still hold the gameplay

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25 minutes ago, Iso-Polaris said:

It doesn't seem to work well with Real Fuel.

sometimes it says the engine failed, but the thrust remains unchanged

BARIS is meant for use primarily with MOLE (and by extension the other Wild Blue Industries mods). It's safe to say that RF and other RSS companion mods were not considered in the making of BARIS. Compatibility for RF may come; I believe it's easy enough just to write patches to insert the modules for it; but Angel himself may not produce these for some time. Now that BARIS is stable, he's focusing on updating his other mods and making BARIS itself standalone.

Also, engines have a variety of failure modes.

Edited by JadeOfMaar
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56 minutes ago, Iso-Polaris said:

I have hundreds of mods and a 10x oversized system. do you think BARIS can still hold the gameplay

What sort of computer system do you have that you can have hundreds of mods? I have a pretty high end  system myself and 200 mods is starting to get to be a bit much.

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2 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

What sort of computer system do you have that you can have hundreds of mods? I have a pretty high end  system myself and 200 mods is starting to get to be a bit much.

Just a High-end gaming PC with win10 OS, most of them are small plugins and kopernicus planets

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4 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Why not just use the standard settings screen to decide whether it is enabled or not?  Actually, BARIS already requires that you go into the settings to enable it.  So why show the button if it is disabled?

That works too. Either method works, both have been used. 

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Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

Yrs, but having a nonfunctional button is not good practice.

Agreed, but that hasn't stopped RT. Technically, it's not "non-functional", it launches a settings screen. Really I'd prefer if we can just delete the folder if we're not using it - regardless of whether you turn it on and off in KSP settings on its own tab, or via a toolbar button, it's still taking up screen real estate. To me, it's a minor annoyance at most, but I don't have as many toolbar buttons as most. (I still have something like 74 mods)

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11 minutes ago, panarchist said:

Agreed, but that hasn't stopped RT. Technically, it's not "non-functional", it launches a settings screen. Really I'd prefer if we can just delete the folder if we're not using it - regardless of whether you turn it on and off in KSP settings on its own tab, or via a toolbar button, it's still taking up screen real estate. To me, it's a minor annoyance at most, but I don't have as many toolbar buttons as most. (I still have something like 74 mods)

As I mentioned, making BARIS more optional is on my radar, but the current version doesn't support that- if you delete BARIS and installed my other mods, they'll complain.

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27 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

As I mentioned, making BARIS more optional is on my radar, but the current version doesn't support that- if you delete BARIS and installed my other mods, they'll complain.

Well, my default response is "why would I want to delete BARIS?" :D

Seriously, though - this is awesome, I'm loving it so far. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes. And busy revamping my designs to survive an engine failure.

Edited by panarchist
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Wow, I'm really excited to dig into this! I built a quick MM config to add a smallish toolkit of Equipment to command pods...Not sure if 100 units is the right amount to allow quick simple repairs. @Angel-125, what would you think should be a good number for a small toolkit stored in a pod?

// Adds limited BARIS Equipment (per kerbal seat) to Command Modules
// Ignores parts that already have Equipment values declared

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!RESOURCE[Equipment],#CrewCapacity[>0]]:NEEDS[BARIS]
{
    RESOURCE
    {
        name= Equipment
        maxAmount = 100
        @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
        amount = #$maxAmount$
    }
}

Edited by Tyko
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1 hour ago, Tyko said:

Wow, I'm really excited to dig into this! I built a quick MM config to add a smallish toolkit of Equipment to command pods...Not sure if 100 units is the right amount to allow quick simple repairs. @Angel-125, what would you think should be a good number for a small toolkit stored in a pod?

// Adds limited BARIS Equipment (per kerbal seat) to Command Modules
// Ignores parts that already have Equipment values declared

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!RESOURCE[Equipment],#CrewCapacity[>0]]:NEEDS[BARIS]
{
    RESOURCE
    {
        name= Equipment
        maxAmount = 100
        @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
        amount = #$maxAmount$
    }
}

100 per crew is about right, those command pods tend to be a bit cramped. :) I think I figured out how to make a bridging plugin for BARIS. The plugin lets BARIS be an optional download and provides the basic interface needed for mods. BARIS will still be bundled with MOLE but won't be included in my other mods- only the bridging plugin will.

Edited by Angel-125
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43 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

100 per crew is about right, those command pods tend to be a bit cramped. :) I think I figured out how to make a bridging plugin for BARIS. The plugin lets BARIS be an optional download and provides the basic interface needed for mods. BARIS will still be bundled with MOLE but won't be included in my other mods- only the bridging plugin will.

Thanks! Feel free to bundle that config into your mod. I'm also working on a procedural parts container

I'm currently only using BARIS and appreciate the simplicity of a standalone download

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Some good news: I think I finally have a working solution to make BARIS optional for my mods. Like I said, this is something I wanted to do but couldn't figure out how for the initial release. BARIS will be bundled with MOLE- it's part of the original vision for the mod- but you'll be able to delete BARIS if you really want. A couple of other things I'm doing:

- Fixing a bug where, if KCT is installed, the astronaut payroll isn't available.

- Once per launch, BARIS will make a vessel reliability check, just like it does for each staging event. This will cover SSTO craft as well as add one more random element to launches. The launch reliability check will happen within a certain time frame, and if you attain orbit before the timer goes off, then nothing happens.

- Dropping KSP 1.2.2 support- that's the price you pay for BARIS being optional in my mods.

Edited by Angel-125
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