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KSP Challenge: Eve Speed Challenge!


Darth Badie

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7 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

It would be simplest to just make a clean install and start from there.

@Badie,, you just seem to have contradicted yourself. When I asked earlier about mods you seem to say that no mods at all. Now you seem to be saying that as long as it's no parts, doesn't change the physics Etc that it can be used.

Clarification please

You are right, no mods at all 

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Reading the rules carefully, I got a speed of 29 Seconds.

Spoiler

@Badie, I would say to more carefully clarify and constrain the rules. This is technically legal at this moment.

Edit - post-Forum update imgur album link: http://imgur.com/a/cAivE

Edited by qzgy
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10 hours ago, Badie said:

  • No Mods
9 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

No mods period...?

9 hours ago, Badie said:

It´s just a Fly by, no mods...

5 hours ago, Just Jim said:

But @Badie... no mods at all?

5 hours ago, The Dunatian said:

Shouldn't this be, no mods that make game play easier

5 hours ago, invision said:

any other mod that isnt giving you an edge is fine.

3 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

When I asked earlier about mods you seem to say that no mods at all.

3 hours ago, Badie said:

You are right, no mods at all 

I am confused, too. As a moderator, can I try this?

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I got round trip, Kerbin Surface to Kerbin Surface in 300d 2 hrs. I'll try and post pics to formalize the entry later.

Though it was approx. 1.8 Kt and 15 k/s dv at 90 parts.

No elegance in the design, timing, or trajectories, just umpf.

Edited by steuben
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I'm mid way into the challenge, adjusting my encounter for Eve. I am waiting until I finish to put the screenshots all in one post. However, I thought I would describe my rocket before there were a billion other replies drowning out mine. It is pretty much a normal Eve Rocket but with more engines and boosters. Since this is a fresh install I'm gonna just guesstimate my DeltaV, rather than install KER. It has around 5K-15K though I could be wildly incorrect, so don't quote me on that.

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So I finally finished the challenge. I named my rocket the Behemoth. It basically is a bunch of boosters, engines, and fuel tank strapped together with struts (Kerbin may now have a shortage of them).

Note: I know I didn't show the time or anything due to cinematic purposes and I since was doing it for fun,( or MAYBE my time was very embarrassing :P YEAR!!!!).

To be fair though, with some aerobraking I went from the surface to LKO, to LEO and back to LKO and stranded Jeb .

Screenshots Download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzng0Sy8j8UALVp3elJ2d05mNk0/view?usp=sharing 

I didn't want to use imgur, so I converted my pics into a link. 

 

Edited by JK_Kerbineer
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On 9/2/2017 at 4:40 AM, cratercracker said:

                                                                          @Badie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If not me, then who?

ANYhfuo.png

Done for everyone.

 

WOOOOW!!!! Thank you @cratercracker !!!!!! It´s pretty cool! 

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On 8/30/2017 at 4:02 PM, Badie said:

This is a challenge of speed to Eve and back back to Kerbin SOI.

  • From the launchpad to Eve -  When you start the flight the countdown begins -
  • Just  "Fly by"
  • Fastest game time 
  • No Mods and no modded parts 
  • No refueling 

Mods I forgot how much I'd miss:  KER, Trajectories, KJR, any mod that edits Nodes....  Oh Well!

Upper Xenon stages, as it turned out (added KER to work out dV after doing this), had about 17km/s in them - which I didn't use, nor overly knew about.  Given I used the other 10-12km/s, you could probably do this in under 150 days, maybe....

I got 228 days, 50 minutes.

Not the launch, I was too busy being surprised it worked on the first try. (Given I now know how much dV was in the Xenon, could have made this a LOT smaller):

RX1o6xf.png

Various issues that didn't quite explode things meant I didn't screenshot the launch, or Eve injection burn, but here is the result:

7ISIQp0.png

71 days later:

R8XLux0.png

Plotting Kerbin return burn.  Could have been faster, bigger, less like hohmann...

DWq3JtP.png

Close enough:

O1ujAkG.png

As can be seen, this route could be a lot straighter, as if gravity wasn't there, you know...

KTLh9oE.png

5500m/s at Kerbin SOI?  Not good, setting up a capture burn:

GmZzmlB.png

Adjusted when it looked likely to survive the aerobraking.  Ion stage was still attached at entry interface:

moQTF1E.png

Xenon, when exposed to a 5km/s draft, turns out to be surprisingly hypergolic.  Ablator, less so.

Iq1EWlj.png

And, landed

FkeZWCb.png

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Ok, so I'm a little confused with all the changing mod requirements.  I think we need a baseline of what is or is not allowed for all challenges.  I doubt everyone, and I certainly don't, want to be continuously creating new installs or installing/uninstalling mods every other week for this.  I already have way too many of them as it is...

So my first attempt is with the same install that I've used to do every other challenge so far.  I time warped quite a ways until the initial transfer window but the relative game time should be around 140 days.

Are imgur.com albums broken again?

LPnfUVa.png

https://imgur.com/a/koGAi

Edited by Skystorm
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Hmmmm.  I notice with every new challenge there are multiple clarification requests as to what mods may be allowed. 

Might i suggest a standard set of 'rules' for these 'official' challenges...

To be counted as a valid entry.  No mods at all of any type and no using the debug/cheat menu.

That means anyone can participate, as the ability to use mods is not an issue.

Naturally players should be free to have a go and post results with mods for fun.  And the use of mods for design and testing etc will alwayd be an option ad long as the 'proper' entry is clean.

Edited by pandaman
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10 hours ago, pandaman said:

Hmmmm.  I notice with every new challenge there are multiple clarification requests as to what mods may be allowed. 

Might i suggest a standard set of 'rules' for these 'official' challenges...

To be counted as a valid entry.  No mods at all of any type and no using the debug/cheat menu.

That means anyone can participate, as the ability to use mods is not an issue.

Naturally players should be free to have a go and post results with mods for fun.  And the use of mods for design and testing etc will alwayd be an option ad long as the 'proper' entry is clean.

it should just be no parts mod as a lot of us use mods for readouts and visuals, which have no impact on the game from a stock player.

theres no reason to have multiple install when you can just click the squad icon to bring up all stock parts in the VAB

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I accept I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, however, can someone explain how you are getting such short times? When I set up for a hohman (sp?) transfer it takes as much time to go one way as you all are getting for the round trip. Plus I would need to wait nearly a year for a return window. Obviously this is not the way to accomplish this challenge. 

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1 hour ago, invision said:

it should just be no parts mod as a lot of us use mods for readouts and visuals, which have no impact on the game from a stock player.

theres no reason to have multiple install when you can just click the squad icon to bring up all stock parts in the VAB

I don't disagree with that, but I would say that even readout only mods like KER give the user an edge over those that don't or can't use it.

A simple 'No mods, except purely aesthetic enhancements' rule should deal with that though.

The important thing is to be very clear about what is and is not permitted at the outset.  Especially when a large portion of players don't have English as a first language.  And 'No mods' is exactly that, short and clear.  

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4 hours ago, Red Shirt said:

I accept I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, however, can someone explain how you are getting such short times? When I set up for a hohman (sp?) transfer it takes as much time to go one way as you all are getting for the round trip. Plus I would need to wait nearly a year for a return window. Obviously this is not the way to accomplish this challenge. 

The trick I used is, use a transfer window planner online, eg:

http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/

And get an idea for how an ejection burn should go.  The most useful burns will be below (shorter) than the graph shows, but it'll give you an idea.  Once you've done that, play around with maneuver nodes until you get a transfer time you like. 

According to dV maps for the stock system, a Kerbin surface -> Eve Elliptical Orbit -> Kerbin should take about 6km/s of dV.  Less if you aerobrake at both Eve and Kerbin.  You can probably get that much dV off of the start of career Launch pad.  The craft I used had about 30km/s, about 16 - 17 of which was Ions.

Beyond that, get to Eve, and unlike my previous try, capture.  That gets you a 'free' turn around to point back at Kerbin and plan a new burn back.  Then burn for as long as your rocket and sanity last.......

On an similar note:

y8LE3JV.png

Same rocket as before, but it worked well enough.

4ch3qa9.png

Worked well, and used all the chemical rockets and half of the NERVA dV.

DqbVEa1.png

One overly long capture burn:

lmzWCRX.png

But nothing like the burn here, shown about 80% done.  Took an hour, with 4 ion engines.....

rmIIs78.png

And Kerbin gave, shall we say, a warm welcome:

uZM1kkt.png

 

I don't know if I've had Jeb look that scared before.....

Anyway, I believe the time to record was start - Eve SoI - Kerbin SoI:

JrBWAQf.png

 

75 days, 3 hours 13 minutes.

Edited by 1101
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I think we should continue to allow mods that don't alter the game play.  Lets focus on the challenge itself and not things like having to manually calculate the delta V of each stage by hand iteratively while designing a rocket.  After all, these challenges are meant to be fun right?

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9 hours ago, Red Shirt said:

I accept I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, however, can someone explain how you are getting such short times? When I set up for a hohman (sp?) transfer it takes as much time to go one way as you all are getting for the round trip. Plus I would need to wait nearly a year for a return window. Obviously this is not the way to accomplish this challenge. 

you want to time warp to the point your AP just touches the orbit line of the target planet, this will take some trial and error to line up a perfect shot.

when the planet is in a good spot to aim for go in front of kerblin where the sun  is shining, burn  AP and your orbit will reverse inward instead of outwards towards  duna, then after you get the marker where the planet and ship line up time warp to fix inclination and use the navball vectors to  bring orbit in as close as possible.

so good rule to remember......

burning in front of kerblin (the side the sun is on) brings orbit towards the sun

burn behind  kerblin (no sun) brings orbit outwards towards Jool

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5 hours ago, Skystorm said:

I think we should continue to allow mods that don't alter the game play.  Lets focus on the challenge itself and not things like having to manually calculate the delta V of each stage by hand iteratively while designing a rocket.  After all, these challenges are meant to be fun right?

I agree, but using a Dv calculation mod in play DOES alter gameplay.  Just having the remaining Dv info available in flight is a great help at times.

I use KER all the time, but for a ''no mods' challenge i would do my design and testing in my normal modded install, then copy the vessel into a clean install for the official entry.  That still give me an advantage over not using KER at all though, even if it is purely time saving on the design process.

I keep a 'clean' install of any update anyway.  That way i have it easily available for bug checking etc anyway.

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It doesn't have to mean that.  Whilst KSP doesn't have a fantastic amount of realism, most fuel tanks and other objects can be assumed to have a similar density.  This means that as far as dV goes, a visual 'guesstimate' will give you an idea of the mass ratio for your rocket, and if it's good enough.  As long as each stage's fuel is a good deal bigger than it's payload + engine, visually, then you should have a good mass ratio for purposes of this challenge.  It is slightly harder getting a good liftoff TWR, as you have to add more propellant and engines to do so. 

Mammoth Engines are handy as they don't lose much thrust at sea level.  Vessel Mass * 10 should be less than Number of Mammoths * 4000.  Vectors surface attach, so add them and give an extra 1000 thrust per vector, should give a good idea.  You could add SRBs, but they have a lot lower TWR (2.46) for themselves.  Vectors have about 10 times as much TWR.

The craft I used had a ludicrously high TWR (~2) in the end, so this is probably overkill as a way of planning.

Edited by 1101
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15 hours ago, invision said:

when the planet is in a good spot to aim for go in front of kerblin

Thanks Invision. I have trapped Jeb on Eve more times than I care to admit. I know how, just not how to do it quickly. The difference here seems to be for this challenge I need to revert back to the way I played in the early days - less concern about efficiency and proper transfers and more about moar boosters. My proper transfers take as long as you alls round trip. I did make it to Eve just now in 79 days but on the way back ran out of fuel. Wouldn't have mattered as it was a lousy and lengthy burn. Progress.

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