Jump to content

Does you consider Vincent Freeman as hero or fraud?


Pawelk198604

Recommended Posts

The injustice in that film was that the main character was discriminated against based solely on his genes. It's a nature-nurture drama, with the film's villains firmly choosing the side of "nature," while the contemporary audience implicitly believes he can "rise above" his genes and be more effective than they predict he could be.

By contrast, when a person is barred from becoming a pilot or astronaut due to a psychological diagnosis, that person's actual behavior and cognitive tendencies are observed directly and correlated with others to produce an estimate of the likelihood of harm to passengers, cargo, and equipment in their care. It's almost the opposite of GATTACA, in that what is being evaluated is actual rather than potential.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HebaruSan said:

The injustice in that film was that the main character was discriminated against based solely on his genes. It's a nature-nurture drama, with the film's villains firmly choosing the side of "nature," while the contemporary audience implicitly believes he can "rise above" his genes and be more effective than they predict he could be.

By contrast, when a person is barred from becoming a pilot or astronaut due to a psychological diagnosis, that person's actual behavior and cognitive tendencies are observed directly and correlated with others to produce an estimate of the likelihood of harm to passengers, cargo, and equipment in their care. It's almost the opposite of GATTACA, in that what is being evaluated is actual rather than potential.

As one who was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome (no longer recognized as such, now just "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" or ASD) in his early 40s, I can tell you that my upbringing had a lot to do with my ability to (mostly) pass as neurotypical.  I was expected to behave like a "normal" person, the world wasn't expected to cater to me.  I was punished for outbursts, told when other children tormented me (because I was different) that it was my fault -- it had to be, right? Because it happened over and over with groups who didn't know me -- and if I wanted things to be different, I had to be different.

End result was that by the time I was done with college, though others might occasionally think I was a little odd, no one would jump to the conclusion that I was mentally "defective" .  It didn't hurt that a lot of people with above-normal IQ have similar quirks (watch a few seasons of Big Bang Theory for confirmation).  I've had a driver's licence since 1976.  I could get a pilot's license if I could afford the lessons.  I can buy a gun (and have, several times), and if I commit a crime, I'll be held responsible for my actions because I know right from wrong.

Nature dictated that I'll always find human behavior somewhat puzzling, and occasionally baffling.  Nurture forced me to learn ways of (almost all the time) dealing with it anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't consider both. I have never watched the movie.

But, things are a lot more complicated than what have been assumed.

1. Same genetics may not mean same traits.

2. Traits are not necessarily genetics. This can easily be seen in actual diseases and such. Just because you were amputated doesn't mean your gene encoded that.

 

Again, I'm not sure what you're trying to pull. Regarding my previous comment that "change it slowly", well I'm not sure myself on what to change either ; It's always true that not everything is the exact same, but it all goes down to perception. So perhaps you could start with perception of public or so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vincent has successfully tested Gattaca-world regulation rules and proved that their (don't know how to accurately translate ВЛЭК)  "Flight Medical Expert Commission" should license crew members at least as often as in Russia (professionals — once per year, professionals age 40+ — twice per year, amateurs — once per 2 years) and also repeat the survey before the interplanetary expedition in a competing medical center.

So, Vincent is like a hacker who had found a bug in autopilot and used it in flight to demonstrate this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
2 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

is he a Hero or maybe a cheater? 

Are these mutually exclusive?

Behold, an insurgent that has murdered hundreds of thousands of good, decent soldiers.

960x544.jpg

If the system is unjust, a hero must cheat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And you know what ? It turns out, it doesn't have to be your genes or your physique that's different - it could just be your occupation. Or your ancestor's occupation. Or your ancestor's ancestor's occupation. And so on...

Or in some cases, it's just out of bad luck.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reading "rare earth" (i have not watched the videos), while the hypothesis has some interesting reason in it when projecting back the history of the solar system, it brings us close to anthropocentrism and creationism.

@Pawelk198604, reading your posts i can only advise you to break the circle of your inner monologue and actually do something, focused and concentrated. Stop thinking about your genes, you can't change them, but you can change your life. Forget the wish to become a pilot, like most if not all of us here it will not work, not only because of your autism but also because of age and because the market is satisfied. Growth rates are low, and just like 15-20 years ago, people will start flying for very little money just to keep their licenses. And, if i may object: Pilots are just better bus drivers ... ;-)

Edited by Green Baron
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

 Vincent :is he a Hero or maybe a cheater? 

As long as we're discussing a fictional character in a movie, then I would consider him both.

He cheated to get into a program that would normally keep him out due to his genetics, fooled everybody, but busted his butt to earn a place among the "elite".

So Vincent could be considered a revolutionary in a way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To answer one needs more information about the system he was usurping.

Was he the victim of an unfair system which discriminated against people of "lower" genetic "value"?

Or was he disgruntled that he was not born into the profession he wanted and therefore broke the rules to change that?

He could be a hero, breaking out of a broken system.

Or he could be a criminal, putting other peoples lives and livelihoods at risk for his own self satisfaction.

 

I dont think it is conclusively shown to be the latter, and the film obviously wants us to believe the former, so I have no problem going with that, and we just hope that the system he overrode was not essential to anybody's immediate safety (such as: the person whose seat he took? I hope that wasnt the designated mission surgeon or anything like that.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/21/2019 at 11:18 AM, p1t1o said:

To answer one needs more information about the system he was usurping.

Was he the victim of an unfair system which discriminated against people of "lower" genetic "value"?

Or was he disgruntled that he was not born into the profession he wanted and therefore broke the rules to change that?

He could be a hero, breaking out of a broken system.

Or he could be a criminal, putting other peoples lives and livelihoods at risk for his own self satisfaction.

 

I dont think it is conclusively shown to be the latter, and the film obviously wants us to believe the former, so I have no problem going with that, and we just hope that the system he overrode was not essential to anybody's immediate safety (such as: the person whose seat he took? I hope that wasnt the designated mission surgeon or anything like that.)

I think he acted like Captain Kirk in The Kobayashi Maru Test ;) 

 

Edited by Pawelk198604
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...