Neb5555

Baris Appreciation Thread

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Hello first post here but very long time player of years and years. I play a very heavy moded setup.

 I consider many mods essential to play KSP with including:

KCT, MKS with TAC life support, Tech Tree mods and Interstellar to name just a few.

 

I have been on holiday the last ten days Sunny Italy (very warm better then rainy UK) and i saw a new mod which i was very excited to try when I returned home. Baris - Building a Rocket Isn't Simple.

 

I read the threads and wikis and thought the potential for this mod is very great. I saw it as game changing just like mods such as KCT,MKS . I got very excited about it read the thread daily watched the work that Angel had put into it. Its obviously very high quality. You can tell he gave it much thought.

Then the flames started. The complaints. And then sadly Angel gave up in due course. I never got to try the mod and my flight returns today. How sad.

 

So why this thread???

 

Well I feel like mod creators sometimes are under appreciated. They work for free for enjoyment they should be given positive praise. Now I know this thread will not change anything. But it would be nice if we could show some collective appreciation as a community. Please use this thread to post positive thoughts regarding mod creators. Post what you appreciate and how much you love their mods. You may never know we might even change Angels mind. Lets see how high a post count we can make.

 

Let me Start. "Building a Rocket isn't Simple" looked awesome as it added a new depth to KSP that was lacking. Well done Angel your mods are awesome keep up the hard work.

 

 

One rule for this thread. No negative feedback or else.

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@Neb5555 I just want to say that this is an amazing first post. I also love BARIS for its balance of complexity and simplicity, it's tweakability, and the overall changes it brings to the game.

Edited by TheRagingIrishman

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3 hours ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

-snip-

I like, but I have a problem with BARIS because on one side, it's kinda fun having to react to the failures, but on the other side, it's not fun having my shuttle's RCS and OMS fail when trying to do STS-1 for @michal.don's shuttle challenge.

Overall, I think that BARIS is a nice mod, which gave me a reason to practice RTLS aborts for the shuttle.

Edited by Kerbal101
see mod post below

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12 minutes ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

...it's not fun having my shuttle's RCS and OMS fail when trying to do STS-1 for @michal.don's shuttle challenge.

Then why did you install a faliure mod?

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Okay this thread got off track very quickly. Let me restate the rule

 

2 hours ago, Neb5555 said:

 

One rule for this thread. No negative feedback or else.

 

Remember this thread is not to discuss the ups and downs of part failure mods start your own thread for this, but rather express appreciation for the hard work our modders put into their work.

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3 hours ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

I like, but I have a problem with BARIS because on one side, it's kinda fun having to react to the failures, but on the other side, it's not fun having my shuttle's RCS and OMS fail when trying to do STS-1 for @michal.don's shuttle challenge.

:mad: This is an appreciation thread. :mad:

Anyway Appreciation! Angel is an amazingly thoughtful modder who goes above and beyond to incorporate an unparalleled level of documentation and configurability to complex and crunchy addons such as this (and snacks life support, and pathfinder colonization, etc...) Also he likes and strives to achieve pork-a-like! What's not to appreciate!

Edited by passinglurker
reinstated rebuttal

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1 hour ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

I like, but hate BARIS because on one side, it's kinda fun having to react to the failures, but on the other side, it's not fun having my shuttle's RCS and OMS fail when trying to do STS-1 for @michal.don's shuttle challenge.

Overall, I think that BARIS is a nice mod, which gave me a reason to practice RTLS aborts for the shuttle.

This is not a request thread. And if BARIS burns you, you're posting in the wrong place, sorry. :)

Anyway... As with any mod Angel makes, everything, and I mean everything, configurable. Nearly everything can even be switched off separately of the next. The man poured his soul into making the wiki and providing options for folks to make BARIS easier on them, but in the end the whole point of BARIS is so that things eventually break and kerbals need to get out and fix things.

Angel had his thread locked and took down his mod because people don't read. They don't take the time to test a gameplay mod and see how flexible it can become for them, and they even see a very wrong purpose for a mod (like everyone who wants MKS just for its parts).

BARIS is a game-changer. It's a big boy's mod (or big girl's mod). But like all of Angel's mods, BARIS is configurable beyond belief.

I consider BARIS a great mod as I don't play career and this is one of those mods that keeps Science or Sandbox mode eventful in the long-run, and gives you something other than fuel to carry into deep space, or produce off-world. It presents these things and possibly more without directly presenting the option of death to kerbals in flight (like any life support mod).

So I'm hoping that Angel reopens BARIS to all, just because.

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2 hours ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

I wanted extra difficulty, but I would like it if you could disable the mod for a craft.

Quote

It's Too Hard!

You have a number of options to make things easier on your vessels:

  1. Lower the Difficulty Modifier.
  2. Disable the option for part types to fail for parts that you think are too mission critical to fail.
  3. Lower the number of Reliability checks per day.
  4. Don't allow parts to explode during launch failures or during post-launch activities.
  5. Lower the number of flights it takes to gain flight experience.
  6. Conduct static fire tests and/or use the Test Bench to gain flight experience.
  7. Disable the option for parts to wear out.
  8. Disable the option for launch failures.
  9. Disable the need for skilled repair kerbals, the need for Equipment, and/or the need for an EVA to conduct repairs.
  10. Edit the values in the Constants.cfg file and/or the MM_BARIS.cfg file.

Right there is an example of how he just kept bending over backwards for his users, and they weren't appreciative.

I want to say so many things, but I would get permabanned if I did.

Edited by Dman979
Removed personal attacks.

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I was lucky enough to install B.A.R.I.S before it was taken down. It was the funnest mod I have ever played, and it worked very well for my semi-realistic download. The pressure on modmakers must be immense, I can barely imagine having someone constantly nitpicking you work, and getting passive aggressive messages every day. And, considering how fun BARIS was before Angel took it down, it would have been really really great farther down the line. 

R.I.P BARIS.

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I saw BARIS, and thought it looked great. I know @Angel-125 works a hell of a lot harder on his mods than i do, and i know he had poured hours into this one. 

I hope you haven't deleted the files themselves. I looked in the GitHub repo and saw they were gone...

It was a great mod. If people are negitive, or are to demanding, just ignore them! Get passive-aggressive, report them. 

Please dont be discouraged, becuase you, I, and everyone knows that in this community, if you fall, we will catch you. 

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2 hours ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

I wanted extra difficulty, but I would like it if you could disable the mod for a craft.

Its perfectly fine to post constructive criticism in order to help improve the mod, but please remember that:

- the choice of words really matters,

- demanding something from modders is absolutely not okay.


Mod makers are not responsible to implement or even listen to any of the requests at all.
If you feel that the particular mod is lacking something, its much better to express your thoughts as a constructive list.

Remember that they are doing it using their own spare time and sharing their work with audience for whatever altruistic reason.
As such, demanding something from them is a really bad idea.

They are publishing their work to share with others in an as-is state, they are not in the slightest degree obligated to modify it to suit wishes of others.
The best way to be heard by them, is to be polite, constructive and non-intrusive.

 

As such, some posts have been corrected. Please stay friendly and constructive, folks. :)

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5 hours ago, minepagan said:

Angel just ragequit KSP modding

WHAT?!?!... Say it aint so?... Not only does he have one of the best, complete SUITE of mods out there, he is a TOTALLY nice guy...Very approachable and extremely helpful and patient with wanna-be modders' questions and comments... (Along with the MANY other actual modders who take the time to help up-and-comers)...

Edited by Stone Blue

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Having read through the relevant thread, I didn't really think anyone was attacking him or badgering him per se, everyone just seemed genuinely interested in the mod, and reporting their feelings/impressions of it. I think often times on the internet given only words to read in black and white we ascribe our own feelings or worries onto them and perhaps there was some miscommunication at fault here. Granted most of the feedback was some what negative or "nitpickey" so I can certainly see where Angel started to feel unappreciated and decided it wasn't worth the constant headaches. Or maybe at the end of the day he just really liked his mod the way it was, and didn't want to change it to please others...that's fine too.

Although I didn't personally download or try BARIS, it seemed like a really great idea. Now that it's no longer available, I regret not downloading it when I first checked it out. I'm sad to see any addition; certainly one as well thought out and executed as this removed from KSP. However I respect his decision if he no longer feels like developing it further.

Anyways I think it's plain that everyone involved feels very poorly that it turned out this way, never intended this, and if anything were maybe just a little too excited about being part of Angel's mod. Whatever he decides I hope he can at least see that however stressful or annoying the feedback was to him, it was just a product of the interest his mod stirred up in the community, which is ultimately not only a good thing but also a compliment to his imagination and abilities as a modder.

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25 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Anyways I think it's plain that everyone involved feels very poorly that it turned out this way, never intended this, and if anything were maybe just a little too excited about being part of Angel's mod. Whatever he decides I hope he can at least see that however stressful or annoying the feedback was to him, it was just a product of the interest his mod stirred up in the community, which is ultimately not only a good thing but also a compliment to his imagination and abilities as a modder.

This was a really good response, and I think it is so painful to see this one go because it is so complex, well thought out, and deep in its ambitions. BARIS completely changes how you play the game, and I think a lot of the issues came from a misunderstanding of that fact.I hope that he decides to reopen the thread and to share it with the community once again, because, frankly, I would like to see a streamer or Youtuber use this in a series. 

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3 hours ago, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

I like, but I have a problem with BARIS because on one side, it's kinda fun having to react to the failures, but on the other side, it's not fun having my shuttle's RCS and OMS fail when trying to do STS-1 for @michal.don's shuttle challenge.

Overall, I think that BARIS is a nice mod, which gave me a reason to practice RTLS aborts for the shuttle.

You do realise that complaining like this is exactly why @Angel-125 locked the BARIS thread in the first place?

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5 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Granted most of the feedback was some what negative or "nitpickey" so I can certainly see where Angel started to feel unappreciated and decided it wasn't worth the constant headaches. Or maybe at the end of the day he just really liked his mod the way it was, and didn't want to change it to please others...that's fine too.

Its not that he didn't want to change it for others Angel isn't hydrophobic to feedback and to suggest that is a terrible mis-characterization. The crux of the problem is Angel had already went above and beyond to let people tweak this mod to taste and they still nitpicked and lazily expected it to be tweaked for them. Whats the point of going through all that work if people will just ignore it? people [snip] shouldn't be explaining themselves they should be apologizing.

Edited by Vanamonde
Please don't single people out for blame.

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Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the sentiments. :) I'll consider re-opening the thread, but when I get comments like [snip], it shows me that players aren't reading the manual despite having an extensive KSPedia and Wiki and in-game hints to read them. I knew from the start that BARIS' default settings wouldn't appeal to everyone- that's why it's the most configurable mod that I've ever made. My expectation was that players would give BARIS a try, learn how to change the settings, and then adjust things to their liking. If that didn't work, they could simply uninstall BARIS and move on. Unfortunately, not everyone shared that expectation, and complained when things didn't work the way they wanted to. I listed as much as I could, and changed a mod that was most definitely not beta, but I don't have time for people who aren't willing to RTFM- I've got other projects to work on besides BARIS.

Thanks again for your support. :)

Edited by Vanamonde
Please don't single people out for blame.

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I am sorry that BARIS was ended, and I understand that feelings are strong about this topic, but it is never acceptable to attack other forum members. Please tone it down guys.

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@Angel-125 @NISSKEPCSIM There will always be people, who mismanage to find or read the fine manual pages. Most of them don't actually mean it and  a hint about manual/faq existence will suffice.
The mod maker is not obligated to answer all or any inquiries, regular users can contribute with help and guidance - if they want.
Plus we are always here to help you, don't hesitate to ping us if you feel that matters are getting out of control  :)  

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@Angel-125 All I can say is the person I keep seeing come up on this forum has complained about (atleast) ten things on the mod I'm currently working on, Including the names of the pods.:mad: Please don't think this is a representation of all of us on the forum. Make things the way you want them [snip] 

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