Roads to Duna: No Moar Boosters (UPDATES!)

[icantmakemodels]

@sevenperforce, for Loop The Loop, is it okay if I leave some drop tanks in an elliptical Kerbin orbit? I've designed them with probe cores and solars, so I can recover them and reattach later.

[sevenperforce]

3 minutes ago, icantmakemodels said:

@sevenperforce, for Loop The Loop, is it okay if I leave some drop tanks in an elliptical Kerbin orbit? I've designed them with probe cores and solars, so I can recover them and reattach later.

Yes, it is. It's fine to discard the drop tanks entirely if you want. Loop The Loop merely requires that some portion of your transfer vehicle remain in Duna orbit during your landing mission, and that same portion ends up in Kerbin orbit. It is intended to encourage the creation of a transfer hab (Stayin' Alive) like an Aldrin Cycler or the Hermes from The Martian while rewarding Apollo-style Orbit Rendezvous missions. You could use a completely expendable transfer injection stage as long as you still bring the Duna Orbiter back to LKO, ready for another mission.

[Human Person]

Update on my ITS Mission.

The spacecraft was optimized (it's sort of stable on reentry now and can do oxidizer mining on Duna) and I managed to fly and land the Booster.

Full album with here: https://imgur.com/a/DYh2l

 

14% of the booster's fuel was locked and I used only that to boost back and land. 

Unfortunately, the radiator panels I used as engine shroud blew up on touchdown, but everything else remained intact.

 

Will this still count as reusable? (I could do it again and simply take the radiator panels off, but I'd rather not)

Is it ok, If I simply keep the same amount of fuel locked for future launches and just pretend to land it?

 

[sevenperforce]

9 minutes ago, Physics Student said:

Update on my ITS Mission.

The spacecraft was optimized (it's sort of stable on reentry now and can do oxidizer mining on Duna) and I managed to fly and land the Booster.

Full album with here: https://imgur.com/a/DYh2l

14% of the booster's fuel was locked and I used only that to boost back and land. 

Unfortunately, the radiator panels I used as engine shroud blew up on touchdown, but everything else remained intact.

Will this still count as reusable? (I could do it again and simply take the radiator panels off, but I'd rather not)

Is it ok, If I simply keep the same amount of fuel locked for future launches and just pretend to land it?

 

Spectacular! I love your use of the Mk2 parts. This definitely counts as reusable and there's no need to go through the individual landings of every other booster.

[purpleivan]

Quick question about "Stayin' Alive"... the rule says that living space is for the "transfer to and from Duna". Is this the transfer to and from Duna orbit, or does the extra accommodation have to go down to the Duna surface as well?

[sevenperforce]

16 minutes ago, purpleivan said:

Quick question about "Stayin' Alive"... the rule says that living space is for the "transfer to and from Duna". Is this the transfer to and from Duna orbit, or does the extra accommodation have to go down to the Duna surface as well?

Transfer only. Think of an Aldrin Cycler or something like the Hermes, where the crew uses a cramped capsule to get down to Mars and back up again, but can enjoy larger accommodations for the lengthy trips back and forth.

[sevenperforce]

After a great deal of effort, I've managed to pull off what I think is the highest possible set of multipliers: On Tongues of Fire, Old School, Slow Climb, Stayin' Alive, Loop The Loop, Consistency, Justin Case, A Solid Plan, and Rollin'.

Orbital Assembly

Spoiler

The plan was to orbit each component individually and then transfer fuel in as needed, increasing the effective payload of each launch. To start with, the reusable transhab!

The transhab's tanks are launched mostly empty; they will be filled in subsequent launches. Launch mass for the first stage is 5.293 tonnes.

Transhab launch:

Spoiler

My hacked-together multipurpose LV.

Lifting off briskly!

Rapid gravity turn.

Parallel booster jettison.

Fairing jettison.

Powering into orbit.

Orbited!

Here's what it looks like in space, with panels extended. I'll keep the LV upper stage attached, temporarily, to provide attitude control during the next stage of assembly.

What we see here are two components: the lander assembly, comprising two lander cans, Puff engines, airbrakes, and a rover, and the skycrane assembly, to remotely lower the Duna Ascent Vehicle to the ground ahead of time.

All tanks are fully fueled since this is below the target payload. I'll transfer fuel out of the launch vehicle for this launch in order to make up the remainder.

Lander assembly launch:

Spoiler

Timing the rendezvous.

Same launch vehicle, different fairing.

Booster sep.

Lining up with the target.

Matching orbits.

That's a good intercept.

All set up for docking approach.

Coming in slowly.

Docked! I'll start by transferring monoprop out of the LV's tank into the transhab's monoprop tank.

250 units (1 tonne) transferred.

Now fueling some of the transhab tanks. Total of 0.1 tonnes of oxidizer and 0.603 tonnes of liquid fuel, for a total second-launch payload of 5.298 tonnes.

LV upper stage separation and deorbit.

Here's the solid-fueled Duna ascent vehicle. A single Hammer booster, deeply thrust-limited, serves as the sustainer engine. A ladder is attached to the reaction wheel for roll and attitude control. Four of the radial separatrons fire at launch to raise TWR, while the remaining ten separatrons fire in pairs as desired (and also provide the post-coast circularization impulse).

Once in orbit, the decoupler removes the crew module, which consists of a single RTG, a small reaction wheel, two command chairs, a small monoprop tank with three RCS thrusters, two batteries, and a docking port. The whole thing is enclosed in a fairing. The monoprop tank launches empty. Total launch mass is 5.298 tonnes, which will be the maximum launch mass for this mission.

Launching the Ascent Vehicle:

Spoiler

Liftoff and gravity turn.

Boosters away.

Fairing-in-a-fairing is always nice.

Matching orbits.

Approaching.

RCS for docking.

Docked! As you can see, the skycrane launched along with the lander cans will detach to take the solid-fueled ascent vehicle down to the surface.

Deorbiting the LV for the ascent vehicle.

Now, remember how the Transhab for the first launch was just 5.293 tonnes rather than 5.298 kg? Let's fix that by transferring 1.2 units of monopropellant from the first launch vehicle's upper stage into the monprop tank on the ascent vehicle (ignore the disappearing fairing on the ascent vehicle; it's just a visual glitch). This increases the payload on that first launch by 4.8 kg, making it 5.2978 tonnes.

Deorbiting the initial launch vehicle.

Now, it's time for a fueling mission to top off that transhab!

Pretty darn simple.

Refueling mission:

Spoiler

Up, up, and away!

Getting better at timing the rendezvouses.

Nice Korolev Cross.

Orbit matching.

Approach...

Docked!

Lots of transfers going on here.

Topping off the RCS tank on the ascent vehicle.

All in all, I transferred in 315.2 kg of monopropellant and 4,982.3 kg of bipropellant for a total of 5.292 tonnes.

Decoupling the refueling mission.

Deorbiting!

Finally, the crew vehicle!

As you can see, we've got a lander can, a crew cabin, two Sparks, two airbrakes, a heat shield, and some fuel. I cut down the amount of ablator on the heat shield to save mass.

Because we have a bit of extra mass budget on this mission, I went ahead and added a tiny drop tank:

Isn't it adorable?

Crewed launch and final docking:

Spoiler

Whole assembly inside a nice LES, just for the heck of it.

Crew strapped in and ready to go.

Liftoff!

So far so good.

And, random launch abort! The separatrons on the LES help with some extra TWR.

Launch tower jettison.

Airbrakes out, using internal reaction wheels for pointing.

Spark ignition.

Bleeding off velocity.

Burnout.

Splashdown ripped off the airbrakes and engines, but it's survivable!

Back to the launch pad for the actual launch.

Up we go!

Booster jettison.

Fairing and launch tower jettison. Docking not shown. After docking, I transferred in 2.415 tonnes of bipropellant, bringing total payload to 5.295 tonnes.

Here we are, ready to head to Duna!

Mission to Duna

Spoiler

Found a good transfer window: Year 5, Day 365. It'll take about 1.1 km/s of dV.

Departure

Warping around to the transfer.

Spoiler

Everybody's ready to go.

Set up the transfer node.

One orbit in advance, I'm burning off the fuel in my drop tank, just to set the periapsis where I want it for subsequent sequential burns.

And back around, drop tank jettisoned, burning for the transfer.

Very gradually raising apoapsis.

A little further along...

All right, this will be the final burn.

Full throttle.

Almost to escape.

There's my encounter.

Fine adjustments to drop periapsis.

Long transfer warp!

Arrival

Here we are inside Duna's SOI!

Spoiler

First things first, I need to correct this inclination, or I'll never be able to get into an equatorial orbit. Setting Ike as my target allows me to fix that.

Much better.

This should provide aerocapture.

Transferring all my fuel as far forward as I can to maintain aerodynamic stability.

Duna approaches!

Finally getting a good view of the Red Planet.

Retracting solar panels to protect them.

Here goes nothing!

Rear airbrakes open to help keep CoP back.

Ablator holding up well.

Still not out of the woods yet.

Captured!

Coming out of the atmosphere and I'm still on a wonky slingshot around Ike, so I'll burn off some monoprop to bring myself down out of Ike's SOI.

Monoprop burn.

That's better!

 

Second segment of the mission will post next!

Edited September 27, 2017 by sevenperforce

[LordOfMinecraft99]

Can I use Ven's Stock Revamp?

[sevenperforce]

7 minutes ago, LordOfMinecraft99 said:

Can I use Ven's Stock Revamp?

Does it change the masses or attributes of the parts you'll be using for the transfer vehicle?

[LordOfMinecraft99]

1 minute ago, sevenperforce said:

Does it change the masses or attributes of the parts you'll be using for the transfer vehicle?

No- It just changes the Assets.

[sevenperforce]

6 minutes ago, LordOfMinecraft99 said:

No- It just changes the Assets.

Sure.

[Aegolius13]

Cool challenge!  A couple questions on the bonus points:

-To get Elon Style, I assume the ship does not literally need to be able to go back to orbit after they've landed at Kerbin, right?   I think I have a design that can get from LKO to Duna and back to Kerbin surface with no staging, but no way in heck it can make it back to orbit with its little Terrier and no fuel left in the tank.

-Also, Elon Style is compatible with Brute Force, right?  So that if I assemble a completely reusable craft that does everything from LKO on, and send up each component fully fueled, I can get both?  

-To get Consistency, Good Sir, you do have to use literally the same design of launch vehicle, or does it have to be literally the same craft?  I.e., if I use the same model of expendable rocket to launch each part, does that work?  Or do I need some kind of completely resuable launch vehicle that can carry each part up, land, and then repeat?  

 

[sevenperforce]

13 hours ago, Aegolius13 said:

Cool challenge!  A couple questions on the bonus points:

-To get Elon Style, I assume the ship does not literally need to be able to go back to orbit after they've landed at Kerbin, right?   I think I have a design that can get from LKO to Duna and back to Kerbin surface with no staging, but no way in heck it can make it back to orbit with its little Terrier and no fuel left in the tank.

-Also, Elon Style is compatible with Brute Force, right?  So that if I assemble a completely reusable craft that does everything from LKO on, and send up each component fully fueled, I can get both?  

-To get Consistency, Good Sir, you do have to use literally the same design of launch vehicle, or does it have to be literally the same craft?  I.e., if I use the same model of expendable rocket to launch each part, does that work?  Or do I need some kind of completely resuable launch vehicle that can carry each part up, land, and then repeat?  

To get Elon Style, you just have to get the ship back to Kerbin's surface. Don't have to go back to orbit again.

Elon Style is definitely compatible with Brute Force, even though I didn't originally expect anyone to pull that off. @Kergarin managed it.

Consistency requires the same LV design, not the same physical vehicle.

[Laie]

My latest assembly kit: Silly Duna. Because if you want to do ISRU, you have to overdo it.

In a nutshell, the Silly Duna has excessive fuel capacity, both overall and Liquid Fuel in particular (because as per the challenge rules, more oxidizer can be made easily at any time). One round of ISRU allows it to make two launches and fully refuel the transfer vehicle.

Terse mission report and gallery here. I notice that I don't have a single good view of the cargo bay with contents. The above picture is the best I have for the time being.

              dry  +fuel total(kg)
SD core       2925 +1060 3985
SD 2 boosters 2260 +1700 3960
SD ISRU       2431 +1500 3951
crew transfer 3690  +300 3990
crew recov    2560 +1400 3957

Propulsive landing, no nukes, ladders, double crew quarters, fully reusable everything, consistent LVs, rover. Heaviest launch was the crew tansfer vehicle at 3990kg.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Laie

[Aegolius13]

I'm pleased to present the following, mostly successful Duna mission.  My design philosophy was pretty simple: build a fully reusuable rocket-based ship that handles the entire trip, with five equalish-mass components and no refueling.  I also tried to avoid the need for precision alignment of parts, since I'm just too lazy for that sort of thing.  

But as often happens, a simple idea can get difficult in the execution. In particular, those legs ended up very draggy and had low impact tolerance.  Delta-v was also at a premium with no staging.  But thanks to Duna's forgiving atmosphere, I was able stretch my limited delta-v budget just far enough.  

(Oh, and I swear by the Kraken's tentacles, I came up with this thing before I saw @Laie's excellent design).  

Pic of ship on Duna's surface:

Full album:

https://imgur.com/a/zviKZ

The mass specs are:

• Cabin: 2.165 tons
• Hub: 2.205 tons
• Legs (all three identical): 2.232 tons.  

I believe I met the following bonuses: Old School (3%), Brute Force (12%), Slow Climb (4%), Elon Style (25%), Consistency, Good Sir (6%).  

Thanks again for a fun and refreshingly-different challenge idea, @sevenperforce!

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Aegolius13
Added sample pic since album not embedding.

[Laie]

I like the legs. The lifesavers do act as a kind of supension, don't they?

[cratercracker]

@sevenperforce

Sorry, my imgur bugged out, here is the patch!

------------------------

"Blizzard takes you slowly, just like if you were sleep"

------------------------------------

Sorry.

Edited October 6, 2017 by cratercracker

[Aegolius13]

On 10/5/2017 at 10:56 AM, Laie said:

I like the legs. The lifesavers do act as a kind of supension, don't they?

I didn't notice that kind of effect... the legs tended to explode if I landed at even a hair above the list collision limit of 6 m/s.  I used the toroidal tanks mostly to dial in the exact amount of fuel I needed.  

[Aegolius13]

On 10/4/2017 at 8:32 PM, Aegolius13 said:

I'm pleased to present the following, mostly successful Duna mission.  My design philosophy was pretty simple: build a fully reusuable rocket-based ship that handles the entire trip, with five equalish-mass components and no refueling.  I also tried to avoid the need for precision alignment of parts, since I'm just too lazy for that sort of thing.  

But as often happens, a simple idea can get difficult in the execution. In particular, those legs ended up very draggy and had low impact tolerance.  Delta-v was also at a premium with no staging.  But thanks to Duna's forgiving atmosphere, I was able stretch my limited delta-v budget just far enough.  

(Oh, and I swear by the Kraken's tentacles, I came up with this thing before I saw @Laie's excellent design).  

Pic of ship on Duna's surface:

Full album:

https://imgur.com/a/zviKZ

The mass specs are:

• Cabin: 2.165 tons
• Hub: 2.205 tons
• Legs (all three identical): 2.232 tons.  

I believe I met the following bonuses: Old School (3%), Brute Force (12%), Slow Climb (4%), Elon Style (25%), Consistency, Good Sir (6%).  

Thanks again for a fun and refreshingly-different challenge idea, @sevenperforce!

 

Argh, I belately realized I probably did NOT do Elon Style right, since my launch craft were not resuable.  I can't leave Elon hanging like that, so I re-did the challenge with the same ship (thus same mass stats).  But this time I used my beloved Caravel-class SSTO rocket to deliver the components to orbit in a fully reusable fashion.  Everything after ship assembly was basically the same. 

New and improved album at:

https://imgur.com/a/xFcH1

 

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

I've wanted to do this challenge since it was introduced. I was in the middle of a Jool 5 and an Eve mission though, so I couldn't get to it right away. Not sure why this one appealed to me so much, cuz it's way outside my comfort zone.  If you put my five modules together, it would easily be the smallest ship I've built since my first few weeks in the game (not counting satellites). I never try the "low cost" or "low mass" challenges, because it's just not my style of play. After all this time, I still enjoy the Duna/Ike system though, so I figured I'd give it a shot. Haven't looked at the other entries, cuz I didn't wanna be influenced by them, but I did look at the leaderboard. Then I realized I needn't have worried. Those entries are all ridiculously small. I won't be able to top 'em, but I think I had a pretty good mission. My largest module is 7.1 tons. Pretty sure I'm eligible for "Consistency, Good Sir", "Old School", "Slow Climb", "Justin Case", "They See Me Rollin", and "A Solid Plan". Kudos to @sevenperforce for an awesome challenge. After coming up with the idea itself, I think figuring out a way to score it is often the toughest part of coming up with a challenge. Not sure how you came up with all the different bonuses, but I definitely like 'em. It gives you a lot of different options to plan your mission (I'm gonna go back and see what everybody else did; I'm betting some of them are gonna be wildly different). One question I had was whether you had considered a bonus for sending the Duna Ascent Vehicle on a separate transfer from the crew and lander modules. Just curious. Anyway, here is my mission. Hope it measures up to the other entries.

 

Here is the Duna Ascent Vehicle, at 6.3 tons.

 

The separate transfer stage for the Duna Ascent Vehicle, at 7.116 tons. This is my heaviest module.

 

 

Main transfer stage for the crew and lander modules, at 6.97.

 

 

The lander module and rover, at 7.097 tons.

 

 

The return stage, at 6.877 tons. Could've certainly made it lighter. It's a bit unorthodox with the 3 Mk1 Command Modules, but I kinda like the way it turned out. And I didn't need to worry about the lower heat tolerances of the Mk1 Lander Can and crew cabin during the return. Seemed like a good trade off.

 

 

Full album below. Hope you guys dig it.

https://imgur.com/a/u5iBA

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Cpt Kerbalkrunch

[Bottle Rocketeer 500]

@sevenperforce Is it OK if I use parts mods for the transfer vehicle/other stuff because I use TAC-LS, and otherwise, the mission would be impossible?

[Ultimate Steve]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I was this close to working on my mission report again! But I found this! AAAAAA!

Starting KSP right now. I will make an attempt.

[Ultimate Steve]

I just wasted my entire evening.

The rules say no command seats for the transfer ship or the lander. However, I saw the part about being allowed to have command seats on a separately landed ascent vehicle. Except I didn't read the "separately landed" part. Thus, because of my ignorance, my submission is invalid. Which is a shame because I had a mass per launch of <2t.

Oh, whatever, I'll sum it up anyway, if nobody minds, even if it doesn't count.

Spoiler

Propulsion module. Mass 1.92t.

Fuel module. Mass 1.84t.

Lander. 1.355t.

Crew section and re-entry vehicle. Going by KER, 1.84t.

So, highest mass is 1.92t.

I used the same lifter for everything.

First stage is a big SRB, second stage is 3 toroidal tanks and a spark.

The lander on ascent.

Fully assembled mothership in orbit. Mass is 6.96t at this point.

Departing Kerbin.

Duna Aerobrake.

Landing on Duna.

Landed on Duna.

Takeoff from Duna.

Having docked I rearrange the ship so I can jettison the lander and the fuel tank.

Departing Duna.

Aerocapture at Kerbin. Solar panel melted off, and nearly did everything else.

Several aerobraking passes later, suborbital.

At this point I noticed an extreme coincidence - look in the middle of the upper left quarter of the image. See something? I swear, this was completely random. I did not plan it whatsoever.

Engine assisted parachute landing.

And, landed.

 

 

If those sort of landers were legal, my score would be:

1.92t - highest mass.

Old school - no nukes/ions - 3%.

The point behind slow climb is that you don't need a jetpack. However, I didn't need a jetpack or ladders... I'm not going to count it.

Consistency, good sir - use the exact same launch vehicle - 6% (I changed the fairing shape, but I'm pretty sure that's allowed, but if it's not, well, it doesn't matter anyways because my entry doesn't count).

0.91*1.92 = 1.7472.

 

Except I'm ignorant and unobservant, so it doesn't count. Thank you for teaching me two lessons - both how to make tiny crafts, and to ALWAYS read the rules 5 times before even considering completing a challenge.

Have a nice day.

[DAL59]

On 10/27/2017 at 11:51 PM, Ultimate Steve said:

See something?

No...what is it?  

[Ultimate Steve]

1 hour ago, DAL59 said:

No...what is it?  

That that be an easter egg!