Reactordrone Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: Possible death throes of the booster, seen from China. Given that the launch was in the daytime in Russia and it was also daytime where I am in Australia it seems unlikely that it's still flying around at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: So did the escape tower pull the capsule away, or not? This is what's confusing me right now. It would appear that it did not, that the crew made an abort using engines like Soyuz 18-a or maybe with the third stage, but that seems odd given that right now they're saying a booster failed to separate properly and hit the core stage... No. The incident happened after LES seperation. The hit was not very severe, it did not cause an explosion. Spacecraft engines should be more than powerful than enough for steering clear of the booster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 41 minutes ago, tater said: Ahh. The good ol' explosives. Did the solid rocket motors fire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) The ISS crew may stay there by the end of January https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/632965&edit-text= Soyuz (rocket) launches planned for 2018 may be postponed/cancelled. https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/632973&edit-text= Edited October 11, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwingKang Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Xd the great said: No. The incident happened after LES seperation. The hit was not very severe, it did not cause an explosion. Spacecraft engines should be more than powerful than enough for steering clear of the booster. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45822845 So the BBC got something wrong? Maybe they mixed "jettison" and "deploy" ? Edited October 11, 2018 by EwingKang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 They’re feeling well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 I've seen some speculation that the LES tower might have been the cause of the problem (perhaps it impacted the vehicle?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickSawyer Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I'm willing to wait patiently for a more official report than just rumors. Gotta admit, though... This'll light a fire under both SpaceX and Boeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Glad everyone is alright. Expedition 57 is still planning to use MS09 with the hole in it, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 The moment my internet goes out so I can't see a launch, something interesting happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVaughan Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Xd the great said: No. The incident happened after LES seperation. The hit was not very severe, it did not cause an explosion. Spacecraft engines should be more than powerful than enough for steering clear of the booster. I thought the LES wasn't supposed to separate until about 40 seconds after the boosters separated. So the LES should have been available at the time of failure. The booster did seem to be turning sideways, so I guess it's possible that aerodynamic forces destroyed the LES before it could be activated. (It also possible that it was used and a translator mistranslated LES activated as LES jettisoned). If aerodynamic loads did destroy the LES before it could be used, then that sound like a design issue, and I think it's unlikely they could fix that and certify a new design in the next 3 months. Edited October 11, 2018 by AVaughan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Okay... I've looked on NSF and they are saying the landing site is about 260 miles away from the launch site. So the question remains, did they briefly enter space? 1 minute ago, AVaughan said: I thought the LES wasn't supposed to separate until about 40 seconds after the boosters separated. So the LES should have been available at the time of failure. The booster did seem to be turning sideways, so I guess it's possible that aerodynamic forces destroyed the LES before it could be activated. (It also possible that it was used and a translator mistranslated LES activated as LES jettisoned). If aerodynamic loads did destroy the LES before it could be used, then that sound like a design issue, and I think it's unlikely they could fix that and certify a new design in the next 3 months. NSF is saying that was an old version of the profile, in this version the LES is jettisoned about 3 seconds before separation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @AVaughan A tweet somewhere said that thrusters on the shroud were used to separate the descent module, the tower itself had been jettisoned. IIRC Soyuz has these smaller abort motors on the shroud too. @Ultimate Steve per the news briefing on now, abort was at about 50... actually I’m not sure if that’s miles or kilometers, anyway, they did coast into space. Good photo of the “oops.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 From ISS: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Ho Lam Kerman said: Can you provide sources? I'd like to verify. Very, yes they would suspend all Soyuz launches until they figure out that is the problem. This is standard, as they don't know that is the problem but its little chance its the Soyuz who caused it I say its simply click bait on Soyuz grounded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Ben Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Where do I start with how many errors are in that picture? (Like when does a ballistic trajectory got straight at a 30 degree angle! XD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) I've googled out the Soyuz-TMA LES description. So, all internet sources unanimously allege that LES tower gets jettisoned at T+160 (some of them that T+140), just several seconds before the shroud. That makes sense. But as I can understand this is how it worked in classic Soyuzes. At least since Soyuz-TMA the LES tower gets jettisoned at T+115, right before the 1st stage (exactly what we see in the video). Since T+115 till T+158 (when the shroud gets jettisoned, almost like in old Soyuzes, too), the launch abort is performed by the shroud engines. The towerless shroud of TMA (and later) has 2x2 engines which normally throw away the shroud halves. But in case of the launch abort the engines ignite two by two with 0.3 s delay and take away the head block of the rocket, including both shroud and two upper sections of the spaceship. Then the shroud splits, and the capsule happily slides out. Upd. Those 2x2 shroud engines are four short tilted radial pipes at the top of the shroud, right beneath the joint of cylinder and cone. Edited October 11, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 2nd stage was hit by the 1st stage and depressurized. https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/633006&edit-text= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insert_name Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Did anyone else see a bunch of objects at booster separation, it didn't look like a normal korolev's cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalitor Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 DId american astronaut Nick Hague a record? First american to survive aborted launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchz95 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: 2nd stage was hit by the 1st stage and depressurized. https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/633006&edit-text= Someone pressed the spacebar a bit too early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, insert_name said: Did anyone else see a bunch of objects at booster separation, it didn't look like a normal korolev's cross From now on, it shall be known as the Korolev polygon :-) Can only be the rubble from the colliding cores ... 46 minutes ago, Mitchz95 said: Someone pressed the spacebar a bit too early. They are in good company. Happens to me all the time. "Surprise ! One booster's in the wrong group !" I too find it it astounding that the rocket managed the failure without the crew being hurt. Hope they get behind the cause soon. Edited October 11, 2018 by Green Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 NASA is going to study if ISS could stay uncrewed. https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/world/633010&edit-text= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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