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Russian Launch and Mission Thread


tater

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50 minutes ago, Scotius said:

Doubt it. Besides, it would only be shifting problem from Soyuz to ISS. Hydrogen peroxide stored onboard the station would degrade too, complicating astonauts lives even more without any huge gain.

What if we burn all the H2O2 for an orbot boost and refuel the soyuz with something from progress?

Besides, a ballistic reentry is survivable, just not enjoyable.

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28 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

What if we burn all the H2O2 for an orbot boost and refuel the soyuz with something from progress?

Besides, a ballistic reentry is survivable, just not enjoyable.

You and @Ho Lam Kerman are both ignoring the problem that unless the descent module was designed to be refueled in orbit, then it is probably not possible to refuel it except on the ground, even if the ISS had H2O2 available.  The necessary valves and fittings are probably on the outside of the capsule, and not designed to be accessed during flight.

Regarding the ballistic descent being survivable, I think it will only be survivable if the descent module renters heat shield first.  Without KSP's magical reaction wheels that requires the descent module's reaction control system.  Which is fueled by the hydrogen peroxide.

 

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The govt commission starts checking the rocket manufacturer.

(As always, "emergency" = "failed").

https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/633349&edit-text=

(Oops, multininja'd)

4 hours ago, Teilnehmer said:

Isn’t it possible to refuel the H₂O₂ tanks of the Soyuz in orbit?

Unlikely, as at least in the classic Soyuzes the peroxide was stored in a barrel inside the capsule behind the spacemens heads.

But they probably would know the actual amount of peroxide at the moment. (At least there should be a manometer to check if it's enough the detonating gas inside)
So, I guess that the actual state of things will prevail over the guarantee.

Also the capsule can be stabilized by air drag, the RCS is required to keep the descent comfortable, at 4 g instead of 8.

3 hours ago, Ho Lam Kerman said:

Can't we manufacture any H2O2 on the station?

Yes, if bring a H2O2 plant there.

(oops, wrong media about Soyuz, disregard that pic)

Edited by kerbiloid
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13 hours ago, AVaughan said:

@Ho Lam Kerman

Regarding the ballistic descent being survivable, I think it will only be survivable if the descent module renters heat shield first.  Without KSP's magical reaction wheels that requires the descent module's reaction control system.  Which is fueled by the hydrogen peroxide.

 

The capsules are self righting so they will descend with the heat shield pointing in the right direction. The loss of RCS means they just won't be able to fly the ship to get steering and lift.

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4 hours ago, Reactordrone said:

The capsules are self righting so they will descend with the heat shield pointing in the right direction. The loss of RCS means they just won't be able to fly the ship to get steering and lift.

So an extended stay is possible, just not fun.

No H2O2 needed.

What about other consumables?

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5 hours ago, Reactordrone said:

The capsules are self righting so they will descend with the heat shield pointing in the right direction.

If they were already pointed in the right direction. If you reenter parachute-end first it'll still be a disaster.

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15 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

No, that's the service module's fuel, which I'm not sure of, but is probably some form of Hydrazine.

Ah.  I'm not up on Soyuz technology.  I figured the same (or at least the same type) thrusters would be used for attitude control prior to and during re-entry.

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1 hour ago, YNM said:

If they were already pointed in the right direction. If you reenter parachute-end first it'll still be a disaster.

Parachute's on the side, though, right? Damn, of all the times to have skipped taking a picture of that Soyuz DM at the Museum of Flight...

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54 minutes ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Parachute's on the side, though, right?

A little bit, not much more than other space capsules.

But yeah, it's only if you were pointed correctly you'll be able to let it guide itself. Otherwise, I think no one likes the crew to return already blendered.

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27 minutes ago, YNM said:

A little bit, not much more than other space capsules.

But yeah, it's only if you were pointed correctly you'll be able to let it guide itself. Otherwise, I think no one likes the crew to return already blendered.

The capsule is designed to be aerodynamically stable on reentry, even if it’s pointing the wrong way at first, it will swing around heat-shield first without any control at all. IIRC one or two of the early flights ended up tumbling until this straightened them out. Remember, that heat doesn’t kick on like a switch, and if you’ve used any of the new spherical capsules in KSP, you know they always tumble at first. :wink:

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6 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

The capsule is designed to be aerodynamically stable on reentry, even if it’s pointing the wrong way at first, it will swing around heat-shield first without any control at all. IIRC one or two of the early flights ended up tumbling until this straightened them out.

Did they have people in them at the time ? Were they unscathed or not ? What would NASA goes to say to RKA ?

We're not taking balls here. You may well be with the methods of rescue etc. but I'd say that the least balls option is to leave the station for a short period of time, if they can't make MS-11 successfuly or in-time.

5 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Soyuz 2.1b

Didn't it had more problems, or has it been fixed ? The problematic Progress spacecrafts were launched by them right ?

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Just now, Xd the great said:

Salyut 7 rescue mission was one hell of a move. Time for an ISS rescue mission.

It will require a lot of rags to gather the water. ISS is much bigger.

Also there would be a perforator in addition to the sledgehammer from the movie never used irl.

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3 hours ago, YNM said:

Did they have people in them at the time ? Were they unscathed or not ? What would NASA goes to say to RKA ?

It was the first couple of Vostoks, apparently, but similar concept.

3 hours ago, YNM said:

We're not taking balls here. You may well be with the methods of rescue etc. but I'd say that the least balls option is to leave the station for a short period of time, if they can't make MS-11 successfuly or in-time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying such a thing should intentionally be done, but it is designed to do so. There have been some... amusing ideas kicked around here, but during all this the Station has never been close to an emergency situation that would require anything so extreme.

1 hour ago, tater said:

 

At least they didn't have to switch off the recorders cuz they were cussing too much. :D

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Btw thanks to this flight SU/RU has surpassed US in suborbital flights in 2 nominations.

Now
1) both have 2 suborbital flights: 2 Mercuries vs 2 Soyuzes 
2) both have 3 suborbital people: 2 in Mercuries + 1 in Soyuz vs 2+1 in Soyuzes

but
1) SU/RU launched twice more people into suborbit (1+1 vs 2+2)
2) SU/RU did it with 2-seat ships

Edited by kerbiloid
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