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Russian Launch and Mission Thread


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1 hour ago, Codraroll said:

Russia's future ability to construct and operate a space station. 

Rogozin: we need a space station

Government: sorry no money

Rogozin: we need a MILITARY space station

Government: here’s everything you’ll ever need!

It’s a clever tactic by Rogozin in a situation when commercial revenues of Roscosmos are near zero.

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48 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

It’s a clever tactic by Rogozin in a situation when commercial revenues of Roscosmos are near zero.

Chinese space officials: "'Near'?"

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33 minutes ago, DDE said:

Chinese space officials: "'Near'?"

CNSA: We still got bunch of big bosses who earn lots of money but don't know how to waste it. Let's take the lead and start some commercial space company and let them throw them damn money in to the sea.

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54 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

I bought a hoodie with Buran from Glavkosmos online store, so their commercial revenues are definitely not zero

Actually you can also buy the mission badges on CNSA's official online store on Taobao. But...well...you know, it really takes time to transport it from China to your home if you are not live in China. And there's no English translate at all

Edited by steve9728
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5 hours ago, sh1pman said:

Rogozin: we need a space station

Government: sorry no money

Rogozin: we need a MILITARY space station

Government: here’s everything you’ll ever need!

It’s a clever tactic by Rogozin in a situation when commercial revenues of Roscosmos are near zero.

Yes, but will it work at a time when the government itself is out of cash to give, the entire military is screaming for their share of what scant funds are left, and foreign components can't be sourced anymore? Unless the exchange above ends with the government handing Rogozin more than a shoe string, the space station won't get any closer to reality. They will probably reveal some grandiose plans and pretty drawings, but it doesn't help if there isn't any money to actually make a flight.

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2 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

Yes, but will it work at a time when the government itself is out of cash to give

The government will now likely start spending hundreds of billions of $ from central bank reserves and national wealth fund that were accumulated over the years. Until it’s out of cash, it’s worth fighting for a chunk of that cash.

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51 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

The government will now likely start spending hundreds of billions of $ from central bank reserves and national wealth fund that were accumulated over the years. Until it’s out of cash, it’s worth fighting for a chunk of that cash.

But you can't get a space station built in three months, though ...

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looks like the swedes are no longer launching their atmospheric science microsatellite on soyuz, I would expect that countries seeking alternate launch arrangements for smaller spacecraft are going to have a much easier time than the larger ones,  given how many people seem to be launching these on various launchers

Google translate:

Sweden refuses to launch MATS satellite on Russian Soyuz-2.1b rocket. The launch of MATS was planned at the end of 2022 from the Vostochny cosmodrome along with a Russian meteorological satellite. A woman with a cart is easier for a mare (rocket)

Any idea what that last sentence is supposed to mean?

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12 minutes ago, insert_name said:

A woman with a cart is easier for a mare (rocket)

Any idea what that last sentence is supposed to mean?

"Good riddance to bad rubbish"

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2 hours ago, insert_name said:

A woman with a cart is easier for a mare (rocket)

Any idea what that last sentence is supposed to mean?

A bad autotranslation of "с" as "with" instead of "from".

"Баба с возу - кобыле легче".

"The woman countrish, colloquial, presumably bulky gets from the cart - the cart gets lighter for the horse literally - mare, for rhythmic purposes, and as a counterpart to "woman" to pull."

Edited by kerbiloid
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34 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

ESA officially suspended #ExoMars rover mission

"acknowledged the present impossibility of carrying out the ongoing cooperation with Roscosmos".

https://www.esa.int/Newsroom/Press_Releases/ExoMars_suspended

If Rogozin is going to make a joke about handing the Kazachok lander platform over to the VDV, he's going to have to steal that joke from me.

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On 3/15/2022 at 3:43 PM, Codraroll said:

Yes, but will it work at a time when the government itself is out of cash to give, the entire military is screaming for their share of what scant funds are left, and foreign components can't be sourced anymore? Unless the exchange above ends with the government handing Rogozin more than a shoe string, the space station won't get any closer to reality. They will probably reveal some grandiose plans and pretty drawings, but it doesn't help if there isn't any money to actually make a flight.

It will be interesting to see what happens. It should be noted that the USSR built Mir and Buran and Energia and a whole bunch of new ICBMs simultaneously while being under pretty bad economic conditions.

Delays are a foregone conclusion, but I think to say never is a bit premature.

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I'm pretty sure that, unless something much worse happens, everyone will be glad to rollback the economical pressure as soon as possible, at least because ICBM are a tech level of 1970s, and there are ~6 000 (or so) nukes in whose wide proliferation no one is interested.

As Angara and so on are actually the Energy's ancestry in sense of propulsion, just the manufacturers' race will be cut, and they will finally make a choice, whose rocket is thicker to be the only one to produce.

As any lunar and ROSS plans  are anyway not relevant till 2030 (same as LOP-G and etc), this will not necessary mean even a delay.

(Avoiding a deeper explanation with examples of exact countries and their "unity").

But obviously, in the current situation it's hard to make some estimation of exact plans.

P.S.
Orion costs a billion of dollars, but it actually doesn't. The bureaucracy and safety measures do. The ship itself is much cheaper.
The same about every modern spacecraft and station module. 

Edited by kerbiloid
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15 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

It will be interesting to see what happens. It should be noted that the USSR built Mir and Buran and Energia and a whole bunch of new ICBMs simultaneously while being under pretty bad economic conditions.

Delays are a foregone conclusion, but I think to say never is a bit premature.

You could also turn that argument on its head, however, by noting that post-USSR Russia never came anywhere close to developing a space station or a reusable spacecraft or a heavy-lift rocket even when the economy was doing reasonably well. A lot of money went into ICBMs, though, but one can question whether it all got to be used for its intended purpose. 

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3 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

that post-USSR Russia never came anywhere close to developing a space station or a reusable spacecraft

It was not needed even in USSR. Buran was a Shuttle mirrorring.

A heavy rocket  - Angara is made of URM standard modules. It can reach the SLS normal payload.

6 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

A lot of money went into ICBMs, though, but one can question whether it all got to be used for its intended purpose. 

Not necessary to use them, but it's possible to sell. The non-proliferation is a two-sided coin. Nobody wants this.

P.S.
Also Proton is a tech level of 1960s, it doesn't require complicated launchpad, and its production can be restarted, as it just stopped.

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3 hours ago, Codraroll said:

You could also turn that argument on its head, however, by noting that post-USSR Russia never came anywhere close to developing a space station or a reusable spacecraft or a heavy-lift rocket even when the economy was doing reasonably well. A lot of money went into ICBMs, though, but one can question whether it all got to be used for its intended purpose. 

Yes but the 1990s is not the 2020s in terms of the security environment.

This is where “military space station” becomes an attractive selling point.

This is a very similar parallel to how Vostok only got approved by the military because it was supposed to eventually become a crewed reconnaissance satellite of sorts.

This never happened because Khrushchev finally got hooked on space spectacular mania and pushed for more pure propaganda flights. Shortly before being deposed he started up the lunar program, which the next leadership just stuck with. By then, space was a huge matter of PR prestige so the government and military had to stick with it. But even then adding in military utility was a huge bonus when trying to get something approved.

It will be really interesting to see how 4K footage of astronauts on the Moon and Starship in flight will affect the decisions of other space programs around the world. It’s easy to talk about returning to the Moon, but I imagine it will have quite the emotional effect on even the most troubled of people.

But back on the topic of Roscosmos, the unfortunate side of such persuasive tactics is it has its limitations. So even if ROSS flies with military modules, Yenisei, the LVPK, and Orel have a very hard road ahead of them :(

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