How to Fly Shuttle

[Mukita12]

so i'm a Noob Here (yes i only play the game for a couple month) And i need to know how to fly a Space shuttle  can you pls help?

[Human Person]

First like a rocket, then like a plane.

[Spricigo]

5 hours ago, Physics Student said:

First like a rocket, then like a plane.

The only difference is that it don't handle like a regular rocke/plane. But that is no small detail.

A well designed shuttle will be close enough but some compromises are necessary. 

 

[AeroGav]

I recommend you don't try if you're new to the game.     They are harder than spaceplanes and rockets.   They combine the worst handling characteristics of both.        

If you still want to do one, forget about making it look like the real Space Shuttle.       Instead, build something where the boosters are arranged symmetrically around the airplane.

Like I say, if you want to go to space in something that has wings , build a space plane.       If you can't do an SSTO spaceplane,  in my opinion it is easier to have jet engine "boosters" (hang them from the wings, drop them when the air is too thin)  than rocket "boosters" like a space shuttle.  

Jet boosters are lighter, their fuel lasts ages, and produce steady power up to their max height/speed.         

Rockets boosters are insanely heavy which messes up the plane's handling.           In Kerbal Space Program, they also cost more than a disposable jet engine capable of boosting the plane to the same speed and height.  ( eg. Whiplash)

[Spricigo]

With alll due respect, I will disagree with part of what @AeroGav said. 

3 hours ago, AeroGav said:

I recommend you don't try if you're new to the game

Just get a good design from Kerbalx and you are good  to  go. Alternatively try to design one yourself and be prepared to ask "what I did wrong?" Chances are that you will do several things wrong but that is how  one get experience. 

3 hours ago, AeroGav said:

They are harder than spaceplanes and rockets

Arguably as difficult as SSTO spaceplanes. Point  is that they are different thus a different approach is required.

 

3 hours ago, AeroGav said:

Like I say, if you want to go to space in something that has wings , build a space plane.

I'd say to consider why you are doing it. Wings have no use whatsoever in space, if you don't use to have an advantage while going to or coming from space it is just dead weight. (Of course "looking cool" and "challenge" are good enough reasons)

3 hours ago, AeroGav said:

Rockets boosters are insanely heavy which messes up the plane's handling.           In Kerbal Space Program, they also cost more than a disposable jet engine capable of boosting the plane to the same speed and height

The real problem is not the weight or cost of rockets. (Granted fuel consumption, its weight and cost is a concern). But if you're using rockets, fly like a rocket,  there is no reason to stay at the lower  altitude required by jets or 'keep your time' to allow the engines reach the peak performance.

[Snark]

Also, the design really matters.  KSP hands you some very convenient space-shuttle-lookalike parts (the Mk3 components, the BigS delta and tail fin, the Vector engines) which makes it very simple to quickly slap together a vehicle that looks just like the space shuttle.  Except that if you use those parts in the most obvious-seeming way, there's an excellent chance you'll end up building a thing whose CoM is way in the back, which means as soon as it's empty of fuel, it will be completely aerodynamically unstable and will be virtually unflyable on reentry.  So attention to ship design is important, too.

Basically, it boils down to this:  There are a lot of different ways you could have trouble flying a shuttle.  Some of those could be design problems, others could be piloting problems.  We can't really give good advice unless we know just what problem you're having.  So... could you describe that for us?  When you try to fly a shuttle, what is going wrong?   For example "It keeps flipping when it's climbing to space", or "I run out of fuel before I can get to orbit", or "it keeps flipping around when I'm reentering", or "I keep crashing and exploding when I try to land", or some other thing.

A screenshot of the problem would also be helpful.

[AeroGav]

On 14/09/2017 at 8:56 PM, Spricigo said:

Just get a good design from Kerbalx and you are good  to  go. Alternatively try to design one yourself and be prepared to ask "what I did wrong?" Chances are that you will do several things wrong but that is how  one get experience. 

Someone just put this up - looks promising

I would personally have used Big S wings and strakes, but it looks like it'd do a  job for the OP.   Stalling speed of 50 m/s on Duna apparently, but it also has VTOL engines so it can do hover landings.

https://kerbalx.com/RuBisCO/Quetzal-II

[Mukita12]

That make Sense 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Mukita12

[AeroGav]

On a smaller scale ,  I built something with similar capabilities - 

 

https://kerbalx.com/AeroGav/Starswift-Nano-Shuttle

It's not as easy to fly as my SSTOs,  which require little skill (just that you know the flight profile).     The problem is,  I feel that it's pointless putting wings on a space vessel if you're not going to use them on the way up,   so I like to make use of them by having a low TWR, high ISP sustainer on the orbiter which requires lift to get you up there.   But, that means a rather violent transition from the SRBs, which are getting up to 3 or 4G acceleration on burnout, to 0.3G on a nerv.   Also i usually put an angle of incidence on my wings so it flies more efficiently as an upper stage, but this means the wings can't be stopped from making lift when the boosters are on, so it tries to loop if you go too fast low down .  With SRBs,  it's tricky having enough thrust to get off the pad but not so much that you loop.  

This one has gets around that with liquid boosters.  It has a pair of fleas to help get it going towards the blue stuff then drops the fleas and half of it's reliant engines after 30 sec, leaving it with a TWR of 0.6 - manageable !    If you can get it that far without crashing, you're pretty much set to stay on prograde and just stage your way to space.

For comparison,  I made a disposable jet engine version of my NASA shuttle replica, used it on the Hubble Space Telescope mission

  It was really easy to fly because the TWR was pretty much the same all the way up - Whiplash --> Terriers -> NERVs

You can tell this because all through the video i'm clicking on stuff, panning the camera, taking screenshots,  not actually flying the thing - i just set prograde after gear up and  waited for it to grind upwards.    Admittedly, vertical launch is faster (if you don't hit revert too many times..)

The parts I threw away were cheaper than the boosters and external tank i would have needed on a vertical launch, by quite some way, too.

[Mukita12]

2 hours ago, Snark said:

Also, the design really matters.  KSP hands you some very convenient space-shuttle-lookalike parts (the Mk3 components, the BigS delta and tail fin, the Vector engines) which makes it very simple to quickly slap together a vehicle that looks just like the space shuttle.  Except that if you use those parts in the most obvious-seeming way, there's an excellent chance you'll end up building a thing whose CoM is way in the back, which means as soon as it's empty of fuel, it will be completely aerodynamically unstable and will be virtually unflyable on reentry.  So attention to ship design is important, too.

Basically, it boils down to this:  There are a lot of different ways you could have trouble flying a shuttle.  Some of those could be design problems, others could be piloting problems.  We can't really give good advice unless we know just what problem you're having.  So... could you describe that for us?  When you try to fly a shuttle, what is going wrong?   For example "It keeps flipping when it's climbing to space", or "I run out of fuel before I can get to orbit", or "it keeps flipping around when I'm reentering", or "I keep crashing and exploding when I try to land", or some other thing.

A screenshot of the problem would also be helpful.

I just can't Pilot It Because i have CA Mod with the Craft file so i just need how to fly it

[archnem]

The three things that helped me with shuttles immensely:

1) Download the CorrectCOL mod.  The stock COL marker does not take body lift into account and my shuttles were flipping and going crazy on re-entry

2) Strap a couple of jets to your shuttle.  If you short the landing or need to come back around, they help alot vs. having to glide it in.

3) Place a flag west of the runway at the bottom of the hill for the runway.  I name mine KSC ILS-W.  Target this flag on re-entry and use as a primitive ILS system to line up your prograde marker.  Also be sure to use "Surface" instead of "Orbit/Target" on the navball.

[Spricigo]

3 hours ago, AeroGav said:

The problem is,  I feel that it's pointless putting wings on a space vessel if you're not going to use them on the way up,   so I like to make use of them by having a low TWR, high ISP sustainer on the orbiter which requires lift to get you up there.

Certainly sub-optimal to carry it and not put to good use.

My usual approach is aim for barely enough wing for a semicontroled glide in the way down. The handling characteristics are not to be proud but get the the job done without serious problems. 

[ForScience6686]

It flies you on the way up, it flies like a winged brick on the way down.  The off center thrust on lift off can cause some corrections to over compensate.  But you can also use it to your advantage by simply rolling.  The way down is generally not powered, so understanding drag and lift are necessary if you want to make it to the runway.

Best advice is to stick with rockets and try shuttles when you're ready for a challenge.  Start small and work your way up, there's a lot to learn with shuttles.

[Mukita12]

2 hours ago, ForScience6686 said:

It flies you on the way up, it flies like a winged brick on the way down.  The off center thrust on lift off can cause some corrections to over compensate.  But you can also use it to your advantage by simply rolling.  The way down is generally not powered, so understanding drag and lift are necessary if you want to make it to the runway.

Best advice is to stick with rockets and try shuttles when you're ready for a challenge.  Start small and work your way up, there's a lot to learn with shuttles.

Okay thx for the tips