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[KSP 1.5.*] Outer Planets Mod[2.2.1] [25 April 2018]


Galileo

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Just a question, does Transfer Window Planner works with OPM or other planet packs? Until now I hesitated to take it or Astrogator (not updated to 1.4) And so I don't know what the tranfer windows are for the OPM planets. (even in my 1.3.1 save I never dared to send a probe to one of them ecause of that )

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38 minutes ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

Just a question, does Transfer Window Planner works with OPM or other planet packs? Until now I hesitated to take it or Astrogator (not updated to 1.4) And so I don't know what the tranfer windows are for the OPM planets. (even in my 1.3.1 save I never dared to send a probe to one of them ecause of that )

Afraid I haven't dug into post-1.4, but it works for 1.3.1 and I can't imagine why it wouldn't. I've got probes heading the each of the outer planets already.

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41 minutes ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

Just a question, does Transfer Window Planner works with OPM or other planet packs?

Yes.  Transfer Window Planner uses the orbital elements in the planet's cfg file to compute the transfers.  So it doesn't matter if the planets are stock or from a planet pack.  TWP is going to do its thing the same either way. 

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I'm a bit confused with the new release of OPM on Github. First, the version jumped from 1.2.6 to 2.2.0. Second, with the changes (Tracking Station Tier 4 and new science definitions), is it going to break things? Any possible conflicts, e.g. with KCT?

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This branch of Outer Planets Mod is becoming the official release branch of OPM, and as such, the version of this recent release is continuing on from where CaptRobau left off with OPM 2.1.0, hence the large jump in versioning.

This thread will update to reflect this in due course.

The way OPM previously handled antenna/DSN changes was pretty aggressive in forcing changes onto the player. It changed power values not only for the Lvl3 DSN but also mutliplied all antenna power values by a large factor. This was probably not the best implementation of the desired effect as the vanilla KSP game has both an antenna and DSN power slider in the difficultly settings if the user ever wanted to increase or decrease the amount of power in these areas. Instead, what we have implemented now, is to revert these patches to stop OPM affecting the DSN level 3 power output and to stop it affecting any antennas, stock or modded, and instead introduced a Level 4 DSN unlock that gives the same power output as the old OPM level 3 did. With this DSN level 4 and a Comment 88-88/Ra-100, you only just be able to reach Plock when it comes down around its Periapsis so it's quite well balanced in that regard; however, please be aware that the mod Custom Barn Kit is required for this to take effect and it is currently not listed on CKAN as 1.4.2 compatible.

With regards to KCT compatibility, I have no idea, I've never used KCT so I don't know what it does, how it affects other parts of the game etc. If it doesn't work, you may want to poke the Dev about it (only if justifiable) to include exitensiblilty in KCT to recognize increased facility levels.

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2 hours ago, Poodmund said:

With regards to KCT compatibility, I have no idea, I've never used KCT so I don't know what it does, how it affects other parts of the game etc. If it doesn't work, you may want to poke the Dev about it (only if justifiable) to include exitensiblilty in KCT to recognize increased facility levels.

It intercepts upgrades to facilities to make them take time to accomplish, rather than being instantaneous. I can see that there could be compatibility issues. Perhaps @magico13 could weigh in here?

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@Poodmund, @UnanimousCoward, @garwel

I did a quick test of the new OPM update with KCT on a clean install and everything worked fine.  KCT respects the Custom Barn Kit configurations that ship with OPM for the Level 4 tracking station.  Details below if you are curious about more specific results.

Spoiler

Installation Setup:

  • KSP 1.4.2+Making History (Linux Mint 17.3)
  • CustomBarnKit 1.1.17.0
  • Kopernicus 1.4.2-1
  • OPM 2.2.0
  • Kerbal Construction Time 1.4.0.69
  • Module Manager 3.0.6

Game Setup:

  • Career Mode - all normal defauls
  • KCT - default preset, no upgrade points applied

Method:

  • Use F-12 menu to add funds
  • Upgrade Tracking Station (record cost and KCT time to complete)
  • Time Warp
  • Repeat

Results:

Tracking Station Level Cost Days Hours Minutes
1 -> 2 $150,000 89 03 54
2 -> 3 $563,000 173 04 07
3 -> 4 $ 2,185,000 342 01 01

(The lengthy times are most likely due to the fact that I did not apply any KCT upgrades).

Thanks @Poodmund, @Galileo, and @magico13 for all your work on a great set of mods!

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3 hours ago, R-TEAM said:

It is still an advantage to install your Visual Overhaul ?

(as in the changelog it menton various gfx incrase ..)

 

Regards

Maybe not as this time... I haven't spent the time to ensure that's its compatible with the dependencies for KSP 1.4.2. I will try to do this soon though.

In the mean time, I believe SVE added in visual support for the OPM bodies that take effect if OPM-VO is not installed; so you may want to try that.

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hello all, and sorry for what kinda seems like a dumb question.

But I installed this mod and zoomed all the way out to see if I could see the new planets, but I can not. So thats leads me to wonder, 1)How do I know if the mod is installed correctly, 2) Will I be able to see anything from OPM before i do research or in sandbox mod.

thansk,

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Hi @Galileo,

Do you have any information about how I can best add a compatibility patch to my mod that disables OPM's tinkering with the tracking station?

Reason I'm asking is that I've got problems with making JX2Antenna compatible with OPM again:

...This mod has always been compatible with OPM (very deliberately so, since OPM was one of the main reasons I wanted to make JX2Antenna in the first place!)  When CommNet came along, OPM had this issue that stock antennas wouldn't reach far enough for the expanded solar system.  With JX2Antenna installed, that's not a problem anymore.  Therefore, that mod's goal is don't have mods tinker with the tracking station if JX2Antenna is installed.  Therefore, it needs a compatibility patch for any mod such as OPM that does such tinkering.

OPM used to deal with the "distances too big, antennas won't reach" problem by simply boosting antenna powers and tracking station powers.  So that was easy for me to deal with by just undoing the x4 antenna boost, then looking up the default power for the tracking station and reverting the power back to what it used to be.

However... OPM recently significantly rearranged what it does with the tracking station, and now I'm not sure how to untangle it.

The current OPM has config like this:

@CUSTOMBARNKIT:NEEDS[!GPP]
{	
	@TRACKING
	{
        @levels = 4
        @upgradesVisual = 1, 2, 3, 3
        @upgrades = 38000, 150000, 563000, 2185000
        @patchesAheadLimit = 0, 2, 3, 4
        @trackedObjectLimit = 0, 8, -1, -1
        @DSNRange = 2000000000, 50000000000, 250000000000, 2000000000000
	}
}

...it changes lots of different numbers.  My goal is to make it so that it just does a "don't do any changes to the tracking station at all, use default values".

My initial attempt worked great for me with all the mods I run... but it causes problems for users running certain other mods.  I just did this:

@CUSTOMBARNKIT:AFTER[OPM]:NEEDS[!GPP]
{
	-TRACKING {}
}

...which works just fine in the stock game with just JX2Antenna, and works fine with JX2Antenna plus OPM plus a fair number of other mods that I'm running, which is why I didn't see anything amiss.  Unfortunately... there are a fair number of other mods (basically, anything that uses CustomBarnKit) that start spamming NREs and completely kill CommNet if this patch is in place.  So clearly this is not okay for me to do.

Unfortunately, I don't know what to do about this.  I'd like to just make my own MM patch to the TRACKING node (perhaps with a FINAL qualifier) that just nails all the numbers in place to what the stock game is... but I don't know what all those numbers are.  I can kinda-sorta guess what the various things mean here-- set levels to 3, set upgradesVisual to 1,2,3, set upgrades to (I'm guessing) cash values taken from the stock game, set DSNRange to values taken from the stock game.  But I don't know what to do with patchesAheadLimit and trackedObjectLimit, since I don't know what those numbers are for the stock game.

Do you happen to know what these were set to before OPM overrides the stock values?

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

 

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@Snark, the recent changes to OPM were to pretty much remove the CommNet and Science multiplier patches that OPM used to include to avoid these issue such as you previously experienced with OPM. With OPM 2.2.0, it currently does not modify any antenna power outputs and it no longer alters the DSN Level 3 power output... all the values of the antennas and DSN Levels 1-3 are purely the stock values, however, what OPM now does is add a Level 4 to the Tracking Station so that toward the end of player's careers, at the cost of a lot of money they can boost the DSN power output to the same value as OPM used to change the Level 3 DSN to.

SO, to simplify the above statement, unless you upgrade the Level 3 Tracking Station to Level 4, your antenna mod will work just as if it was operating on vanilla KSP.

Does this help at all? I personally pushed for these changes in OPM and wrote the patch for CBK for this release so if you have any further points you'd wish to discuss feel free to tag me. :D 

Edited by Poodmund
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4 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

With OPM 2.2.0, it currently does not modify any antenna power outputs and it no longer alters the DSN Level 3 power output... all the values of the antennas and DSN Levels 1-3 are purely the stock values, however, what OPM now does is add a Level 4 to the Tracking Station so that toward the end of player's careers, at the cost of a lot of money they can boost the DSN power output to the same value as OPM used to change the Level 3 DSN to.

Thank you!  I can see that the DSNRange has the standard stock values for the first three levels (2G, 50G, 250G).

I can also see :funds:150K and :funds: 563K listed as a couple of the upgrade costs, so I presume those are the upgrades from 1->2 and 2->3.  So presumably the :funds:2.185M is for upgrading to level 4?

So basically I just have to change the number of levels from 4 down to 3, and strip off the 4th entry for the multi-value entries, and that ought to do it.

Just out of curiosity... what's with the :funds: 38K entry at the start of the list of upgrade costs?  "Cost to upgrade to level 1"?  Surely that's not a thing, is it?  Where does that number come from?

 

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16 minutes ago, Snark said:

Thank you!  I can see that the DSNRange has the standard stock values for the first three levels (2G, 50G, 250G).

I can also see :funds:150K and :funds: 563K listed as a couple of the upgrade costs, so I presume those are the upgrades from 1->2 and 2->3.  So presumably the :funds:2.185M is for upgrading to level 4?

So basically I just have to change the number of levels from 4 down to 3, and strip off the 4th entry for the multi-value entries, and that ought to do it.

Just out of curiosity... what's with the :funds: 38K entry at the start of the list of upgrade costs?  "Cost to upgrade to level 1"?  Surely that's not a thing, is it?  Where does that number come from?

Correct, the 'upgrades' are the cost; I derived the 4th level cost from the first 3 costs, and the 'DSNRange' is the output power... but seeing as your antenna is supposed to be a be-all-and-end-all antenna, I am not sure as to why you'd want to remove this new CBK patch from OPM installs. Seeing as the new method that OPM has doesn't change the stock values, all it does it makes the range more extensible which is exactly what the J2X mod does almost as if they are achieving the same thing. Installed and working together at OPM's Level 4 DSN power, they'll just provide an all encompassing solution to comms networks.

Here you can see the differences in how far out the different combinations of the end games DSN-Antennas can reach (Imgur embedding of Albums is still broken *sigh*):

Spoiler

UKhrjWD.png

6fY9f7W.png

plJW3W9.png

b7uElGy.png

You can play around with this and see any values for yourself here: https://goo.gl/Wn03VL

Edited by Poodmund
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16 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

I am not sure as to why you'd want to remove this new CBK patch from OPM installs.

Redundancy, mainly.  Let's say someone had OPM installed, let's consider the various combinations of comm setup:

  • Stock DSN, no JX2Antenna:  doesn't work, comms don't reach outer planets, nearly unplayable, so obviously this is out.
  • Add level 4 DSN, no JX2Antenna:  Works fine.  Can reach outer planets.  Don't need JX2Antenna.
  • Stock DSN, with JX2Antenna:  Works fine.  Can reach outer planets.  Don't need JX2Antenna.
  • Add level 4 DSN, with JX2Antenna:  Massive overkill.  Antenna range goes far beyond outer planets.  Don't really need JX2Antenna at all because an RA-100 can talk directly to Kerbin with no JX2 antenna in the chain.

Basically... there's simply no point in even having JX2Antenna if the comm network is upgraded to such power.  With the level-4 boost to DSN, the player doesn't need JX2Antenna.  And if they've got JX2Antenna, they don't need the DSN boost.

So it's basically a play-balance thing.  It's a choice beween "need lots of money to upgrade DSN to talk to outer planets" and "need lots of science to unlock powerful antenna to talk to outer planets".  OPM is perfectly playable without JX2Antenna, because it picks the former option.  JX2Antenna is a mod for folks who would like to try the latter.

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One thing that the level 4 Tracking Station + JX2Antenna can do that no other single option can provide, it can reach Grannus (the red dwarf star in GEP).  Although it's not possible with the current version of GEP, a planned update will allow GEP to be added to the stock solar system.  So if a player uses Stock + OPM + GEP, they'll have a means to maintain communication with vessels traveling all the way to Grannus (when near perigee).  That certainly gives the level 4 TS and JX2 a purpose to coexist together.  I'm all in favor of that.
 

Edited by OhioBob
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13 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

Although it's not possible with the current version of GEP, a planned update will allow GEP to be added to the stock solar system.  So if a player uses Stock + OPM + GEP, they'll have a means to maintain communication with vessels travelling all the way to Grannus (when near perigee). 

Wow.  That would be incredible.

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  • I do not know if it is something I've done but I get this message: Kopernicus was not able to load the custom planetary system due to an exception in the loading process. Loading your saved game is NOT recommended.  I'm giving the last load logs and mods if you need anything else please let me know THANKS For doing a great job on this. I know this has to be something I'm doing on my end Just can not figure it out.

[Link to full GameData upload removed by moderator due to copyright]

Edited by Snark
Copyright-violating link removed
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6 hours ago, flekota said:
  • I do not know if it is something I've done but I get this message: Kopernicus was not able to load the custom planetary system due to an exception in the loading process. Loading your saved game is NOT recommended.  I'm giving the last load logs and mods if you need anything else please let me know THANKS For doing a great job on this. I know this has to be something I'm doing on my end Just can not figure it out.

I see one problem, OPM_FinalFrontier is installed incorrectly.  Drill down further into the folder and you'll see another folder titled Nereid.  It is the Nereid folder that should go in GameData.

 

Edited by OhioBob
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1 hour ago, flekota said:
  • I do not know if it is something I've done but I get this message: Kopernicus was not able to load the custom planetary system due to an exception in the loading process. Loading your saved game is NOT recommended.  I'm giving the last load logs and mods if you need anything else please let me know THANKS For doing a great job on this. I know this has to be something I'm doing on my end Just can not figure it out.

You have a few mods installed incorrectly. Also, please remove your link. You are not allowed to upload mods the way you did. All I need is a screenshot of your gamedata folder. 

 

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