Stock tech tree: Do you skip parts of the early tech tree by using the KSC science exploit/cheats/game setup settings? If yes, why?

[Yemo]

Looking at career streams/youtube videos, there are a lot of people skipping the early tech tree by using the KSC science exploit.

I m wondering how many do this and what are the reasons to do so?

Edited September 28, 2017 by Yemo

[Landwalker]

I only voted on Question 3, but I'm not sure it "took" since I didn't vote on Q1 or Q2. 

Basically, I don't even use the Stock Tech Tree (so the first two questions don't apply to me), because the sequencing is nonsensical and the reversal of manned/unmanned and lateness of atmospheric aviation are both quite off-putting.

[Yemo]

12 minutes ago, Landwalker said:

I only voted on Question 3, but I'm not sure it "took" since I didn't vote on Q1 or Q2. 

Basically, I don't even use the Stock Tech Tree (so the first two questions don't apply to me), because the sequencing is nonsensical and the reversal of manned/unmanned and lateness of atmospheric aviation are both quite off-putting.

Whoops, yeah, there seems to be an issue with that.

I added a "No answer to this question" for every sub poll.

[invision]

i  never found farming science an issue, and being forced to use some of the crappy parts has led me to build some really great space  craft with minimal parts 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by invision

[JP_Magoo]

All i want is at least a tiny bit of aviation before rockets. It only makes sense. Plus the fact that you can launch rockets before it's even possible to build a useful plane is makes planes useless until you can build a good SSTO! D:

[Foxster]

I'm unsure what you mean by the KSC "exploit". 

It makes sense to be able to do some space science locally (i.e. "in the lab") before venturing forth to space. Actually though there is very little to be gained and you can get a lot more by just getting up to space quickly, which is easy with the the stock tech tree, and messing about with odd little craft around the KSC can be a bit of a red herring, though perhaps fun the first time. 

 There seems little point in looking at altering the stock tech tree though as there are excellent mods available that do just that. 

 

[Superfluous J]

I don't consider KSC science to be an exploit, but I generally don't bother because at stock settings I don't find science very hard to come by.

I do farm it in challenges, when time is important.

[Human Person]

What I consider cheating is using the Mobile processing lab to unlock the late techtree. You can literally use the data from 3 or 4 Minmus landings to unlock everything.

[Streetwind]

It's been a good long while since I last played with the stock tech tree. It's just too small for me. I get that there are players for whom the game really starts after unlocking the tree fully, and Squad needs to strike a balnce between different playstyles. But I personally prefer a continued tech progression throughout my playthrough, so I use mods to make it so.

It's gotten to the point where I write Module Manager patches to tweak celestial body science multipliers to my liking even in already modded solar systems, and change the cost of R&D nodes even on already modded tech trees.

Part of those patches is also setting Kerbin's surface to zero science yield, inspired by how it used to be in BTSM. My rationale is that Kerbals don't need rockets to know about the material composition of the dirt on their doorsteps. As a direct result of this, I don't farm science around KSC, because there is simply none to be had.

(When I did still play stock KSP, I never farmed science around KSC either, simply because it's plain unnecessary for progression. Reaching the Mun in stock KSP is so easy once you unlock just two or three nodes. It feels like a waste of time for me to roll around in an unimmersive, mechanics-abusing contraption picking at inconsequential scraps when I could spend that time raking in big yields in a low space Mun flyby.)

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by Streetwind

[Curveball Anders]

I don't have any issues with the early tech three and stick to launchpad and runway at KSC.

I do focus my early tech spending on getting new instruments and I do launch labs to LKO, Mün and Minmus as soon as I can.

Then I spend much of the early game finishing off contracts and records until I have all the tech I want/need.

[NSEP]

I really don't care about the tech tree, i don't play stock KSP career alot, and when i do, i don't care much about realism but about gameplay.

[Shadowmage]

I generally don't 'farm' the KSC biomes beyond the first vessel launch.  2nd' launch is generally sub-orbital, grabbing 'low space' science.  3rd launch is orbital.  4th normally heads towards the Mun for a flyby, 5th mun-orbit, 6th landing.  At that point it is a tossup between farming Mun, or heading to Minmus to clear it out first (generally Minmus due to the lower dV landing req's, but it all depends on if I have solar panels yet; need solar for Minmus, while you can do Mun on batteries alone).  This is on 100% science;  on games with lower science return, I still don't farm the KSC, but instead will generally use low-tech aero to farm the surrounding biomes (landed/low atmo/high atmo).

With that said, I think the stock tech-tree progression is nonsensical.  Completely backwards in some regards, even if you disregard the history of human spaceflight.  I'm fine with the 'bigger is better' layout (and bigger being unlocked later); but the ordering of the utility bits make no sense -- ladders, solar panels, landing legs, wheels, antennas -- pretty sure any intelligent species would develop at least most of those to some degree before even approaching the concept of spaceflight (even more mind-boggling when you see wheels and ladders on stuff around the KSC as props -- why can't I steal those to put on my rover/lander/whatever?).

[Pthigrivi]

I usually increase my starting science for a new save just cause I've run through it so many times, but for my most recent save I worked my way up from zero and found it pretty rewarding. I do think there could be some adjustments, though. I personally like to unlock everything before my first Duna window but I don't farm KSC mainly because its boring and I've done it already. I do think a game mechanic should 'make sense' but that to me has more to do with its functionality within the gameplay than it does some subjective/imagined relationship between little green cartoon characters and the real-world human history of spaceflight. I think its fine for the game to start manned--it lets new players jump right into things with a little more urgency--but perhaps aviation and probe cores could be moved up in the progression. Ladders and PV panels should also probably move up a level. The most glaring to me though are the structural pieces. You shouldn't have to get to the 550 level to get stack adapters.  Other things like the Experiment storage container and LV-N could probably be pushed back.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Pthigrivi

[KSK]

Haven't played a Career game in ages but I found the tech tree layout very restrictive and badly designed. 

If I wanted to take the easiest path and grind early science at Minmus using a Mk 1 capsule, then the tech tree worked OK. If I wanted to mix things up a bit (including such radical deviations as doing my first Mun/Minmus flights with three Kerbals), then I had to scrimp out the science points to unlock the parts I needed.

So I resorted to KSC science farming instead. Yep - I swapped one tedious science grind for an even more tedious science grind. Go me!

I suppose I could have monkeyed around with the game settings and given myself a bunch of science points to start off with, but that seemed like it was killing off most of the point of a Career game.

[regex]

On 9/28/2017 at 10:26 AM, Yemo said:

Looking at career streams/youtube videos, there are a lot of people skipping the early tech tree by using the KSC science exploit.

I m wondering how many do this and what are the reasons to do so?

If you're talking about a stream/Youtuber here then I have precisely zero reasons to watch someone go through the early game in KSP. That is incredibly boring and pretty much everyone does the same sorts of things. In fact, KSP is pretty damn boring to begin with in terms of streaming/Youtube, I much prefer watching people muck about in sandbox mode where they can let their freak out. Career is just ... terrible outside of single player.

On the personal side, I've cheated in enough science to get past the early grindy parts because I've been playing this game for years and I find that whole exercise extremely boring. I don't play games to be bored.

Edited September 29, 2017 by regex

[dvp]

I've only messed around with the space center biomes once. Built a "spaceplane" with mk1 parts and no wings, and put-puttered around gathering science.

It didn't get me many science points, so instead I ran missions until I had enough tech to orbit a science lab, and then waited on that until I had heavy rocketry to land science lab on Minmus. Between the basic experiments, high over, low over, different biomes, and stuff, you can load up with data very fast.

I'll probably move it to a different biome soon.

I'd say science labs are almost more of an exploit that the KSC biomes.

Edited September 29, 2017 by dvp

[KSK]

2 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

The most glaring to me though are the structural pieces. You shouldn't have to get to the 550 level to get stack adapters.  Other things like the Experiment storage container and LV-N could probably be pushed back.

Precisely! Structural parts appear too late in the tree, as do most of the engine clustering parts.

[katateochi]

I voted that I use the cheat menu, but what I do is even more "cheaty" than that.  Even if I spent a week in a nuclear reactor I wouldn't have enough fingers and toes to count how many times I've started a career game, and for me the fun bit of the early career game was taken out with one of the updates. When it was possible to build a craft that could reach Mun or Minmus on your first launch then there was a challenge in having the limited part set, but now it just seems dull and grindy (and I don't like the order of the tech tree). I want to be able to do what I want, but I still like the constraint of needing funding and there being some point to collecting science.  So now when I start a career game, the first thing I do is to modify the persistence file and give myself enough money and science to unlock and upgrade everything.  But I make a note of how much I "borrowed" (often on a flag that I plant at KSC), and then I have to do contracts to pay off the loan.  So it's basically sandbox and I can take an aviation or unmanned first route if I want, but I still have the career aspects of crew ranks and funding requirements.

[Rodhern]

I don't think the stock tech tree is terrible, but then I discovered how easy it is to tweak the tech tree with Module Manager, so now that is what I do.

[Helmetman]

Career isn't that much fun for me. I did 3 playthroughs and stopped halfway. Then I found out I never finished expanding a space empire. Now I just build things that I like building at the time. This varies each day. This kind of gameplay orientation really makes you forget about career.

I did had a career once using Interstellar extended. But eventually things get lame because the stock career is a clickable repetitive grind torture. Sending things just for the sake of the text uttered by Wernher for no obvious *any* reason then to do something a second or third time.

I did try career a couple of times thereafter. Now I just auto unlock the tech tree to 90 science nodes. Because this is where things start getting interesting for me in authorizing my own gameplay style.
Meanwhile I'm browsing threads here and there to see how I can customize career to my liking. I haven't yet found a mod package or tech tree tweaks of a specific order that send butterflies to my stomach. Until then, no career for me. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Helmetman

[Tyko]

I play Science mode and I use CTT plus a modified version of UbM. I have Science returns at 50% and I only do KSC science on runway and launch pad -  I don't farm the rest of the KSC biomes. I also tend to shoot straight for Basic Science so I don't have to keep launching essentially the same rocket with a single different science part. Just by doing a few test launches into the sea I can collect enough points to go suborbital and that gives me enough points to unlock Basic Science. 

I've found that I get a chance to at least do a few launches with early engines. As I go orbital and early lunar probes I'm flying Gemini era tech. Then I either do early lunar with Gemini and more science parts or unlock Saturn level tech but have fewer science parts.

This is working out very well for me both in 1x and 2.5x scale games.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Tyko

[dvp]

One of the mods I have includes part scaling. I assume it was intended for cosmetic reasons, except that part stats obey the square/cube rules, giving you ultra-high-capacity batteries, insanely huge and effective tail fins, and high powered rocketry basically immediately.

A 5m diameter Kickback will put basically anything into orbit.

Edited October 3, 2017 by dvp

[Vicomt]

Like many here, I've done the early game to death, I know I can do it, I just want to do more, more quickly, so I start a career with half the tech tree open, all the facilities upgraded, and just go from there. This time, I'm doing a semi grand voyage as my first expedition beyond LKO

[SiriusRocketry]

I used Unmanned before Manned but it won't work on 1.3.1, so does anyone have a good tech tree/ parts mod combo?

[A Soviet Tank]

I always do the KSC science exploit except I have a mod that gathers the science for me so I don't have to drive around KSC for an hour.