Career, simulations, finishing game

[Cassel]

Does career game have finish condition?

I would like to see credits and "the end" while I finish it.

It could be made in way with little change of contracts, some of them can be milestones for finishing career mode. If we visit and study every planet there could be "end game" or option to continue endless contract based game.

It should make sense if career mode would not allow restarting missions. If you crash and lost funds they are lost, but if you finish mission then it is great achievement, one step closer to finishing game. When you are out of funds it is game over and you have to start new career.

With no revert mission option we could have new mechanism of simulations in career mode. They can be done very simple by just making flight that doesn't take any funds from account. If I crash I lose nothing, but during "simulation/test flight" I can't finish any mission, it is only for testing things.

 

[Snark]

7 hours ago, Cassel said:

Does career game have finish condition?

Not currently, no.

7 hours ago, Cassel said:

I would like to see credits and "the end" while I finish it.

It could be made in way with little change of contracts, some of them can be milestones for finishing career mode. If we visit and study every planet there could be "end game" or option to continue endless contract based game.

Not a bad idea-- basically what you're asking for is a "campaign mode" with some form of directed story-line, rather than being completely open-ended as it is now.  Sounds interesting! 

I would contend that the game should absolutely not be changed to what you describe-- since there are a whole lot of players, myself included, who like it open ended, the way it is now.  On the other hand, different people like different things, and I think this could make a good addition to the game, i.e. another game mode.  "Sandbox, science, career, or campaign."

I note that the upcoming "Making History" expansion to KSP has, as a major feature, the ability to design custom "missions" with completion criteria and all kinds of stuff.  I wouldn't be surprised (note, I'm just guessing here, I have no special knowledge about this) if it includes the ability to have some sort of multi-step missions (complete A before going on to B).  So it seems to me that that could potentially be at least a baby step towards what you want.

7 hours ago, Cassel said:

It should make sense if career mode would not allow restarting missions. If you crash and lost funds they are lost, but if you finish mission then it is great achievement, one step closer to finishing game. When you are out of funds it is game over and you have to start new career.

That's available now, as a difficulty option.

7 hours ago, Cassel said:

With no revert mission option we could have new mechanism of simulations in career mode. They can be done very simple by just making flight that doesn't take any funds from account. If I crash I lose nothing, but during "simulation/test flight" I can't finish any mission, it is only for testing things.

Also available now.  Just switch to a sandbox save to do your experiment.  Or, if you prefer, leave "revert" turned on, but set yourself a house rule that you use it only for "simulating" and decide before each launch whether it's "real" or "experiment".

 

[NSEP]

Remember that KSP is a sandbox game and putting a set end to the game is sort of difficult. 

[dvp]

Isn't there a "grand tour" type mission in career mode, that you get offered if you have enough reputation? To orbit all the planets with the same ship or something? You could probably consider that the "end."

[Pthigrivi]

I generally see KSP more like snark, as an open-ended building and exploration game, but that needn't preclude benchmarks and little symbolic rewards. One way I've imagined this could be handled would be to add a ring of statues/sculptures/flags around the KSC flagpole for each body you've planted a flag on. They could include a commemorative plaque filled in with whatever you wrote on the first flag. It might seem a silly gesture, but it would cement a kind of trophy system in which completing the game wasn't about maxing the tech tree but about exploration, sending a crewed mission to each planet and moon in the Kerbol system.

[Spricigo]

9 hours ago, Snark said:

14 hours ago, Cassel said:

Does career game have finish condition?

Not currently, no.

And at the same time it may have. It's just a matter of player decision. 

Snark nailed it perfectly:

- Those conditions are not part of the game

-and don't need to be.

-adding it as an option is a good idea.

[[insert_name_here]]

4 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

I generally see KSP more like snark, as an open-ended building and exploration game, but that needn't preclude benchmarks and little symbolic rewards. One way I've imagined this could be handled would be to add a ring of statues/sculptures/flags around the KSC flagpole for each body you've planted a flag on. They could include a commemorative plaque filled in with whatever you wrote on the first flag. It might seem a silly gesture, but it would cement a kind of trophy system in which completing the game wasn't about maxing the tech tree but about exploration, sending a crewed mission to each planet and moon in the Kerbol system.

Yeah, I agree. KSP is, in the end, an open-ended sandbox game. I don't think career mode should have an "ending". But it would be nice to have an in-game achievements system for every career mode game. That way, some players have something to strive for - completing every achievement. It could be made into a "Hall of Fame" building in the KSC that displays a bunch of trophies, each representing an achievement.

 

For example:

"Land on the Mun"

"Orbit Laythe"

"Circumnavigate Kerbin"

"Capture 10 asteroids"

"Reach a speed of 1000 m/s on land"

"Reach an altitude of 10,000 petametres above Kerbol" (OK, that's a little too much)

 

It wouldn't be a proper ending, it would just be a way for players to visualise all the achievements they've made and give players actual goals.

Edited September 30, 2017 by [insert_name_here]

[Snark]

5 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

One way I've imagined this could be handled would be to add a ring of statues/sculptures/flags around the KSC flagpole for each body you've planted a flag on. They could include a commemorative plaque filled in with whatever you wrote on the first flag. It might seem a silly gesture, but it would cement a kind of trophy system in which completing the game wasn't about maxing the tech tree but about exploration, sending a crewed mission to each planet and moon in the Kerbol system.

Now that is a frickin' awesome idea!  I love it.

Some further ideas in that vein, but put in a spoiler section because this is Cassel's thread and I don't want to derail it. 

Spoiler

Here's how I'd go about it:

• Each celestial body in the game (other than Kerbin) has its own "spot" in the "hall of fame" around the flagpole.
• Before you've ever gone there, the spot is just a blank pedestal.
• The first time you do anything at all involving that body-- even if it's just an uncrewed flyby-- then a sculpture of some sort appears
• There's a hierarchy of "flyby, orbit, land, plant flag".  The farther up that hierarchy you go, the cooler / bigger / fancier the sculpture gets.
• I picture the sculptures as being done in a sort of kerbals-as-Greek-gods kind of thing.  Think marble statue of "Jool, the king of the gods" with thunderbolts in hand.
• The plaque on each statue lists the name of the body, and the date of each milestone.  "DUNA   First flyby:  Year 1, Day nnn", etc.
• And yeah, if you've planted a flag, include the inscription from the first flag (and the name of the kerbal who planted it).

 

[Spricigo]

25 minutes ago, Snark said:

Some further ideas in that vein, but put in a spoiler section because this is Cassel's thread and I don't want to derail it. 

If  derailing that thread is what you are worried about, may I suggested a new thread for that idea. 

Maybe ask a moderator() to move the post about it yo the new thread.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Spricigo

[Cassel]

I said that "ending of game" should be optional, if you want to continue endless contract based game play, like it is working right now, it should be possible.

I like idea of statues.

[Pthigrivi]

Thanks, Cassel. Like I said the idea of an end state is great. I think Kerbal is more of a take-screenshots-and-share kind of game than a story and cutscenes kind of game, so I was thinking of a way to give people some satisfying ending that worked with that. 

10 hours ago, Snark said:

Some further ideas in that vein...

Yeah those sound great. If they were really clever they could copy the craft file of the first landed vessel, miniaturize it and re-texture it in bronze

[Cassel]

I have another idea for archievements... what if kerbals would be able to make selfies to send them to facebook profile of player?

[Daveroski]

1 hour ago, Cassel said:

I have another idea for archievements... what if kerbals would be able to make selfies to send them to facebook profile of player?

No.

Just No!

For the last 3000 hours of play I haven't even been connected to steam while I play. I certainly wouldn't want it connected to anything else, least of all that.

Why would anyone want a picture from a game someone else is playing? Many people may already send such rubbish to everyone on their 'friend' list but who in their right mind would actually want to receive any?

So just to reiterate NO.

 

[Cassel]

1 minute ago, Daveroski said:

No.

Just No!

For the last 3000 hours of play I haven't even been connected to steam while I play. I certainly wouldn't want it connected to anything else, least of all that.

Why would anyone want a picture from a game someone else is playing? Many people may already send such rubbish to everyone on their 'friend' list but who in their right mind would actually want to receive any?

So just to reiterate NO.

 

Why people watch videos of other people playing game?

[Daveroski]

Just now, Cassel said:

Why people watch videos of other people playing game?

While this is very different from receiving unsolicited screen-dumps from 'friends' ,I will respond.

Some people take a dump on the floor and call it art. That doesn't make it right or a good thing.

Perhaps they watch because the would like to be able to play the game themselves but lack the ability and so play vicariously through the streamer.

Perhaps they can play so much better than the streamer that they find it amusing to watch someone else flap about.

Perhaps that have nothing better in their lives to occupy them.

Perhaps they watch to learn how to play.

But either way, they go to the site by choice and watch by choice. They watch someone who can only be seen if the viewer wishes to see them.

They are not receiving notifications from 'friends' saying "Oooo look what I did in my game aren't I special?"

Just my opinion of course.

[klgraham1013]

4 hours ago, Daveroski said:

While this is very different from receiving unsolicited screen-dumps from 'friends' ,I will respond.

Some people take a dump on the floor and call it art. That doesn't make it right or a good thing.

Perhaps they watch because the would like to be able to play the game themselves but lack the ability and so play vicariously through the streamer.

Perhaps they can play so much better than the streamer that they find it amusing to watch someone else flap about.

Perhaps that have nothing better in their lives to occupy them.

Perhaps they watch to learn how to play.

But either way, they go to the site by choice and watch by choice. They watch someone who can only be seen if the viewer wishes to see them.

They are not receiving notifications from 'friends' saying "Oooo look what I did in my game aren't I special?"

Just my opinion of course.

Maybe they watch because they find it entertaining.

[[insert_name_here]]

19 hours ago, Snark said:

Some further ideas in that vein, but put in a spoiler section because this is Cassel's thread and I don't want to derail it. 

  Hide contents

Here's how I'd go about it:

• Each celestial body in the game (other than Kerbin) has its own "spot" in the "hall of fame" around the flagpole.
• Before you've ever gone there, the spot is just a blank pedestal.
• The first time you do anything at all involving that body-- even if it's just an uncrewed flyby-- then a sculpture of some sort appears
• There's a hierarchy of "flyby, orbit, land, plant flag".  The farther up that hierarchy you go, the cooler / bigger / fancier the sculpture gets.
• I picture the sculptures as being done in a sort of kerbals-as-Greek-gods kind of thing.  Think marble statue of "Jool, the king of the gods" with thunderbolts in hand.
• The plaque on each statue lists the name of the body, and the date of each milestone.  "DUNA   First flyby:  Year 1, Day nnn", etc.
• And yeah, if you've planted a flag, include the inscription from the first flag (and the name of the kerbal who planted it).

 

That sounds like a really good idea.

[DAL59]

Maybe in the proposed campaign mode, there would be cutscenes?

[Superfluous J]

Generally, when I start a new career I know in my mind what I want to accomplish. A base on every planet and moon. "Colonize" Laythe. Whatever. Once I get that, I consider that save "won" and move on.

If I could set up all this in the career creation screen, cool. But I don't really want the game telling me what constitutes "winning."

[Spricigo]

7 minutes ago, DAL59 said:

Maybe in the proposed campaign mode, there would be cutscenes?

Instead of cutscenes (annoying videos interrupting the game) how about unlockable extras (the same videos accessible in a convenient [extras] menu after you fulfill the requirements)

 

Because I really don't care  as long as I can ignore it conveniently.  (Also I find the statue idea way cooler than cutscenes)