Mun Contract

[chatyakksp]

Just want to clarify for a mission I have... here's a photo:  

 

Does this base need to be one connected piece or can I land separate fuel tanks all near each other on the mun? Otherwise I have to dock it in space and land as one big go? I'm debating using the kerbal attachment system - been playing around with it on land and find that it should have been something in the main game.

[Julien Kerman]

When I did such a contract, I always launched the base in one connected piece because I knew that it works this way. 

[The Aziz]

It is "build", not "launch". Same goes for orbital stations, I fulfill the requirements in few launches and dock the modules, if it's easier this way.

Also, check if you'll make a profit from this, 11 Kerbals, 4k of LF, 1k monoprop, and all on the Mun, for ~400k funds.

[Vanamonde]

This question about how to play the game has been moved to Gameplay Questions.

[Geschosskopf]

9 hours ago, chatyakksp said:

Does this base need to be one connected piece or can I land separate fuel tanks all near each other on the mun? Otherwise I have to dock it in space and land as one big go? I'm debating using the kerbal attachment system - been playing around with it on land and find that it should have been something in the main game.

This appears to be a stock contract, not a mod contract.  With stock base and station construction contracts, it all has to be 1 connected thing, even if you have a mod like Pathfinder that allows unconnected things to still share resources.

So, what matters here is ending up with 1 big thing that includes all the specified parts and resources, located on the surface of Mun.  How you arrive at that result doesn't matter.  You can launch it all as 1 big uber-lander thing and just get it down safely somewhere on Mun.  You can send out multiple modules and connect them together once they're all on the ground, and you can use any stock or mod method to make the connections.  Docking ports, KLAW, KAS pipes, etc., just as long as it's all 1 single "craft" at the end.  The only things that you can't do is rely on mods that allow disconnected resource-sharing, and it all has to be new stuff.  You can't use any stuff already in existence at the time you accept the contract.

[chatyakksp]

1 minute ago, Geschosskopf said:

This appears to be a stock contract, not a mod contract.  With stock base and station construction contracts, it all has to be 1 connected thing, even if you have a mod like Pathfinder that allows unconnected things to still share resources.

So, what matters here is ending up with 1 big thing that includes all the specified parts and resources, located on the surface of Mun.  How you arrive at that result doesn't matter.  You can launch it all as 1 big uber-lander thing and just get it down safely somewhere on Mun.  You can send out multiple modules and connect them together once they're all on the ground, and you can use any stock or mod method to make the connections.  Docking ports, KLAW, KAS pipes, etc., just as long as it's all 1 single "craft" at the end.  The only things that you can't do is rely on mods that allow disconnected resource-sharing, and it all has to be new stuff.  You can't use any stuff already in existence at the time you accept the contract.

Thanks all. My problem is launching a base. Spent all day at it and getting nowhere. Using K&K planetary and attempting to attach to i-beams but the cost/overbuilding and all just isn't working. Getting very frustrated. Wanted to dock "normally" on 1 contract before using KAS which looks and has better function in my opinion.

[Spricigo]

"Lastly,  land your outpost ob the Mun"

Don't let that wording confuse you. You may think you need to get everything else before landing but that's not the case. As long as at some point we have a craft that fulfill all requirements it don't matter what happened along the way.

Warning about "new": it means you craft need to have a 'fabrication date' after you accepted the contract.  What you need to be cautious is that when two crafts are docked together they get the fabrication date of the older one so never dock any module of your new station to anything created before the contract was accepted. 

A possible advantage of  using multiple modules is that later you can get expand station/base contracts. So you can send multiple modules, put then together to complete the contract and separate all modules again. Each module will be a separate station that can generate an expansion contract or the expansion module for expanding the other stations (the contract don't exige a new module)

[Draalo]

Three posible solutions:

A - Build the base en block, (wrap it into a fairing), fly, land. MK3 passenger cabin + MK3 Lf Tank + 2x NERV radial comes to mind.

B - Build some (new! see above) modules, dock them in Kerbin or Mun orbit together, land.

C - Land seperate modules on the Mun, use a rover to dock them on the surface. KIS/KAS docking should work too. Use an ISRU and drills to produce the Lf needed when landed.

Oh - there is a hardcore solution too:

D - Build the Lf-module with a dockingport on top. Land it. Build a passengermodule with a dockingport beneath, land right on top of your Lf-module. Abuse quicksave/-load  

 

[Kryxal]

I'd probably just build it all as one piece but plan to land it empty ... BUT with ISRU (the small's enough, just have enough power to make it work somewhat).  This means, as long as you have the capacity, sooner or later you'll get the materials back.

[chatyakksp]

Thanks for the input all. Just a note that I don't have ISRU yet as I only have this part of the tech tree built up (click to make bigger):

 

 

So I'd have to land with fuel tanks or let time pass for more funds/science. My problem is funds and efficiency in rocket design - and for the modules being built together - each piece I'm putting together requires a probe and mono correct (in order to be controllable?)

So I send up a stack of habitats let's say, from the K&K mod - and each one has a probe, a battery, some mono, and rcs thrusters on it - in order to dock together - build it in orbit - then fly up another rocket that will move it to mun?

I thought of building a base with the stock parts but really wanted to try my hand at K&K units - maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew at the moment.

I have docked before a few times and landed on mun and minmus a bunch - that's about where I"m at it skill/design wise.

First I played around with this:

 

I had to add the fuel tanks on the left to stabalize the center of mass but its too wobbly a bit (just referencing ibeam nothing else)

 

Next, I built this:

 

 

I have stage recovery installed and am able to recover the two side boosters almost fully with that setup, but haven't figured out how to recover most of the middle section yet. It's not a complete rocket - just testing the bottom stages to see what could be recovered. I would add the base parts on the top and use a fairing. This contract is only $400K and I don't have the parts for a  SSTO yet properly (or  easily I'm aware of - no rapiers) so I'm thinking of using this second setup to move modules into space and then re-enter with the main rocket.

Edited October 8, 2017 by chatyakksp

[Palaceviking]

I'd split it into 3 (potentially independent)  modules and dock in Mün orbit then land- you may not make much profit this way but could be a good investment for the future as per @Spricigo says. Remember,  your space program will probably span decades if not centuries. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Palaceviking

[chatyakksp]

Here are a few more pics of my recoverable rocket (just added some more of a base and chutes and gears):

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems ok? Legs broke under landing test with full fuel but after orbit and no fuel it should be ok... just a matter of stacking modules now to low orbit and docking in orbit?

 

This is what I had planned out on land test -  but I'm not sure if that's the way to go with splitting up modules into one long core and then the side pieces: 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by chatyakksp

[Spricigo]

2 hours ago, chatyakksp said:

have to land with fuel tanks or let time pass for more funds/science. My problem is funds and efficiency in rocket design - and for the modules being built together - each piece I'm putting together requires a probe and mono correct (in order to be controllable? )

Yes and no.

You may have that stuff in a separated unit, a tug. This tug dock with the module that need to be controlled and is removed after use.

Just remember you will need a new tug for a new station.

 

 

[Draalo]

Didnt noticed that you have Planetary Base Systems installed. Its very easy to build surface dockable rovers then.

You dont have unlocked the K&K wheels, but doesnt matter. (Those have attachment nodes.)

Just attach a qubic strut to the sideway nodes. Rotate it with WASDQE till a node of the strut is facing towards a node, hold ALT while attaching. This will allways snap to the node. Mount a wheel of your choice to the strut.

Then click the strut again while holding ALT - this will copy the part. Add this copy to all needed nodes.

Also save the strut as subassembly, use only this subassembly for all rovers you build for that base. All dockingports will now have the same height.

********************************************************************************

Alternative approach with the option to make lots of founds in the future:

MK3 passenger cabin, Lf only tank below. Disable tanks to make sure you still have 4000Lf left when landed. Radial some MK1 Lf tanks + NERV.

Adapter or MK3 cockpit on top, add a probecore and dockingport, batteries, landing legs and solarpaneels. Science instruments will not hurt too.

 

Look for tourist contracts, any with "land on Mun" availiable?

With 4000 Lf left when landed, the base can start from the mun and return to a 80km Kerbinorbit easily. Send a refueller with a reentry capsule for the tourist, use the "base" in future for more landings (science) and tourist contracts. Fully refueled it should be possible to visit Duna, land on Ike and return to Kerbin with it. With a frontdocked Lf tank which is ditched when empty you can reach even further destinations. Add some dockingports Jr. for future antenna + RTG upgrade.

(At this moment i decided to build an example, sry if some information is now doubled, any text below is now refering to this vessel)

The TWR is a bit low but the vessel carries 4000 Lf, for further landings it will not be nessesary to carry all to the ground.

Fully refueled and all tanks enabled the vessel has over 5700m/s dV. Add a bunch of droguechutes and its ready to land on Duna and return to Kerbin. (Again: dock an additional tank for the transfer, if that tank can stay in Duna orbit, even better, redock and transfer fuel after you have visited the surface)

Note that the decouplers are stage disabled and crossfeed enabled.

 

You can simply use a 3,75m decoupler, no fairing needed. Yes, there will be some drag at the MK3-to-3,75m connection but minimal.

Full view:

I forgot to add 1000 monopropellant - just add 4x FL-R25 on the top of the dockingport and another dockingport on top of the tanks, TWR and dV are still fine for a Munlanding. (You may want to ditch the tanks OR add many RCS thrusters {full vessel = 80to.} and mount the tanks below the dockingport)

The cost are nearly 400,000 founds so you dont make a lot of profit. But it is reusable.

Refuel it and visit every Minmus biome for science in one go...

Collect surface samples from Duna and Ike while making profit with some tourist contracts...

After the resarch of PB-NUK and the 88-88 upgrade the vessel (thats why there are 2x dockingport Jr.  ) and you are ready for Jool and some of the moons there...

 

List of bodies you can land:

Gilly, Duna (TWR is ~1.5, droguechutes recommended), Ike, Mun, Minmus, Dres, (Vall, TWR ~2.0), Bop, Pol, Eeloo

You may consider to send tankvessels in advance to refuel in orbit for the way back to Kerbin.

 

Have fun

(If you or anybody else wants the .craft file - just call)

Edit:

12 hours ago, chatyakksp said:

each piece I'm putting together requires a probe and mono correct (in order to be controllable?)

Probecore is required, monopropellant not. Reactionwheels are enough to point the dockingport towards the incoming vessel. That one should have monopropellant and RCS thrusters.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Draalo
typos

[Spricigo]

3 hours ago, Draalo said:

Snip

What this craft do well? 

 

[Draalo]

2 hours ago, Spricigo said:

What this craft do well? 

 

Yes, was bored and did a testflight. Some additional struts were needed and i had to fill the MK3 Lf tank with 5000 Lf instead of 4000 to reach the goal 4000 Lf + 1000 monopropellant when landed. Did it in my careergame so i reverted after landing. Unfortunately no pictures  

 

Better design is to add another tank to the 2nd stage - had to burn the transfer in 3 steps because of the low TWR.

[AeroGav]

Had a go at this..  I really hate in-orbit assembly, docking so tried to make it single launch.  Has IRSU so can refuel on surface to meet the criteria.

Kept reducing the size of the poodle stage, now i find the twin twin boar stage is OP.

I think it's compact and squat enough to be sufficiently stable, it will be fairly stable on landing with near empty tanks and most of the weight down low, after some mining could be less so, we'll see...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wz2pyyjj1nvw7ru/moonbase alpha.craft?dl=0

edit - some shots from test flight

Edited October 9, 2017 by AeroGav