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Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion


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Ah my computer finally arrived home from the UK, I hate customs clearance procedures<_<

News since August: 

Yaogan(Remote Sensing)-35 satellites has successfully launched 9 satellites in 3 groups: Yaogan-35 Y66, Y67 and Y68. According to the badges, every end stage of the CZ-2Ds which launch Yaogan-35 all have de-orbit sails:

Spoiler

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CZ-2D Y75 rocket launched Beijing-3B satellite into orbit. This satellite is mainly used to provide telemetry data services in the fields of land and resources management, agricultural resources survey, ecological environment monitoring and urban comprehensive application. The reason why the badge is designed like this is that the launch time is close to the Mid-Autumn Festival.

Spoiler

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CZ-6 Y10 rocket successfully launched 16 commercial satellites into SSO on August 10. These satellites are used in commercial remote sensing, atmospheric imaging, and other fields. And Y11 rocket successfully sent Shiyan-16 A/B and Shiyan-17 satellites into the designed orbit. This one is mainly used in land census, urban planning, disaster prevention and mitigation and other fields. 

Spoiler

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CZ-7 Y5 rocket successfully launched Chinasat-1E satellite. But actually, this satellite is more likely to be an order from PLASSF... (The picture is from PLASSF's official Weibo)

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-"The satellite is mainly used to provide users with high-quality voice, data, radio and television transmission services."

-"The function looks pretty civil, but there is something wrong with this account who posted that..."

Kuaizhou-1A rocket launched the Chuangxin(创新,Innovation)-16 satellite into orbit at August 23 in Xichang Satellite Launch Center.  This satellite mainly used for scientific test and new technology verification (translate: I don't suggest you ask question)

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The commercial companies: Galactic Energy (星河动力)'s  CERES-1 (谷神星-1) Y3 rocket successfully launched Taijing(泰景)-1 01/02 satellites and Donghai(东海, East China Sea)-1 satellite into planned orbit. Taijing is mainly used to provide commercial remote sensing services. And Donghai is for verify the multi-mode remote sensing detection technology of micro polarized light camera.

Spoiler

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The black words at bottom "有爱不孤独", "中国社会福利基金会“, and "阿里巴巴公益" is another example for painting the advertisement on the rocket. It means "where there have love, there's no lonely", "China Social Welfare Foundation" and "Alibaba Public Welfare"

The Zhuque rocket from Landspace seems like have some progress: It is said that it may complete its debut show around the end of October.

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Something excited:

“On August 26, the reusable flight test of the lift suborbital launch vehicle independently developed by the First Institute of China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation was a complete success.
After health inspection and maintenance, the launch vehicle used in the flight test ignited and took off vertically at Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center again, completed the suborbital flight according to the set procedures, and landed stably and horizontally at Alxa Right Banner Airport, successfully realizing the first repeated flight of China's suborbital launch vehicle. The success of this flight test has strongly promoted the leap forward development of China's space transportation technology from one-time use to reuse” (Via. CASC)

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Simply put: this is the launch vehicle which will send the small space shuttle launched in early August (and this bad boy is still in orbit now). In fact, I'm more curious about which of these two things has a higher level of confidentiality. Perhaps similar to submarines and torpedoes: boats are secret, bombs are top secret.

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News from CSS these days:

The Shenzhou-14 crew has finished two EVA missions in 6 hours 7 minutes and 4 hours 24 minutes. The good news is, the cover of middle school students' physics textbooks can be updated now:

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Hours ago, the CSS was like:

On 6/8/2022 at 12:43 AM, steve9728 said:

Wentian's solar panels fully deploys. Then the combination turns and adjusts its attitude.

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Use the indexing robotic arm (Chiense version ‘Lyappa Arm') to shift Wentian from radial port to lateral permanent docking port:
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Re-adjust the attitude of the assemblage, wait for the docking of the Mentian and repeat a similar process:

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The indexing robotic arm works, and it works pretty well:

People asked, "would we take the EVA suit cover which has the crew's signatures back to home?", the answer from CNSA was "yes, it's in one of our plans."

Spoiler

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According to the navigation warning, the next new module "Mengtian" will be launched on October 31

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1 hour ago, steve9728 said:

“On August 26, the reusable flight test of the lift suborbital launch vehicle independently developed by the First Institute of China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation was a complete success.
After health inspection and maintenance, the launch vehicle used in the flight test ignited and took off vertically at Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center again, completed the suborbital flight according to the set procedures, and landed stably and horizontally at Alxa Right Banner Airport, successfully realizing the first repeated flight of China's suborbital launch vehicle. The success of this flight test has strongly promoted the leap forward development of China's space transportation technology from one-time use to reuse” (Via. CASC)

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Simply put: this is the launch vehicle which will send the small space shuttle launched in early August (and this bad boy is still in orbit now). In fact, I'm more curious about which of these two things has a higher level of confidentiality. Perhaps similar to submarines and torpedoes: boats are classified, bombs are top secret.

So this is a flyback booster with a side-slung expendable upper stage? Kinda giving me Rockwell 1969 vibes but that's cool.

Not sure I would want to launch humans on anything side-slung after STS, though.

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Something about the future Lunar discovery project:

The plan that takes a new Earth-Moon relay satellite with Chang'e 7 has been cancelled. Instead, it was planned to launch it alone. We make some handshakes with Emirates, and we would take a small rover from them on the Chang'e 7

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Spoiler

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And hello, solar system:

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Tianwen-2, the asteroid exploration mission is expected to be carried out in 2025. It will detect asteroid HO3. First, it will take about a year for the transfer and rendezvous. After a year of close orbit exploration, asteroid sampling will be conducted and the samples will be put into the returnee. It takes half a year to return to the Earth and "throw" the returnee back to the Earth, and then it will enter into the comet transfer orbit for about seven years. Seven years later, it will rendezvous with Comet 311P in the main belt and perform the comet orbit detection mission.

Tianwen-3, the Mars sampling return mission is expected to be carried out in 2028. The Tianwen-3 detector system is composed of two major parts: the orbit return assembly (orbiter+returner) and the landing assembly (cruise stage+lander+launcher), both of which are launched by Long March 5.

Tianwen-4, the Jupiter System and Planetary Crossing Exploration Mission. It will use Venus and the Earth to carry out three "gravitational slingshot" effects. In other words, there will be a chance to see Venus. On the way to Jupiter, the asteroid leap exploration will be carried out. When approaching Jupiter, the Leap detector will be separated from the main detector, and the Leap detector will perform the leap detection of Neptune. The main probe will perform Jupiter's orbit detection after being captured by Jupiter. At the same time, it will use Jupiter's gravitational slingshot effect several times to go to Callisto and perform the orbiting exploration mission of Callisto.

The last one is the Neptune exploration mission that is still being demonstrated. It also will be carried out the asteroid leap exploration and use Jupiter's gravitational slingshot to go to Neptune. It will perform atmospheric exploration of Neptune and penetrating exploration of Triton. The umbrella-like thing in front may be some kind of reactor I think.

 

And btw, Happy Birthday PRC!

35 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

So this is a flyback booster with a side-slung expendable upper stage? Kinda giving me Rockwell 1969 vibes but that's cool.

Not sure I would want to launch humans on anything side-slung after STS, though.

I think it is more like the An-225 but it has rocket engines and shuttle-like things are lot littler than the Buran. I really want to tell you what it would look like but... you know...

The "little X-47-like bad boy" has pictures of its fairings and rocket wreckage and we can guess the general outline. But this... man, it even doesn't use rocket!

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And another news about sky but not connected to CNSA: China's first domestic trunk airliner, C919, has obtained the aircraft type certificate issued by the Civil Aviation Administration of China. This means that now it has the conditions to deliver commercial flights to airlines. Although the production certificate issued to the aircraft factory and the airworthiness certificate of each aircraft were not issued on the same day, there was no hard obstacle to the commercial operation of C919. Good news is, the CCAR25 in China is a "pixel level replica" (thank you America, really) of the FAR25 in the US, so if the design is completed in strict accordance with the requirements in the regulations, it is no problem in theory to pass the technical approval of the EU and the US Airworthiness Bureau. However, many regulations of the US FAR25 has not been updated for more than ten years, which leads to many recent technologies on C919 not being able to find appropriate regulations or exemption clauses to approve. So, it may take several years to see it at airports outside of China.

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(C919, is an aircraft whose positioning and target are the same as those of Airbus 320neo and Boeing B737 MAX8)

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2 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Tianwen-3, the Mars sampling return mission is expected to be carried out in 2028. The Tianwen-3 detector system is composed of two major parts: the orbit return assembly (orbiter+returner) and the landing assembly (cruise stage+lander+launcher), both of which are launched by Long March 5.

And because of the Mars dust storm season and solar transit between Earth and Mars, here's actually two plans for it:

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To be on the safe side, I will choose the second one.

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@steve9728 Welcome back (to the forum)!

4 hours ago, steve9728 said:

And because of the Mars dust storm season and solar transit between Earth and Mars, here's actually two plans for it:

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To be on the safe side, I will choose the second one.

Wow. About a year ago or so I said that China might beat the US to the first Mars sample return by a couple months or weeks because both came back in 2031.

But the NASA-ESA schedule has slipped to 2033, so as long as no delays occur, China will bring the first ever samples back from Mars in 2031, a full two years ahead of the US.

There are caveats of course.

A cheaper private mission could be launched on expendable Starship, perhaps in the 2026 window. I say expendable because I don’t expect Starship to land on Mars before 2030, so long as it is taking ~two years or so to get to orbit and there won’t be any lunar flight until 2025 at the earliest. This private spacecraft could be big, and thus a 5M (Soviet MSR proposal with the N1) all-up style lander. A counter to this would be that the Starship community is mainly interested in human spaceflight, and I’m not sure of the willingness of a private organization to “steal the thunder” from NASA and ESA. I am not aware of any eccentric billionaires interested in funding their own MSR mission.

China’s mission might slip. After all, Tianwen-1 was supposed to launch in 2018 originally I think.

I think this would be a good thing though. The US will try to find scapegoats, and the easiest would be SLS- JPL and the private sector are pretty blameless. Those billions could have gone to MSR in 2031, yet it went into SLS.

This would probably kick off a “Mars Race”- not a real Mars race, I wouldn’t expect a Chinese crewed Mars landing until the 2040s at the earliest- but initiated by the US to land the first humans on Mars, perhaps another “before this decade is out” type goal of landing before 2040. Artemis’ government built habs would probably be abandoned, Artemis would become a science program and facilitator of commercial activities on the Moon. NASA would send astronauts there still but primarily focus on Mars.

Downside is crushed souls at NASA and ESA come June 2031.

Oh, by the way, despite no real race, the initiation of a crewed American Mars program would definitely kick off a Chinese program, just with no necessity of beating the US. China won’t want to be left behind.

Exciting! :D

8 hours ago, steve9728 said:

According to the navigation warning, the next new module "Mengtian" will be launched on October 31

Nothing says “Happy Halloween!” like a core stage slowly decaying towards an unknown crashing point. Spooky!

7 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

Not sure I would want to launch humans on anything side-slung after STS, though.

It is not intended for crew launches. That will remain the job of Long March 2F, Long March 7, and the future Long March 5 derived crewed variants.

Tengyun might be intended for crewed missions, I don’t remember. It is more akin to the Soviet Spiral spaceplane, lofted by a hypersonic carrier aircraft and then separating and launching into orbit.

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Hanging out with friend. While I waited for her to arrive, I went to some toy shop in the mall where we were meeting. Seems like CNSA authorized something pretty lovely:D

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CSS, in lovely version (¥89 is for the dolls)

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Normal CZ-5 and lovely CZ-5

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CZ-6, but it seems to have fallen down

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A astronaut with spacesuit, Zhurong Rover and Tianzhou cargo ship

I might have bought it all back if I hadn't run out of shelves in my room.

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Something about recent CNSA's science progress:

Scientists found a new kind of mineral from the samples from Chang'e 5 taken back to Earth. They named it "Changesite-(Y) (嫦娥石)".  Surprising for me is this new mineral has wiki link now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changesite–(Y). More than that, Chang’E-5 samples reveal high water content in lunar mineralsImpact-driven disproportionation origin of nanophase iron particles in Chang’e-5 lunar soil sample and Surface microstructures of lunar soil returned by Chang’e-5 mission reveal an intermediate stage in space weathering process. The last two have a pay wall. So, the finding of the first one from Nature is:

"...The low-velocity impacts experienced by this sample often occur on the surface of objects in the main asteroid belt and can reveal weathering patterns in atmospheric free bodies far from the Sun (the main asteroid belt). The whole process is entirely dominated by the impact event and does not include other space weathering factors (e.g. from the solar wind) ...Therefore, for predictions of water on the lunar surface, regions that are difficult to bombard with micrometeorites should also be considered. Low velocity impact events can be caused not only by low velocity travelling micrometeoroids, but also by debris impacts from high velocity impacts. This implies that low velocity impact events are more frequent than high velocity impacts, or that the effects of large impacts are mainly caused by low velocity impacts."

And the last one is:

"The FeO nanocrystals and layered rim microstructures found in this work suggest that the iron peridotite studied may be in an intermediate stage of thermal decomposition, supporting the idea that stepwise reduction of iron peridotite occurred under solar weathering. In addition, chemical elemental and morphological analyses reveal that the surfaces of pyroxene and feldspar do not contain amorphous layers and volatile exotic elements (e.g. sulphur, chlorine, etc.), and the interior of the samples show no traces of solar flare passage, suggesting that the studied samples may have been in an intermediate to early stage of solar weathering."

Zhurong rover helps the scientist wrote this: Layered subsurface in Utopia Basin of Mars revealed by Zhurong rover radar. Utopia Planitia probably used to have an ancient ocean. Zhurong found water-bearing minerals in slabby crustal rocks near it's landing zone.

 

And I found something not so that recently but is indeed interesting: United Nations/China Cooperation on the Utilization of the China Space Station (CSS): Selected Experiment Projects to be executed on board the CSS for the 1st Cycle. If everything goes well already, I think some of them were already mounted in the CSS now. In addition to China, they come from several countries' different universities, private space companies and research institutions including Switzerland, Poland, Germany, India, Russia, Belgium, Japan, Netherlands, Norway, Peru, Spain, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Italy and Kenya. (One of the projects is from Tsinghua University and University of Tokyo, WOW)

 

Add: An article about the several ground tests for the Zhurong rover. Although it's Chinese but I think it's really interesting. Let Chrome do something for you:D

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A more detailed video about Wentian module shifted to starboard side. When it docked with Tianhe, the entire station shakes a little bit:D

I am a "symmetrical object lover", so I may have to suffer for a month:

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Picture via: https://weibo.com/u/7394207363?layerid=4819402710846240

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 CNSA has started the selection of a new echelon, the fourth echelon of astronauts. CNSA will select two payload specialists from Hongkong and Macau.

Pretty good, it's time to use all these PhDs and experts that have been trained these years. But barring that, no offence to them, I've been to Macau and I'm honestly quite surprised that this small place could select a qualified candidate.

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17 hours ago, steve9728 said:

 CNSA has started the selection of a new echelon, the fourth echelon of astronauts. CNSA will select two payload specialists from Hongkong and Macau.

Pretty good, it's time to use all these PhDs and experts that have been trained these years. But barring that, no offence to them, I've been to Macau and I'm honestly quite surprised that this small place could select a qualified candidate.

More details: "A total of 12 to 14 reserve astronauts will be selected, including 7 to 8 space pilots and a total of 5 to 6 space flight engineers and payload specialists, of whom about 2 will be payload specialists. Space pilots are selected from among active pilots of the army, navy and air force; space flight engineers are selected from among scientific research and engineering technicians engaged in aerospace engineering and related fields; and payload specialists are selected from among scientific researchers engaged in space science research and application-related fields." (From Takungpao)

As for the fields in which the experts are needed, "the basic requirements for the selection of load specialists in Macau are to have worked for at least three years in fields related to medicine, biology, psychology, physics and chemistry, mechanical or electrical engineering, astronomy, etc., to have a doctorate and to be in good health, and to be between 30 and 45 years of age." (From CCTV News)

Physical requirements:
-Height of 162-175cm for men and 160-175cm for women
-Healthy, non-allergic, no previous medical or family history that may affect flight service
-Naked eye vision of not less than 0.1 in both eyes, corrected vision of not less than 0.8, no color blindness
-Psychologically healthy

Candidate institutes: 
(i) 11 local universities;
(ii) five Government research and development (R&D) centres (including Automotive Platforms and Application Systems R&D Centre, Hong Kong Applied Science and Technology Research Institute, Hong Kong Research Institute of Textiles and Apparel, Logistics and Supply Chain MultiTech R&D Centre, and Nano and Advanced Materials Institute) and Hong Kong Productivity Council;
(iii) research institutions/ companies at the Hong Kong Science Park and Cyberport; and
(iv) Government departments and the Hospital Authority.   (From Government of HK SAR Press Releases)

And most important thing: these experts from Hong Kong and Macau really needs to practice speak Mandarin properly. However, there are quite a few Chinese astronauts and people in CNSA from Northeast China. As the type of accent that is most likely to "take one's accent away" in China, this should not be difficult.

3 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

The clearance on those solar panels tho… :wacko:

You're a bit worse off than me, you'll probably have suffered for a month to two months or so until the Shenzhou-15 crew shifts both of them to the truss at end of two modules.

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3 hours ago, steve9728 said:

these experts from Hong Kong and Macau really needs to practice speak Mandarin properly

Is it more difficult for them to understand one another than for a Texan to understand a Bawstin guy? 

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57 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Is it more difficult for them to understand one another than for a Texan to understand a Bawstin guy? 

It is not particularly difficult for Cantonese speakers to understand what Mandarin speakers are saying, what is difficult is for Mandarin speakers to understand what Cantonese speakers are saying. Especially if the Cantonese speaker is trying to speak Mandarin, but his Mandarin isn't that standard (From what I know of English, it's probably a bit similar to a German trying to use English to communicate with you and his English accent is a bit... you know). However, at worst here's still easy to communicate through Chinese characters.

Add: I search when were the third echelon astronauts were recruited, and the answer is the recruitment starts in 2017. The selection is completed and training begins in 2020, so logically, now training should be finished or at least 'almost'. 3 years of training is enough for anyone to master another language using the same characters.

(The third echelon has 7 pilots, 7 engineers and 4 payload experts. 17 men and 1 woman)

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53 minutes ago, steve9728 said:

It is not particularly difficult for Cantonese speakers to understand what Mandarin speakers are saying, what is difficult is for Mandarin speakers to understand what Cantonese speakers are saying. Especially if the Cantonese speaker is trying to speak Mandarin, but his Mandarin isn't that standard (From what I know of English, it's probably a bit similar to a German trying to use English to communicate with you and his English accent is a bit... you know). However, at worst here's still easy to communicate through Chinese characters.

Add: I search when were the third echelon astronauts were recruited, and the answer is the recruitment starts in 2017. The selection is completed and training begins in 2020, so logically, now training should be finished or at least 'almost'. 3 years of training is enough for anyone to master another language using the same characters.

(The third echelon has 7 pilots, 7 engineers and 4 payload experts. 17 men and 1 woman)

That's interesting - so it's more than just an accent?  Words and phrases are different? 

Also - you say 'same characters' is Cantonese written differently than Mandarin, too? 

Also - why is it easier for a Cantonese speaker to understand Mandarin than the other way around - or both unintelligible to each other? (goes to 'more than an accent' thing.) 

Finally IIRC, you're from the south: I presume you can understand both? 

Heh - so many questions! 

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44 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

That's interesting - so it's more than just an accent?  Words and phrases are different? 

Also - you say 'same characters' is Cantonese written differently than Mandarin, too? 

Yes, it's more than an accent. What it sounds like is totally different between Cantonese and Mandarin. But nearly all the dialects in China all can use Chinese characters to read by what dialect you master (Except for Tibetan, Uyghur, Mongolian and some minority languages in the south-western mountains).

Hong Kong, Macau and, of course, Taiwan, they use Traditional Chinese. But Simplified and Traditional Chinese are basically the "literal version" of "you'll have no problem understanding American English to live in the UK". Traditional Chinese for me is more of a font that my brain can automatically switch to when reading translated Japanese manga, and something I would write a bit of when my dad told me to practice calligraphy: A 'tool' that is a little complicated and not easy to use for me. In literal level, the different with Traditional and Simplified Chinese are little bit similar to wanna/ want a and goona /going to.

Spoiler

Of course, in the case of a child, if his teacher gave him the punishment of copying the text as many times as teacher want, I bet the kid would use simplified Chinese characters if he had the choice.

Add: I think why the Cantonese speaker are more easier to understand Mandarin speakers say than opposite way is because of the "cultural influence issues": two or three decades ago, the song and movie from HK were really popular in Mainland. All of them have Traditional Chinese subtitles. So when people watch too many of these traditional subtitles, they convert them into another font that can be switched within the brain at any time. Now the situation is reversed, mainland Chinese songs and films are actually quite popular with them, so it creates a situation like this.

For myself, well, what HK and Macau people saying, the Cantonese, is from a city called "Guangzhou". 'Coincidentally', my parents, as well as other elders, are all from Guangzhou. When I was a child, the fact that my family always communicated in Cantonese caused me to speak rubbish Mandarin, which led to my kindergarten teacher asking my parents not to communicate with me in Cantonese as much as possible. However, the situation changed dramatically when I started primary school: all the Chinese teachers who taught me were from the north-east of China. "Yeah, I know", one of friends of my dad who is from Beijing said to my dad, "why your son's accent suddenly became to a native Northeastern when he goes to school?"

Spoiler

How the hell I know!

 

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Currently the clearest photo in Wentian module:

image.png

On the left is the Sleeping Bay 1, at the top of Liuyang is the Sleeping Bay 2, and on the right is 3. What is behind her should be the airlock. The tag on the green bag is "Wentian Payload Adapter Type I Active Terminal Unit 01"

"Remember the neat and tidy look of the house you have just moved into."

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On 10/4/2022 at 12:22 AM, steve9728 said:

Currently the clearest photo in Wentian module:

More photos:

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Now we can see the orange rectangle next to the fire extinguisher is an emergency breathing apparatus. The tag on it means: Caution! High-pressure chlorine bottle inside!

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Well... well done man

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Comments in Weibo that the picture is a night view of the city of Chengdu (where the famous Giant Panda Conservation Base is located).

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Hello, Greece & Turkey

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It doesn't officially say what it is, is it a tomato seedling?

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Qinghai Lake and Longyangxia Dam

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Add: someone said that this is Amazon River. Somewhere near Santarem in Brazil

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Leichow Peninsula and Hainan island. Technically the crew can see the launches in Wenchang Launch Center. (If camera can slightly to the left and you can see Hong Kong and where I am hahaha)

(Via. CMSA's offical Weibo)

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On 10/3/2022 at 8:15 AM, steve9728 said:

why your son's accent suddenly became

I had a relevant experience when I went to Germany - ostensibly to improve my German.* 

The folks I talked to in English had either Perfect American Midwest accents or Perfect Cambridge British accents.  Not kidding.  You'd start talking in English to a room full of Germans, and it would be like a convention of Americans and Brits who use odd phrases.  Like "I need to go look for a parking."  (In American English, you look for a 'parking spot'.  'Parking' is the verb describing what you do as you pull into the spot, or what your grandmother did with boys before she met your grandfather.)  Their accents were so good I actually had to confirm they were native German speakers.

 

 

*(This is funny, only if you understand that German kids who choose English as their second language, get like 10 years of instruction before they graduate... compared to my 3 years in HS/College... and that 'going to Germany to practice German = Germans talking to you in English THE WHOLE TIME.  I had to go to the Czech Republic to learn to speak German.  No joke.).

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