Is there a mathematical way to predict where snowbanks will form?

[Findthepin1]

Every day I have to walk outside as part of my daily schedule. I noticed that snowbanks always form in a specific spot on this hill near my house, and I guess since it does that every time, there must be a way to calculate it. How do I do that?

[Steel]

Short answer: I'm sure there is, but I'm also sure it would be incredibly complicated. We're probably talking a PhD's worth of work to do it, since you're looking at weather patterns, fluid dynamics, hill geometry e.t.c

[Findthepin1]

11 minutes ago, Steel said:

Short answer: I'm sure there is, but I'm also sure it would be incredibly complicated. We're probably talking a PhD's worth of work to do it, since you're looking at weather patterns, fluid dynamics, hill geometry e.t.c

Okay thanks!

[Ten Key]

There's a whole branch of engineering devoted to this sort of thing. . .snow is very heavy and if it piles up in the wrong place it can cause structural failure. 

It looks like Google Books has excerpts from a textbook called Snow Engineering available for preview. You might find some of the case studies interesting. 

[wumpus]

17 minutes ago, Steel said:

Short answer: I'm sure there is, but I'm also sure it would be incredibly complicated. We're probably talking a PhD's worth of work to do it, since you're looking at weather patterns, fluid dynamics, hill geometry e.t.c

If it is in the same spot every time, you can assume that variable factors won't effect it.  This pretty much leaves out weather patterns.  Fluid dynamics, hill geometry are certainly factors.

I suppose that if there is a sufficiently prevailing wind, that might matter (after taking into account any local aerodynamics).

[Steel]

1 minute ago, wumpus said:

If it is in the same spot every time, you can assume that variable factors won't effect it.  This pretty much leaves out weather patterns.  Fluid dynamics, hill geometry are certainly factors.

I suppose that if there is a sufficiently prevailing wind, that might matter (after taking into account any local aerodynamics).

I said weather patterns more from the point of view that, if there are regular formations, there is probably some specific weather pattern that happens regularly in the area that causes it.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Steel

[Green Baron]

Snow isn't snow and wind isn't wind and shapes of things isn't shapes of things. These three are the basic features that let snow pile up. The usual atmospheric measures like temperature, pressure, humidity surface temperature, insolation, precipitation etc. blabla. pp. play a role as well.

 

I doubt it can be exactly calculated because dynamic system but it can surely be approximated. For use at home a little experience should suffice. Strong wind and an arrangement of pits/ditches as well as obstacles like levees/buildings are the usual places. There is overpressure in front and underpressure behind, in windward parts the airflow keeps the snow crystals in suspension depending on their weight (wet/dry), in the underpressure they sink down. Laminar flow supports suspension as well, turbulence rather draws patterns, carries away or deposits. Depends :-)

If you can give us more specifics about the circumstances we could look up details.

 

Edit: sedimentary geology has a lot of work on flow and deposit of sediments in different regimes and with different energies, but i am too lazy to look it up :-)

Second edit: oh, the way to school. Yeah well over time experience will tell. Observe how wind direction and speed influence the banks. Take a sample (science !) and form a ball for practical ... experiments :-)

Edited October 12, 2017 by Green Baron

[kerbiloid]

Try to find a spot near your home where a snowbank grows at the same time. Look at it to predict.

[YNM]

What's a snowbank ? I looked it up and it says "snow clearing". If that's the case then surely it's more of a matter of where they were clearing it ?

Regarding "is there a way to predict it": Sort of. If we assume snow in the wind are just like sediments carried in the river currents, I believe there should be a model or approximation for it, though may not be exact and precise.

Edited October 13, 2017 by YNM

[magnemoe]

12 hours ago, Green Baron said:

Snow isn't snow and wind isn't wind and shapes of things isn't shapes of things. These three are the basic features that let snow pile up. The usual atmospheric measures like temperature, pressure, humidity surface temperature, insolation, precipitation etc. blabla. pp. play a role as well.

 

I doubt it can be exactly calculated because dynamic system but it can surely be approximated. For use at home a little experience should suffice. Strong wind and an arrangement of pits/ditches as well as obstacles like levees/buildings are the usual places. There is overpressure in front and underpressure behind, in windward parts the airflow keeps the snow crystals in suspension depending on their weight (wet/dry), in the underpressure they sink down. Laminar flow supports suspension as well, turbulence rather draws patterns, carries away or deposits. Depends :-)

If you can give us more specifics about the circumstances we could look up details.

 

Edit: sedimentary geology has a lot of work on flow and deposit of sediments in different regimes and with different energies, but i am too lazy to look it up :-)

Second edit: oh, the way to school. Yeah well over time experience will tell. Observe how wind direction and speed influence the banks. Take a sample (science !) and form a ball for practical ... experiments :-)

Yes, I know that roads and railways up at mountains are designed to reduce snow buildup, it will always be an problem as the road is lower than the snow cover but you can reduce snow bank buildup so you need less cleaning. 
Easiest way is to slow the wind down before it reach the road, this will deposit most snow here, trees are perfect for this but don't grow so far up so you use structures. 

Same would work in smaller scale, wind blowing snow from fields over the lawn and into the driveway, bushes at the edge of lawn would probably leave lots of the snow on the lawn rather than driveway 

[mikegarrison]

14 hours ago, wumpus said:

If it is in the same spot every time, you can assume that variable factors won't effect it.  This pretty much leaves out weather patterns.

The vast majority of weather patterns are very predictable and repeatable.

14 hours ago, Steel said:

I said weather patterns more from the point of view that, if there are regular formations, there is probably some specific weather pattern that happens regularly in the area that causes it.

Yes, exactly. For instance, in the mountains snow banks often form in the exact same place every year because of orographic effects. E.g. some location where the winds are often from the south, and when they are from the south they blow through this certain gap in the rocks, and that causes the snow to be deposited in the lee on the other side, so....

ps. If you want to know more about snow, and you live near the mountains, seek out whoever does the avalanche forecasting in your area. They will know an amazing amount about snow.