karamazovnew

VR - Let's take it to next level

Recommended Posts

, make what run on a phone? KSP obviously can't, and I don't know how a VR would.

You would need a really large patreon number in order to properly fund development of this, assuming it would even be possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16/10/2017 at 12:10 AM, karamazovnew said:

As prices go down and the technology improves, all current KSP players would at least try it in VR at one point, because they'll all own a headset.

For me, this the kicker of the argument. At this stage, I'm unconvinced that VR will be 'cheap' enough in the near future to be as widespread as you state here. Especially when combined with other issues such as motion sickness which prevent a not insignificant percentage of people from being able to use for extended periods of time, and the fact that it's quite a bit less 'plug and play' than traditional methods, it just doesn't seem likely to me.

...that said. I don't think that it's just a gimmick. I think it is one of those things that'll stick around and be a valid way of playing certain games... similar to racing wheels and joysticks, once it eventually does become cheap enough. But much like them, I don't think it'll be much more than a niche thing outside of 'I tried it in an arcade' once.

The point is that at this stage, VR is risky. Most of the gameplay in KSP would have to be redesigned for VR, for it to be the great experience that we'd want (unless they just tacked on something crappy, which defeats the point entirely). For SQUAD, it would be a lot of time and money pouring into what is essentially a gamble - will VR be big in the next 5-10 years? No-one really knows. And, as bad as it sounds, it makes more sense to wait for someone else to go first and open up that audience anyway. At the moment, VR is still incredibly niche, as mentioned by others, so it makes no sense to devout energy towards right now. Maybe in the future, but not now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

, make what run on a phone? KSP obviously can't, and I don't know how a VR would.

Not only that, but too many people confuse the Oculus/Vive masterrace VR with the phone plastic bolt-on versions. The difference between the two, quality wise, is astronomical. 

 

50 minutes ago, GluttonyReaper said:

For me, this the kicker of the argument. At this stage, I'm unconvinced that VR will be 'cheap' enough in the near future to be as widespread as you state here.

Ok, I exagerrated, but I was just trying to make a point. In the early 80's, I'm guessing there were a lot of mail discussions about why not to put mouse controls in games, because nobody has a mouse, except those elitist Amstrad users (or whatever). Right now, VR is expensive mostly because you need a good PC. That's not something that's gonna change, even in 10 years, because the best VR of its day will always need a monster PC. But headsets themselves will get cheaper. Would you be willing to spend 300$ for a good VR? Well, right now Oculus sells at 399$, so it's not far. Right now we only have HD resolution, but once the 4K or 8K resolution headsets will come out, the HD ones might be quite cheap. And yes, I've seen a few folk not being able to use VR for long or at all, due to sickness. But those that didn't instantly puke, soon developed a resistance to it. I actually quite envy them. I miss that "oh my god! cold sweat on my back" moment when I first made my first loop in War Thunder, more than one year ago.

The biggest problem VR now has is there aren't really that many proper games for it. I have enough to keep me busy and my face sweaty all day long, but I am looking forward to Fallout4 VR, because it will be the first mainstream game to take the plunge and offer a proper world. So there's a special room for Jeb and Co in this emerging VR market. And with the game already made, it only needs VR support to enter that market. I keep hearing this "niche" word, but I remind you that we have TrackIR support and that 6DOF controller thing (check the options screen). So these devs are not scared of attending to the niche.

Edited by karamazovnew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, karamazovnew said:

The biggest problem VR now has is there aren't really that many proper games for it. I have enough to keep me busy and my face sweaty all day long, but I am looking forward to Fallout4 VR, because it will be the first mainstream game to take the plunge and offer a proper world. So there's a special room for Jeb and Co in this emerging VR market. And with the game already made, it only needs VR support to enter that market. I keep hearing this "niche" word, but I remind you that we have TrackIR support and that 6DOF controller thing (check the options screen). So these devs are not scared of attending to the niche.

TrackIR and 6DOF aren't that difficult compared to VR.  They are only different control inputs.

VR essentially needs to render the same entire scene two times in order to provide the 3D effect (please correct me if I'm wrong here),  each view offset from the other by a certain amount.  I really don't know how the VR headsets work, but my feeling is that a good VR will need something akin to a top video board in the system in order to do the rendering properly.

From the game itself, it may not be that difficult, we already have the mod Through the Eyes of a Kerbal, and other camera mods which can present the same scene in different views, all thanks to modders and Unity for providing the tools.  So, combining Through The Eyes with TrackIR would be a poor man's way to do VR with a cheap vr headset.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

VR essentially needs to render the same entire scene two times in order to provide the 3D effect (please correct me if I'm wrong here)

You're not wrong. But that is already done by the existing framerworks. SteamVR SDK works with anything DirectX10. However, KSP is built on Unity 5.4 which already has VR. Heck, you can do your own game in VR if you want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIATVY0sXuU

So, unless there's something really fishy between Unity and KSP, the devs could get it up and running within a week, if they're lazy. It's the other issues that I worry about, such as

- how the interface is handled

- how it affects existing mods and their way of handling the interface (hopefully, it shouldn't affect them at all)

- how it can be used for gameplay

- how bad it moves

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last few months have been really good for VR with some big releases from major studios. One of the most frequent critiques of VR that I hear is "there are no good games". Well I think its time to put that argument to bed. I am a picky player when it comes to spending my money and I've got 31 VR titles in my Steam library, some I haven't even gotten to yet. And that still doesn't count the premium Oculus exclusives I've own on the Rift. 

We've also heard that VR games have to be made from the ground up to be any good. But Bethesda has shown it can be done well with Doom, Skyrim, and Fallout. Apparently LA NOIR for VR is very good as well. Flight/Space sims are ideal for VR so I don't see this as a problem. 

Lastly, as for VR adoption rates, I've seen several reports that estimate half a million users between Rift and Vive alone. That's better than smartphones one year after release. Between the price cuts and the launch of inside out tracking Windows headsets, it seems this growth trend will continue.

I would love, Love, LOVE to experience KSP in good VR. I would buy a VR version sold separately if that's what it took. It may not be a the most profitable choice for development, but they may want to do it for other reasons. I hope they consider it.

I suspect most of the criticisms for this idea comes from players who don't own VR. I may be wrong ofcourse. But once you've experienced presence in a game, which is really hard to describe, you find yourself wanting that feeling in your favorite flat games too. Every single day people are posing on Reddit  about how they've tried it for the first time and had their mind blown. I was skeptical and set a pretty high standard that was blown away within 5 mins. It was, excrements you not, like being a kid trying Nintendo for the first time. 

TLDR: VR continues to grow with good titles, an old game CAN be ported to VR well,  and VR is not a 3D TV gimmick. 

Edited by Godit
grammar and words

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bumping because the KSP VR mod has apparently been fixed to work in 1.4, but I think it might be for Windows 10 only. If anyone's got an idea on how to make it work in Windows 7, lemme know!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BarryDennen12 said:

Bumping because the KSP VR mod has apparently been fixed to work in 1.4, but I think it might be for Windows 10 only. If anyone's got an idea on how to make it work in Windows 7, lemme know!

Your sig, fix it lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" Your sig, fix it lol."

Only gotta ask once yo. It was a clickable when I first put it there, I had no idea it came up as a huge video now haha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/30/2018 at 10:33 AM, BarryDennen12 said:

" Your sig, fix it lol."

Only gotta ask once yo. It was a clickable when I first put it there, I had no idea it came up as a huge video now haha.

The forum automatically turns links like that into expanded window type things, I think you can use the "Link" button to post it in your sig as a regular old hyper link.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fully support having KSP VR. It is awesome in War Thunder, so it should be pretty cool in KSP. One idea I really liked is the "build your rockets like the VAB is your room" idea, where the rocket is 2 meters tall and floating in front of you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/30/2018 at 3:24 PM, BarryDennen12 said:

Bumping because the KSP VR mod has apparently been fixed to work in 1.4, but I think it might be for Windows 10 only. If anyone's got an idea on how to make it work in Windows 7, lemme know!

Definitely works better than the previous version. I'll leave a link here so all can see for themselves: https://github.com/Vivero/Kerbal-VR

10 hours ago, EnderKid2 said:

I fully support having KSP VR. It is awesome in War Thunder, so it should be pretty cool in KSP. One idea I really liked is the "build your rockets like the VAB is your room" idea, where the rocket is 2 meters tall and floating in front of you.

Well, the VR mod works in the VAB but is "real scale" and it's just for walking around, not building. I love building plane models so having a 2 meter high big rocket is what I'd go for myself.

The stock cockpits look really nice in VR. I've gotten used to the real scale in IL-2 BoS or DCS. But these are a bit smaller, due to the size of a Kerbal. This mod has its flaws (no interface, only available in IVA and VAB/SPH, camera is not particularly smooth, a few graphical bugs) but it really nails in the idea that the stock game itself is fit for VR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just tried out Vivero's mod last night and WOW.   Docking two ships nose to nose from inside the cockpit was pretty incredibly immersive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.