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Gordon Fecyk

Landed craft bounces on saved game load, KSP 1.3.1

Question

This seems to have been introduced in KSP 1.3.1. Some wheels bounce harder than others, but all have some bounce.

Spoiler

 

The large gear seems to have the least noticeable bounce, but it's quite noticeable at Minmus. The others are very noticeable back at KSC. The small gear seems the most stable.

To avoid scrolling down, here are current bug reports filed on this problem. Please upvote these.

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/16159 <- Surface collisions on physics start

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/16090 <- Related to prerelease bug #15796 Non-active vessels jumping on load still happening on 1.3.1

Edited by Gordon Fecyk
Added links to bug tracker reports

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I can also confirm in stock 1.3.1.1891(x64).

I also noticed that when you retract/extend the landing gear of a stationary vehicle, the wheels collide through the surface, and the craft appears to rest on the wheel axles rather than the wheels themselves. Whenever the gear is extended and locked, the craft bounces up from the axle height to the wheel height, sometimes quite violently. The change in surface interaction from axle to wheel may also be happening during loading of a save, resulting in this bouncy behaviour.

EDIT: On further investigation, the behaviour I described above seems to happen only with the "Large" and "Extra Large" landing gear. The "Small" and "Medium" landing gears don't clip through the ground during retraction/extension, however they do bounce on completing the extension sequence, particularly the "Medium" landing gear which also seems to hover above the ground during retraction/extension.

Edited by Yakuzi

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I did remove them in sections to help speed up the process. But my drive is not the fastest so most of the time was just waiting at the splash screen :) And yes it was one of the last ones that I tried.

I did figure out a few more things. The problem does not see to be there when not on landing legs or having the drills retracted. So if I raise the legs and is it sitting on the engines or if it falls over it does not seem to do it.

I guess my question is what can I do in the meantime? I love playing this game and have quite a bit of time in it so far so is there any workarounds? I noticed that there are some stabilizer legs that have the ability to be attached to the ground that I have not tested yet. Or is there a way to build the crafts that I land on low gravity planets so they dont kerbounce?

Obiviously you guys see that it is a bug so do you guys know what the time frame of it possibly getting fixed or if it is even being worked on? I was even thinking of restarting my career in 1.3.0. I noticed that mechjeb landing seems to actually work in 1.3.0 also. 

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1 hour ago, Yakuzi said:
1 hour ago, Yakuzi said:

may also be happening during loading of a save,

It also happens when flying another craft from say orbit and landing near the one(s) that are on the surface. As soon as you come into view all of them jump and you get to watch the destruction from a far. I had 4 landed in the same location on Minimus when when I tried landing a 5th they all jumped and most landed on their sides.

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1 hour ago, Yakuzi said:

On further investigation, the behaviour I described above seems to happen only with the "Large" and "Extra Large" landing gear. The "Small" and "Medium" landing gears don't clip through the ground during retraction/extension, however they do bounce on completing the extension sequence, particularly the "Medium" landing gear which also seems to hover above the ground during retraction/extension.

The Falcon Landing Gear Small will do it also.

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I may have a solution for the landed craft for now. I tested the "Landing Stabilizer" legs and they have a "Toggle Ground Tether" option. So they are somewhat bolted down and cannot bounce???

Is there another way to bolt stuff down with something like KAS or putting down something like the asphalt that interacts differently? 

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@dark_reef   even if you bolted them down, something else I've noticed...  

We notice the gear drops down into the ground and then gets thrust up.  What also occurs is, sometimes the bounce up appears to be not as bad for some reason.  What actually happens in those cases, is the landing gear actually gets thrust up into the craft and becomes permanently assigned to a new position as if the craft had incurred a particularly rough landing and damaged it's gear.  So basically as you play, and your craft bounces around...  it is also randomly taking damage that compounds over time.

I've noticed that at the KSC on the tarmac, I can retract the offending gear on some craft and let them sit on the ground and it does seem to avoid the issue.  On low-G planets I've tried similar tactics with other craft and the results were unfortunately catastrophic.

As the 1.3.1 update did absolutely nothing for me but introduce problems...  My best course of action (and recommendation for others) is to rollback to 1.3.0 until the next update comes out and hopefully fixes it.

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So far the Landing Stabilizer legs seem to be working. I was able to land on IOTA, "Toggle Ground Tether" and time warp until all tanks were full. You can see the craft try to jump when coming out of warp but is suppressed by the ground tether. Not sure exactly what the ground tether is doing but it seems to work at least for now. I also noticed that they do not retract with G so they are not considered gear and are not treated the same by the physics engine???

Is it possible to make a mod for all gear to have a "ground tether option"?

46 minutes ago, XLjedi said:

On low-G planets I've tried similar tactics with other craft and the results were unfortunately catastrophic.

I noticed that as well. On low g planets the gear would usually just explode instead of bouncing.

Edited by dark_reef

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59 minutes ago, XLjedi said:

My best course of action (and recommendation for others) is to rollback to 1.3.0 until the next update comes out and hopefully fixes it.

I only started playing recently so I am stuck on 1.3.1 unless there is a way to move a save back to 1.3.0.

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52 minutes ago, dark_reef said:

I only started playing recently so I am stuck on 1.3.1 unless there is a way to move a save back to 1.3.0.

Yeah, not much you can do there... except hope they fix it soon, and avoid the offending parts.

For now, maybe just focus on craft design and tinkering around in sandbox mode until we get a stable version to advance career mode saved games.  Maybe even participate in a challenge or two? 

Would be nice to get an update on this here... but I guess I'll have to go open an account on their bug tracker system to see what (if anything) is being acknowledged and worked on.

 

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I did some testing and the landing stabilizers seem to work after they are "tethered " to the ground. So I restored an older save and will redo some of the big lander with a design that uses the stabilizers instead of landing legs and see how it goes.

From the sounds of it the problem can come and go but for me has always been (at least on low grav worlds).

I am still learning how everything works so I have already restarted a few times but I will see if I can keep this career going.

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I am finding that being on a completely flat surface is EXTREMELY important. If you are not a a flat surface facing straight up do not save, do not time warp, and do not change focus back to the space center or a ship out of viewing range. If you need to save just bump into the air before saving or find a large flat area. I am building a base right now on Iota and I found a large completely flat area that has ore so we will see how it goes.

Edited by dark_reef

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One trick I've used with refueling to manage the Ker-bounce damage is...

As mentioned previously, when you come out of accel time the craft does not always appear to bounce as much, but only because the gear got jammed up into the hull and absorbed the bounce with damage.  For me it seems to happen most often coming out of accel time after refueling.  I have noticed there is less chance for gear damage if coming out of a save, as opposed to accel time.  Sooooo...  if you accel time to refuel, just make sure to do a save AFTER you harvest the fuel, but BEFORE you come out of accel time!  Then to exit accel time, just press ESC and load the save.  You get your fuel, and the Ker-bounce is less likely to damage your gear.

 

 

 

 

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