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hi i was wondering if anyone had suggestions for making a space station i have an idea for one and how to create it. it is of a modular design so id send up components into orbit and reassemble them there. since it is a modular design the rcs would not be usable in the modular state since there would be no control over the segments. I'd use a "tug" to maneuver the pieces into place using reaction wheels, rcs and monopropellent engines. the station would be a refueling station/port. is there a better way to do this or will this work?

Edited by Drewsey2573
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Unless you have a computer capable of handling massive rockets, this is really the only way to build a space station.

Remember, that when you have two ships (like a tug and station component) docked together, the game treats them as one single ship.  So if you have a tug with an RCS tank and RCS thrusters docked to a station component with just RCS thrusters, the tug will use the thrusters on the component, because it's one ship.

 Since I've got a pretty decent computer, I've sent stations up in kits, and assembled the whole thing with one or two launches using a tug / orbiter.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/27292-what-did-you-do-in-ksp-today/&page=1460&tab=comments#comment-3170031

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2 hours ago, Drewsey2573 said:

hi i was wondering if anyone had suggestions for making a space station i have an idea for one and how to create it. it is of a modular design so id send up components into orbit and reassemble them there. since it is a modular design the rcs would not be usable in the modular state since there would be no control over the segments. I'd use a "tug" to maneuver the pieces into place using reaction wheels, rcs and monopropellent engines. the station would be a refueling station/port. is there a better way to do this or will this work?

That sounds like a good plan. With regards to RCS - designing a tug/component system to be balanced for RCS makes docking a lot easier. Two options are to design your components' RCS layout to work with the tug AND after assembly. The other option is to add some temporary RCS ports on the component and use KAS/KIS to send a Kerbal out and remove the temporary thrusters - this is kind of fun because it gives me a chance to use kerbals in part of the process - much like real-life.

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I find the "orbital fork-truck" method the most fun, making the modular pieces just dead segments that need to be grabbed and moved into place via an RCS tug.

Is this the most efficient or practical way to do it? Prolly not, but I find it to be the most interesting and therefore the most enjoyable.

KSP I find; is often a struggle between the Engineer in me who want's to make everything perfect and simple vs the Player in me who want's it to be complicated and engaging. Try to find a balance somewhere between the two.

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Back in the days, I had rather big 'Station-Builders' that would grab modules and put them in place. Here's a snapshot of one of those from an old save

q6a5wuH.png

This made it possible to have modules without RCS thrusters or any such stuff on them

These days though, I tend to go the simpler route by just equipping the module with RCS, and using the final stage - also RCS equipped - to manouver the module in place. When done, deorbit the final stage, and have a resident engineer on the station EVA and remove the modules RCS thrusters.

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On 10/16/2017 at 9:19 AM, Drewsey2573 said:

hi i was wondering if anyone had suggestions for making a space station 

The main things are:

#1:  Don't just build a station to be doing it, or it will just be a waste of time and money.  Have some sort of big plan in which the station is a necessary component.  Not all big plans need a station.

#2.  For the most part, stations are only infrastructure supporting the actual mission.  The main exceptions are A) if you're writing a fan fiction story set on the station, and B) it's just an orbital science farm.  For the 1st of those, ignore everything I'm saying here.  For the second, realize that the utility of science stations, even when using mods specifically for that purpose, is usually limited to the 1st part of a career game.  If you're not doing either of those, then keep the station as simple as possible, so it doesn't take time away from doing the actual mission that it's supposed to be supporting.

#3.  Keep the parts to a minimum.  It's VERY easy to go overboard when building stations, hanging all sorts of geegaws on them for looks.  And it gets worse with modular stations, where you need docking ports, plus solar panels, antennae, batteries, probe cores, and RCS tanks and thrusters on each module you add,  Alternatively, you can use a tug to move the modules around but that gets tedious and time-consuming pretty fast (doubles the number of rendezvoux and docking needed).

The most common supporting role for a station is simply to be a transshipment point for fuel or other resources.  The resources are mined/processed on the surface and brought up to the station on a dedicated lander/shuttle, and space-going ships come to the station to tank up.  This sort of station consists solely of a few tanks for the resources and a couple of docking ports.  It really doesn't need any probe core or power, although it will probably have them just to get where you want it.  It certainly needs no crew facilities.  The tanks don't have to be very big, just enough to hold whatever the lander/shuttle can carry in 1 go.  And the whole thing can be sent out in 1 piece on a single launch.  No on-site construction needed.  Such a station isn't very glorious or interesting, but it's useful, practical, and doesn't get in the way of doing the actual mission.

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On 10/16/2017 at 12:16 PM, Nicias said:

I put rcs pods on decouplers so I can chuck them after I've docked the module.

Certainly you can do that... though it can be useful to have RCS thrusters distributed around the station so that you have the option of using RCS to help with rotating it.  Reaction wheels can bog down trying to rotate a big station as it grows, since the moment of inertia grows nonlinearly as the station expands.

13 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

#3.  Keep the parts to a minimum.  It's VERY easy to go overboard when building stations, hanging all sorts of geegaws on them for looks.  And it gets worse with modular stations, where you need docking ports, plus solar panels, antennae, batteries, probe cores, and RCS tanks and thrusters on each module you add

^ This.

Main thing to bear in mind when building a station is to make sure that you know why you're building it.  There are a lot of possible reasons, either practical or for role-play.  Make sure you're taking a design/construction approach that's suited to your priorities.

For example, one practical reason to want an orbiting station is as a fuel depot.  If that's all you need... then just use the biggest tanks you can get (to keep the part count down), and dock modules that are basically just a fuel tank and some docking ports, where possible.

(For my own cases where I need to build a fuel depot like this, one mod I love to use is SpaceY.  It has big parts, going up to 5m, including a monster LFO tank that holds hundreds of tons.  So I can build an orbiting fuel depot that's basically just one giant fuel tank and a few bits of paraphernalia such as docking ports and the like.  Super low part count, FPS just blazes along.)  :)

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Another thing to consider is what your delivery method is. Early on in the game I usually just use my uppermost stage as the tug, balancing the RCS ports around it and the module being mostly dry. Once in place, if your final stage is cheap you can ditch it, or you can carefully land it near KSC for recovery. Later when you've earned those fancy late-tech-tree engines and get your piloting skills up you can use an SSTO to deliver modules and recover everything. 

Keep in mind if for whatever reason you become detached from a module with no control it can be a real pain to chase it down and recapture it. This doesn't mean every module needs reaction wheels and a probe core, just that you always want them connected to something that does.

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i got the main core up and in a good orbit. and i have the next piece up aswell and the tug is in a somewhat close orbit but they are not close to eachother in their respective orbits. the segment of the station has very poor controlability its enough to make orbit corrections but thats about it. any suggestions for grabbing it with the tug?

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there is no right or wrong way to build a station in KSP. all you need is to put it in orbit and have plenty of docking ports available for future modules and/or expansion(s).

But I will point out, if you keep your modules low-mass, you shouldn't have any trouble getting them up there.

also, building a station is a great way to get some orbital rendezvous practice and docking practice. one day, you'll have it down so well, you'll be able to do it without RCS thrusters or monopropellant.

Edited by Xyphos
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21 hours ago, Drewsey2573 said:

i got the main core up and in a good orbit. and i have the next piece up aswell and the tug is in a somewhat close orbit but they are not close to eachother in their respective orbits. the segment of the station has very poor controlability its enough to make orbit corrections but thats about it. any suggestions for grabbing it with the tug?

How much docking have you done? Do you have screenshots of the orbits and craft? Its usually a matter of getting them in the same plane (adjustment burns at the ascending or descending node), and then adjusting your altitude to slide forward or backward relative to the target. It takes some practice but you'll be trying to get the two orange arrows as close together as possible (down to 100m if you can) and then using RCS to more precisely guide the docking ports together. Youtube has some great tutorials.

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1 hour ago, Geonovast said:

How are you translating without RCS?  Legit curious, RCS is vital for all my docking.

For translating is RCS indeed always needed. I think he meant rotation :)

Unless he would do everything with the main engine, but yeah.. That costs much more effort than with the rcs.

Edited by DrLicor
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On 20/10/2017 at 12:05 PM, Geonovast said:

How are you translating without RCS?  Legit curious, RCS is vital for all my docking.

For small stuff is pretty easy to just point the main engine in the desired direction and burn briefly (weak engines, thrust limit and low throttle for precision). 

As the scale increases it soon became unbearable.

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I usually make modular stations, so I start small and build as needed. I actually often use my 300km station to do more contracts in one mission. I also operate my stations like ds9 as in no specific purpose, with lots of resources and such. Usually I have a permanent rocket docked there(also repairs are easy because of kis) used for rescue missions. I keep the rescued kerbals up there until I have another reason to send a rocket to there so I just transport them down. It saves a lot of time, fuel, money, and boredom.

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On 10/20/2017 at 10:05 AM, Geonovast said:

How are you translating without RCS?  Legit curious, RCS is vital for all my docking.

  1. main engines push vessel prograde
  2. mount docking port on side of vessel <-- very important (if you're using the Mk2 shielded docking port, then it's already "sideways")
  3. reduce engine thrust limiter below 5 and above 0. (strongly recommended, this will help you gently guide your vessel better.)
  4. find your desired docking port and "set as target"
  5. burn towards your target, 1 m/s is good enough velocity, you don't want to go too fast, patience is key here.
  6. control your vessel from the side-mounted docking port, but only after step 5. if you do this before step 5, you're not likely to succeed.
  7. orient your vessel so the docking port faces your target, SAS can automatically do this for you, but remember to turn it off afterwards. (SAS targeting is buggy)
  8. now simply roll your vessel with Q or E and execute minor translation burns with the main engine as needed.
    HINT: if you burn in the wrong direction, just roll 180 degrees and try again.
    PRO-TIP:  if you keep the navball prograde marker centered with the navball target marker, you're sure to hit the docking port, guaranteed. no mods required.
  9. use the docking port's magnetic properties to dock, they'll kiss each other if you follow steps 7 and 8 correctly.
  10. don't forget to reset your engine's thrust limiter after docking!
  11. don't forget to control your vessel from the command pod or probe core after undocking!

 

if you want to watch how I do it, please watch my video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDipQ0OIT9M&t=8m15s

 

Edited by Xyphos
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Here's how I usually handle stations (around Kerbin, anyway):

1. I use a reusable SSTO rocket that can put about 20T in a 200km orbit (my stations are usually at around 130km), and return via parachute (because it's quick and easy, and I'm lazy).

2. I start with a core module that's basically all 2.5m docking ports and reaction wheels.

3. Send up modules for habitation, power generation, and fuel storage to get things started.

4. Anything else is added on an as-needed basis.

5. I like to pre-place KAS strut endpoints in the VAB in case i need them later for stability. They can be removed later to reduce part count if you don't use them.

I use one of the aforementioned "orbital fork trucks" to move modules around in orbit (basically probe core and fuel, main engine, and two long spars that fit around the 2.5m modules with RCS at the ends). All station modules are designed to fit within the limits of the launcher and orbital tug.

I usually keep a small utility craft docked to it with KIS containers full of small solar panels, antennas, science gear, etc. that can get to the Mun and Minmus and back for fixing design errors and rescuing Kerbals.

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