Mun Travel

[Andrey.gr]

Hello guys! I'm very new to base building. And Now I'm deploying my first Mun Base. The main reason for the base was to visit all biomes and then transfer result back to Kerbin. And I was thinking that I will build rover to visit biomes and collect surface samples, but after  of couple days of testing and building rover, I came up that it is not good idea to travel large distances on rover. On Kerbin it's ok to build aircraft, but on Mun... So could you please suggest of such kind of vehicle? Lightweight rocket or something similar? and roughly what deltas I will need to perform such task?

[ZooNamedGames]

Could hop from destination to destination. You’ll likely want a refinery for that.

[Magzimum]

If you decide to drive around,  you should definitely make screenshots and post them in the Elcano challenge (although it would appear that the challenge is currently not moderated/maintained). Driving around will however take a LONG time (think: days of playing time) and a good rover, because crashes are almost inevitable.

Visiting all the biomes with a single ship by flying around will require a LOT of dV. For a single suborbital flight on the Mun (so from one biome to the next), you probably will need around 500-800 m/s worth of dV, and there are 17 biomes I believe... But you could at least visit two or three of them on a single mission. Just make a good lander (wide base), and add enough drop tanks.

If your hopper can process ore into fuel, it could continue hopping around indefinitely... but that technology is available quite late in the career, and it's probably not available if you haven't been to the Mun yet in the career game.

[The Aziz]

Rovers are useful on short distances when you have KAS installed. Say, for purposes like resource transfer, eg. Between supply vessel and your base.

For longer journeys though...

I decided to change the position of my Duna rover, from midlands to *near* canyon. Which was 250km away. Doing ~12m/s on x3 physwarp. Just do the math.

Edited October 20, 2017 by The Aziz

[Scarecrow]

In a previous version of KSP, where I had built numerous bases on Mun, each with refuelling capability, I built a hopper which I guess operated in a similar fashion to the Eagle craft from the TV series Space 1999.  The craft was fitted with rover wheels for travelling short distances, but also had small rocket motors to give it vertical lift and forward thrust which allowed it to travel over much longer distances.

[Geonovast]

9 minutes ago, Scarecrow said:

In a previous version of KSP, where I had built numerous bases on Mun, each with refuelling capability, I built a hopper which I guess operated in a similar fashion to the Eagle craft from the TV series Space 1999.  The craft was fitted with rover wheels for travelling short distances, but also had small rocket motors to give it vertical lift and forward thrust which allowed it to travel over much longer distances.

I never watched Space 1999, but I recently built a fleet of these for Dres.  They're likely less efficient on the Mun.  Slightly modded with built in (terrible) ISRU, but you could probably get a couple hops out of them.  Like from the Munar surface ISRU port, to biome, then back to ISRU port.  IIRC these have about 1500 dV when full.  Wouldn't be difficult to built a stock version.

Uses RCS and a reaction wheel to tip up for launch (or a ramp).

 

[something]

If you plan to visit all biomes with something else than electric power, you'll need ISRU equipment on the Mun. You could build a base that processes fuel and hop forth and back to base to fill up again. Or you could carry your ISRU equipment with your vessel, which might become problematic due to Ore distribution.

Depending on how complex you want to make the entire enterprise, you could build an orbital base as well which serves as a hub and fuel storage for crew rotation and whatever.

[NSEP]

I suggest making science hoppers, lander vehicles that hop from destination to destination on a planet, usually with a laboratory. A simple one without ISRU or a return vehicle might need some refuels and a rescue mission. Or you can abandon them/turn them into a permanent base once you are finished.

[KerikBalm]

Either use an ISRU lander, or a tiny lander and an orbital fuel depot to refuel the lander.

Trying to do it without ISRU or rendevous in orbit requires way too much dV. With an orbital fuel depot you save a lot of fuel since your burns only move a fraction of the total fuel mass (most fuel mass stays in orbit).

However, short hops on the surface are good. If you can land at the intersection of 3 biomes, then 2 small hops can get you three biomes before rocketing back up to your fuel depot. 1 orange tank for a small lander should be enough.

[Andrey.gr]

Thanks to all of you guys for sharing your ideas!
I read all the posts and slightly change my plan, I will build ISRU surface base and test all related things on Mun(due to shortest launch windows) before going to everywhere else. But for now to boost my science I will collect surface samples from biomes using space lab on Mun orbit, and send manned/unmanned landers( with rover to collect data in nearby biomes) from orbit to collect experiments. But all this related science staff is not so clear to me, question is what I will need on orbit ship to collect all the surface samples? If I put MPL on orbit station and SC-9001 on Lander, will I able to push all the data from SC-9001 to MPL (especially surface probes)? or anyway I will need EVA to perform such task?  When transferring MPL back to Kerbin (for the extra science points)  using orbiter,  should I use cargo bay, or can use second MPL on orbiter to transfer from MPL to MPL?

Edited October 20, 2017 by Andrey.gr

[Geonovast]

22 minutes ago, Andrey.gr said:

Thanks to all of you guys for sharing your ideas!
I read all the posts and slightly change my plan, I will build ISRU surface base and test all related things on Mun(due to shortest launch windows) before going to everywhere else. But for now to boost my science I will collect surface samples from biomes using space lab on Mun orbit, and send manned/unmanned landers( with rover to collect data in nearby biomes) from orbit to collect experiments. But all this related science staff is not so clear to me, question is what I will need on orbit ship to collect all the surface samples? If I put MPL on orbit station and SC-9001 on Lander, will I able to push all the data from SC-9001 to MPL (especially surface probes)? or anyway I will need EVA to perform such task?  When transferring MPL back to Kerbin (for the extra science points)  using orbiter,  should I use cargo bay, or can use second MPL on orbiter to transfer from MPL to MPL?

I haven't played much career, but, AFAIK, you can sent the SC-9001 to dock with the MPL, transfer the data to the MPL, reset the SC-9001 with a scientist who's in the MPL, then send the SC-9001 back to the surface.  Crunch the data in the MPL and transmit it back to Kerbin.  You shouldn't have to send the lab back to Kerbin.

[juvilado]

12 hours ago, Andrey.gr said:

Hello guys! I'm very new to base building. And Now I'm deploying my first Mun Base. The main reason for the base was to visit all biomes and then transfer result back to Kerbin. And I was thinking that I will build rover to visit biomes and collect surface samples, but after  of couple days of testing and building rover, I came up that it is not good idea to travel large distances on rover. On Kerbin it's ok to build aircraft, but on Mun... So could you please suggest of such kind of vehicle? Lightweight rocket or something similar? and roughly what deltas I will need to perform such task?

I have been playing this game (i dont current play it anymore, the burnout) for ages, and if you can, take my advice:

I found much more time efficient to design a vessel that can orbit all biomes, the another that can land in a biome, then jump to another (a cople times could be better) and then return all science to kerbin. Repeat until full explored. I aimed to the limist between towo or even three biomes in order to make things easier. 

That worked well for me for Mun and Minmus specifically.

In my experience, rovers for instance are terribly boring and time wasting in KSP.

But that's just my humble oppinion. The magic of thus game is each one can play his way, aim for his own goals, and have fun the way he wants.

Good luck in your journeys to outter space!

[katateochi]

On 20/10/2017 at 5:38 PM, KerikBalm said:

or a tiny lander and an orbital fuel depot to refuel the lander.

That was the way did it last time I did an All-Mun-Sci in-one-go mission. Orbital depot with a science lab and a small lander capable of landing and returning to orbit.

That was a few KSP versions ago, but the basic process would be the same, here's a vid:

EDIT

I think it's a pity that tearing across the Mun (or anywhere) at silly speeds in a krazy rover isn't really that feasible.  The idea of doing that is very appealing, but when it comes down to it it's just not practical. It's slow going, or if you use rocket propulsion then terrain-seam induced explody death is highly likely. Orbital hops are way more reliable (just a bit repetitive after a few biomes, but you'll get good rendezvous and docking practice!). 

Edited October 22, 2017 by katateochi

[KerikBalm]

All this stuff about the MPL makes me wonder if he thinks it is using the old mechanics. No MPL is needed to collect all the samples from mun... 1 scientist can reset the goo and mat bay. The command pod can store 1 of each sample/experiment from *each situation* of *each biome*. If you want 2 of each, its easier to take a sample container. The benefit of taking additional samples is very low.

The MPL is good for making science over time when staffed with high rank scientists. If you don't want to time warp for science, don't use it. Also, for its primary use of making science over time, there is no need, ever, to return it. You could return it for funds, or if you have extra copies of experiments that the lab has already processed.

[Deddly]

Since it's a gameplay question (a good one!) I moved the thread to Gameplay Questions