KSP Weekly: The Neutron Star Merger

[Jim DiGriz]

 

1 hour ago, passinglurker said:

Sigh yet another code base overhaul... It amazes me to no end how squad has the resources to completely rewrite the game every major update yet they can't spare resources for comprehensive art and career mode game play polish.

If the game wasn't getting updated for the underlying Unity engine then I would suspect that would indicate lack of any interest in updating the core game at all and that no updates for anything would be forthcoming.

Keeping the underlying game engine current is always a healthy sign.

[Nertea]

17 minutes ago, DMagic said:

Do the Part Tools not support the new (not new at all ) Particle Systems components? That's horrible if you still have to use those clunky old Particle Emitter / Animator / Renderer components.

Yup. We've been stuck with the horrific legacy system for a while. This is partly because serializing Shuriken was pretty crappy until recently, but there's no longer any excuse. 

Anyways, looking forward to the 2017 update, even if 90% of the interesting bits are unlikely to be included. 

 

[Redneck]

1 hour ago, JPLRepo said:

Code base updates are required in order to keep the game on a supported platform. As the game engine is upgraded, so must the game move to these upgrades.
Failing to do so means the game will be on an unsupported platform. Which is hard to maintain and update. and... as others have suggested, upgrading brings lots of new and improved features that can be exploited, and not to forget bug fixes in the core platform (Unity).

Just lie to me and tell me we are getting multiplayer down the road. I would buy the game all over again...just ...just...lie to me

Edited October 20, 2017 by Redneck

[Kerbart]

3 hours ago, Just Jim said:

1.4???  

You know... the one with multi-player, new planets and n-body physics...

[juanml82]

2 hours ago, NoMrBond said:

[Edit] Maybe this will also be the point where KSP's assets are moved into assetBundles to take advantage of dynamic loading/unloading?

Please! I'm running out of 12GB of RAM at this point

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

And of course, the engine update probably has nothing to do with the art - programmers and artists are generally separate people, after all. You can't tell your programmers to make art and expect good results, and vice versa. So even if Squad were to focus on the game's art, this update would still likely happen since the programmers need stuff to do!

Right, but from a business standpoint, programmers and artists are both salaries. Now, I'm not saying Squad should fire programmers to hire artists... but that's exactly what I'm saying.

In any case, they do have artists hired - they are doing the expansion parts. I understand that has priority, since it's a paid DLC rather than bonus content for people who has already purchased the product, but once they are done, they could make an art pass on the existing stock parts.

[passinglurker]

2 hours ago, Deddly said:

Sorry if I misrepresented you. I have only seen you post about the art quality. But of course, most of us appreciate quality in all areas of the game.

I mention art quality because that is all there is to talk about. The code base is already stable, the game balance likely only getting changed in the midst of an art overhaul anyway. Art consistency is the most standout element in which ksp is lacking. Take that as a compliment to rest of the game if you want.

So just to be clear on our terminology...

Prioritizes graphics = the insatiable push for greater and greater fidelity, effects, and possibly frame rate.

Prioritzes consistency = the desire for the rest to be as good as the best we already have. To draw a line and polish off everything up to that line in a clean and tidy package.

So yes "most people" including me (to the extent that we have any right to sayi prefer to avoid presuming I speak for others) want quality in all aspects. For me that means we need to bring the elements lagging behind up to the same level of polish as everything else. This by no way means I want consistent art at the expense of the stable, feature rich, and modifiable code base we already have.

[klgraham1013]

I'm actually kind of shocked we're getting a 1.4.  Find it odd they're upgrading the engine, despite reasonable explanations already being said.  I'd imagine plenty of games, if not all, have nailed all that down before starting work on DLC.  Oh well.  The development of KSP has always defied the norms.

Also, considering the development time investment to possible profits, it is surprising.  A graphical overhaul would probably bring in far more new buyers than a new engine.  One is easily advertised, the other, not so much.  Though, as said, programmers can't really be asked to do the art anyway.

Edited October 20, 2017 by klgraham1013

[John FX]

On 20/10/2017 at 9:00 PM, SQUAD said:

Finally, the team started to work on upgrading the project to Unity 2017.1. This implementation will be included in the upcoming 1.4 Update of KSP.

Rather interesting news to just drop, like it was nothing. Interesting density of info in those two sentences.

EDIT :

On 20/10/2017 at 9:47 PM, passinglurker said:

Sigh yet another code base overhaul

They only did it to bore you

Edited October 24, 2017 by John FX
into->info

[Redneck]

45 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Though, as said, programmers can't really be asked to do the art anyway.

shoutout

@Roverdude can do both just saying.

/shoutout

Edited October 21, 2017 by Redneck

[JPLRepo]

14 minutes ago, Redneck said:

shoutout

@Roverdude can do both just saying.

/shoutout

As can a lot of Game developers. But usually they like to focus on one discipline. As is generally the case in pretty much any profession.

[klgraham1013]

19 minutes ago, Redneck said:

shoutout

@Roverdude can do both just saying.

/shoutout

Everyone knows RoverDude is beyond us mere mortals.

[shdwlrd]

5 hours ago, SQUAD said:

One of the developers has been playing around with the Orbit Gizmo in the Mission Builder and this clip showcases the same orbit for 6 asteroids generated an hour apart from each other (take into account that Kerbin has 6-hour-days). This is just an example of the crazy things you’ll be able to do with this tool.

An easier way to do symmetry art in KSP.

48 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Everyone knows RoverDude is beyond us mere mortals.

I will have to say he's more experienced than most. But beyond, naa.

Edited October 21, 2017 by shdwlrd

[Redneck]

1 hour ago, JPLRepo said:

As can a lot of Game developers. But usually they like to focus on one discipline. As is generally the case in pretty much any profession.

Was just givin roverdude a lil jab. (little inside twitch humor). Hey JPL you didnt respond to my previous post......

Edited October 21, 2017 by Redneck

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

3 hours ago, John FX said:

Rather interesting news to just drop, like it was nothing. Interesting density of into in those two sentences.

I was thinking the same thing. There was so much info in this weekly that it was hard to take it all in at once, but that section jumped out immediately. It was a bit like a knock upside the head to get your attention. Kinda tough to miss. I don't know anything about the technical details guys have been talking about (I'll take their word for it), I'm just glad the game will continue on. Looks like the "KSP development is dead" crowd that always seems to be around will have to sit on their hands through at least one more update. No matter what actual changes this represents, I see it all as great news.

[Mako]

I gotta say I wasn't expecting an engine update. I figured 1.4 was coming, but I epected it to just be the update to the base game code to allow the Making History Expansion to function. At most I figured it would include some bug fixes and possibly the remaining localization work.

It's nice to hear that KSP is still keeping up with new versions of Unity. Hopefully that will offer some performance improvements and bug fixes. As for the rest of the bells and whistles, while more new graphics options may be possible with this engine update, they all require work to implement and are not just automatically available.
I'd be surprised if we saw much implementation of new shaders and particle effects... unless Squad does intend to revisit the art assets in a major way. It's a lot of work, but anything is possible.

I do wonder what this means for the console versions. Are they still only targeting Unity 5 and an older version of KSP or are they targeting the new Unity and KSP 1.4? When Blitworks has a version to submit for certification, will that version be capable of supporting the Making History Expansion?

[severedsolo]

1 hour ago, Mako said:

I do wonder what this means for the console versions. Are they still only targeting Unity 5 and an older version of KSP or are they targeting the new Unity and KSP 1.4? When Blitworks has a version to submit for certification, will that version be capable of supporting the Making History Expansion?

I would assume it's going to be Unity 5 as they have already confirmed that the console version is 1.2.2 here:

Considering the console update is in QA, I can't see they are going to roll everything back for an as-yet barely started update to the PC version. I can see the uproar now.

[rudi1291]

Yay for engine update. I am really looking forward to that one. Thats big news, even if its likely we get it NET 2018...

[Azimech]

Terrific news!

I wonder if there are any improvements in the joints system between the current and the upcoming Unity version. Scanning the 2017.1 list I couldn't see them (except 2D). In particular I'd love some user-end configurability in the SoftJointLimit.

Furthermore I'm excited with this new feature:

Quote

Particles: Particles can now apply forces to the Colliders they hit

Which I interpret as a tiny step into the right direction, who knows 5 years from now we might have a native fluid dynamics system.
 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Azimech

[Bottle Rocketeer 500]

15 hours ago, SQUAD said:

The art team is currently busy working on the geometry and texture of a new liquid-fuel cryogenic rocket engine, specially designed for large vessels and inspired on NASA’s J2 Engine, which you probably know from the Saturn V and Saturn IB rockets. It is still early for sneak peeks, but we’ll show it to you soon. The team is also working on new textures and configurations for the 1.875m and the 5m fairings.

 

Finally, the team started to work on upgrading the project to Unity 2017.1. This implementation will be included in the upcoming 1.4 Update of KSP.

 

Yay and yay!

[Mako]

8 hours ago, severedsolo said:

I would assume it's going to be Unity 5 as they have already confirmed that the console version is 1.2.2.

Considering the console update is in QA, I can't see they are going to roll everything back for an as-yet barely started update to the PC version. I can see the uproar now.

I suspect as much as well. I agree it would be ideal to get something out sooner rather than later, but I also wonder if there's any intention of updating past 1.2.2. (Thank you for reminding me of the target version number.) Since 1.3(.1) is on the same version of Unity as 1.2.2, I wouldn't be surprised to find that they're now targeting 1.3(.1). It would make sense and it would mean a lot less work to bring consoles to 1.4, if they ever intend to.

Edit: But who knows, maybe the UI overhaul of 1.3 would be time consuming to do on consoles. I really don't have any idea how difficult that aspect of development is.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Mako

[Raphaello]

On 20.10.2017 at 10:00 PM, SQUAD said:

Finally, the team started to work on upgrading the project to Unity 2017.1. This implementation will be included in the upcoming 1.4 Update of KSP.

Love this little bomb thrown out of nowhere... did not see it coming. This is the best part of the weekly as it demonstrates that there is further investment planned into KSP.

Does this also mean we might get multithreaded or GPU assisted physics in 1.4 or in a future release/mod?

[Bottle Rocketeer 500]

@Shadowmage I'm looking forward to your PBR shaders!

[Benjamin Kerman]

On 10/20/2017 at 1:00 PM, SQUAD said:

Finally, the team started to work on upgrading the project to Unity 2017.1. This implementation will be included in the upcoming 1.4 Update of KSP.

H Y P E

[Wallygator]

On 20/10/2017 at 9:40 PM, Deddly said:

I really love the astronomy news in these weeklies. It's always a highlight for me.

If the astronomy news becomes more interesting than the development news, then we can start to worry.

I find myself more interested in the Unity upgrade than the "Making History" module - I wonder if I'm the only person who thinks this.

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Wallygator

[Nightfury]

On 20.10.2017 at 10:53 PM, MrChumley said:

Unity 2017.1.0f3 Release Notes

Added:

Custom vertex streams:

You could make some really nice, new Re-entry effects with this

(Or, put together with some realism-mods, some solar flares [problably very hard to make])