A question about this subforum's format.

[Vanamonde]

It may be possible to convert this subforum from its current question-and-answers-ranked-by-vote format to the normal replies-listed-by-submission-date format the rest of the forum uses. If so, would you like us to do this? Would you still want us to try this if there is a risk that the conversion might cause problems and lose some posts and/or threads? 

[Cadet_BNSF]

I would appreciate that. Another option could be that you keep the current format, but make it chronological only and keep the answered button.

[Yakuzi]

I voted 'change to chronological', but I would still like the option to sort by votes. The default should be 'sort by date' however IMO.

[Vanamonde]

Unfortunately, guys, it's all or nothing. Chronological format does not have the vote or best answer buttons. 

[Chel]

Could you please explain what the 'chronological' and the 'question/answer' formats are?

[HebaruSan]

3 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Could you please explain what the 'chronological' and the 'question/answer' formats are?

To the left of replies on this thread are big up triangles with numbers under them. If someone clicks the triangle, the number increments and the post floats upwards in the sort order (so if you reply to another post, that post might be shown under your post). It's supposed to mimic Stack Exchange somewhat.

I haven't seen a case where it offered an advantage that outweighed the added confusion it causes.

[Deddly]

Yeah, if it defaulted to "Sort by Date" (which we otherwise have to manually click on, and many people miss that) that would be ideal.

[nobodyhasthis2]

This is not choice between two functions. It is a vote to remove one function. People are being asked if they want the forum choices removed.

We currently have two methods. If you just want to have a question answered. A voting forum does that quickley. Putting wrong or irrelevant answers in chronological order does not help anyone. New players would have to read through all the stupid advice to get to the correct answer. Why do we need to read the whole thread just to get one post. When we are asking the community to provide the single best post?

Anyone who wants a conversion in chronological format can simply start a new thread that does that job. Best of both worlds.

5 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

 Would you still want us to try this if there is a risk that the conversion might cause problems and lose some posts and/or threads? 

Would you like to do this if there was a risk that it can create extra work for moderators?

At least with simple Q&A sub forums we can self regulate through voting. The very fact that people are saying "I want chronological order with voting" is a reason to upvote your point about that fact they can't have this as a change. Simply because that is how things already work right now.

Either we have the current system

or

Remove it completely. Dumb things down to one forum choice. Then possibly create extra work for moderators. There is no halfway house here.

Edited October 28, 2017 by nobodyhasthis2

[Geonovast]

I'm all for the conventional format.  Ordering posts out of chronological order is one of the most annoying things any websites do, especially social media ones.  I can't tell you how many times I've gone to a post in this subforum, and the "first" reply starts out with "As stated above."

I know I can switch it to chronological, but the fact that it has to be done every time is a bit irritating.  So I guess I'd be fine with the current format if you can let us set "Sort By Date" as default.

[Spricigo]

10 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

Unfortunately, guys, it's all or nothing. Chronological format does not have the vote or best answer buttons. 

So I want the [DON'T DARE TO TOUCH IT] options. (Yes, shouting.)

We currently have too formats, what's missing is the option to choose wich one display by default. Upvotes may even be useful in other subforums (challenges, spacecraft exchange).

Well, if a choice need to be made so be it, but I'm not happy with any of the possible outcomes.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

I always sort by date. I would like to know who said what and when they said it. If someone else already said what I'm going to say, I'd like to know it (so I don't look like an idiot any more often than necessary). If I want to expand on the point, I'll give the person credit for mentioning it first, then add my 2 cents. For instance, I agree with @Geonovast; as long as the ability to sort by date isn't removed, I don't really care.

And as far as the "best answer" thing goes, I don't think most players know it exists; or care about it if they do. If you like an answer, you "like" it. And oftentimes, an OP will ask a question and is never heard from again. The thread then becomes a discussion amongst ourselves about one point or another. At that point, no one would want things ordered by "best answer".

What I would really like to address about this forum is why it's the only one on here (at least AFAIK), that doesn't let you jump to a specific page. If a discussion goes beyond one page (and they certainly can), you're not able to jump to the page you want to see. It doesn't make much sense since the other subforums allow you to. At least imo.

[steve_v]

So long as this confusing and unnecessary non-chronological  sorting thing isn't the default, I don't care. Same goes for all the other subforums.
If removing the voting altogether is the only way to make this happen (as ridiculous as that is), so be it.
If doing either has the potential to mess things up, again, so be it. Sorting by votes by default is just plain annoying, please make it go away.

Edited October 28, 2017 by steve_v

[Yakuzi]

12 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

Unfortunately, guys, it's all or nothing. Chronological format does not have the vote or best answer buttons. 

Then I'd like to keep it the way it is, so change one of 'convert' votes to a 'keep current format' vote please. Just set the default to 'sort by date' and we're golden.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Yakuzi

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

Jumped back on here to check my notification and read new responses, and I got confused for a minute. Because, of course, the thread had reverted to "best answer". Can I vote "yes" again?

[HebaruSan]

There's one relevant factor that's not improved by "just make the default sort chronological":

This line appears between already-read posts and unread posts in a normal thread. On these question-answer threads, it's missing in action, regardless of sort. It feels like adding insult to injury to open a background tab and not have any indication of what changed since the last time you saw that post.

[Vanamonde]

Unfortunately, the last time we checked, the forum software does not offer the option to set 'sort by date' as the default. We can check again, but I don't believe it has changed. 

Quote

Anyone who wants a conversion in chronological format can simply start a new thread that does that job. Best of both worlds. 

That is not an option. 

Quote

Would you like to do this if there was a risk that it can create extra work for moderators? 

I'm sorry, I don't know what you're trying to say here. Neither format makes a difference as far as forum moderation is concerned. We are asking because there has been feedback to the effect that people do not like the Q&A format. We'd like to know how that breaks down as to the numbers on both sides of the question, which is the purpose of this poll. 

@The_Cat_In_Space, most threads on this forum display the posts in the order that they were submitted, which is chronological order. But this subforum's Q&A format displays them ranked by the number of approval votes they have been awarded. The idea is that the best answer should make it to the top, but in practice, so few posts get votes that more often it merely scrambles conversations and makes discussions hard to read. 

[Chel]

Can we go back and change our answers? I just understood what the actual poll was about, and want to vote for chronological order. But I first voted for the other one (as I didn't really know what this was about). 

[Spricigo]

1 hour ago, Vanamonde said:

The idea is that the best answer should make it to the top, but in practice, so few posts get votes that more often it merely scrambles conversations and makes discussions hard to read. 

So IMHO the issue is not the format, rather the lack of votes. Still, the system works. Instead of quoting or mentioning a good response I may just upvote. Or for a question I made I can chose a correct answer* to signalize I got what I was looking for. 

IMHO keep the question tools in the questions forums and the discussion on the discussion forum. Problem solved. (Except that we really can't solve people's lazyness. Learning to use the forums is inconvenient.  )

 

*A quick look at the threads currently at first page 7/21  have best answer marks (not counting sticks for obvious reason). 3/5 of the popular questions of the last mounth. Good evidence that works.

 

 

[steve_v]

21 minutes ago, Spricigo said:

IMHO the issue is not the format, rather the lack of votes.

IMNSHO the issue is that I don't like voting. If I do vote, it's usually for the worst answer, just to louse up the system.
Make it an option, and not the default, then I don't have to see it.

 

21 minutes ago, Spricigo said:

we really can't solve people's lazyness. Learning to use the forums is inconvenient

So is actually reading the thread to find the information you're looking for, apparently. The voting system is a lazy tool for those who can't be bothered reading posts in order, and an annoyance for those who can.

Edited October 29, 2017 by steve_v

[Deddly]

10 minutes ago, steve_v said:

If I do vote, it's usually for the worst answer

That's a very strange way of ... I don't know. Of... I cannot see a purpose to that, other than to spread false information.

[steve_v]

23 minutes ago, Deddly said:

I cannot see a purpose to that

To point out how annoying this voting system is.

[Deddly]

@steve_v I agree that it can be annoying. I was originally of the opinion that it should be removed, but I was swayed otherwise when I realised how useful it can be.

1) People using a search engine to look for the answer to their question can find the (hopefully) correct one at the top of the list.
2) People browsing the forum looking for a question to answer can skip the ones that are already marked with a "best answer" and go help someone else.
3) Others who open the thread with the intention of answering it will see the current upvoted answers and can just click the up arrow instead of needlessly repeating what has already been said (we all know that a lot of people don't read the whole thread).

[Spricigo]

43 minutes ago, steve_v said:

IMNSHO the issue is that I don't like voting.

I give full support to your right to not vote. Including in this poll. And also like to point that you also have the right to not say something detrimental to you.

 

 

[steve_v]

4 minutes ago, Spricigo said:

I give full support to your right to not vote. Including in this poll.

Too late, can you guess which way I voted?

[Spricigo]

1 minute ago, steve_v said:

Too late, can you guess which way I voted?

I also give full support your right to vote. Including in this poll.

But I think may be good to you consider using better the right to not say something detrimental to you.