The KSP Caveman Challenge 1.3.x - 1.10.x [re-booted]

[RoninFrog]

So I've maxed out the tech tree as far as I can in Caveman.  Or have I?

Spoiler

Here goes.

Spoiler

First, I'm gonna launch a couple of these in order to cover all of Kerbin.

What a boring rocket.

Okay, this configuration should get me all the way around to the back of Kerbin with signal.  There's one probe in a 1.3 Mm orbit, and another at 500 K.

Scanning, scanning, scanning.  It's really not fair that the DSN stations still clutter up the probe maps, yet I can't use them.

  That cluster near the south pole...  It doesn't match any of the anomalies I could find online.  Yes, I did just google where all the easter eggs were. 

P.S.  There's Jeb in a tiny glider in a polar orbit, ready to drop onto a green monolith.

One more probe heading for a polar orbit to get a better target on the southern anomaly:

That's looking really good!

Here comes Jeb!  gonna scope out the area!  I plan to redo this landing once I find out where exactly the monolith is.

Landed.  Hmmm.  Wait...    Do you see it?

Boom!  Green monolith located!  There's also an underwater moon.  Maybe the kraken sank it.

Quickload time!

Yes!  Science!  Not one of the nodes I was hoping for, as big monopropellant tanks and tanks more than 18 tons are useless to me.

But I did learn that the monoliths can be researched by flying over them without actually landing at them.  Very useful.  I have some plans.

 

[RoninFrog]

Big.  I mean BIG.  Progress in technology today.

Spoiler

So...  Why not keep getting nodes?  The next most obvious monolith is the Mun.

Two probes in a 500 km orbit should do the trick.

Scanning, scanning, scanning.  After a couple weeks, this one pops up:

It didn't match any of the anomalies I could find in this list, so it's time to send a probe on a kamikaze trip.  A very low, polar orbit should do it eventually.

Oh!  Oh!  Here it comes!  Burn to the left!  The top antenna rod is pointing at it, for you who are weak of eyesight.  It's on that second ridge.

  *re-reads message*   Hooooo, baby!  Oh man!  That's gonna be a real game changer!

Yessssssss...  Mweh heh heh heh...  This is truly glorious...

"The future is glowing bright" indeed.

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by RoninFrog

[fourfa]

TIL: Baikerbanur is still there in 1.10, and it's got two microbiomes (launchpad and touching the old VAB) that give unique science.

[Mr. Peabody]

@RoninFrog, congratulations are in order! The cave wall has been updated.

The world is your cavern. Keep on spelunking! :p

[RoninFrog]

On 11/3/2020 at 2:43 PM, Mr. Peabody said:

Keep on spelunking!

Ok, I will.  Why not try for Trilobite?

Spoiler

Look at that beautiful nuclear trefoil.

The Oreo Bomber is a truly versatile ascent vehicle.

Yessss...  The mesmerizing blue glow of high velocity radioactivity... 

It looks like...  like...   like every other engine plume in the stock game!

Orbit!  With, um, 500 m/s left!

Okay, 500 m/s is not so great.  I think we need moar fewel.  Here comes a smaller rocket off the pad:

But guess which engine I'm using to burn for orbit!  Aha, I bet you didn't think I would use the mega-technology, all-electric, black market  Non Newtonian 2000  engine which costs merely 200,000 funds! 

Oh wait.  That's just a Terrier.  Ba - ho, ah - ring!

Isn't docking just so fun without a decent tracking station!

Docked!  Hm?  What's this?  That's not a fuel tank!

No, my friends, that thing is not a fuel tank...

This is a fuel tank!

Anyone else have the star wars imperial march stuck in their head?

Like I said, this is one fuel tank (singular).   Heh heh heh.  Dun-dun-dun, dadada dun, dadada dun!

Okay, the empty fuel tank has been jettisoned and the ship has been rearranged to be more symmetrical.

Dun dun dun, dun dadun, dun dadun!

With the addition of the next piece, the ship now looks like a ruptured sputnik.

I'm gonna just show the payloads (yes, plural) docked to save time.  No launches.  [Presses fast-forward]

Dun dun dun, dun dadunnadun!  Dun dun!

Dun du-  <snip>           Edited by moderator:  That's quite enough of your "dun dun dunning".

Last payload for today!

I wonder where I should send Jeb...

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by RoninFrog

[Mr. Peabody]

I remember when first I started this thread. It seems as if it were yesterday.

Now it's been 3 years and there are broken images in the first pages. I feel so proud. 

20 hours ago, RoninFrog said:

Ok, I will.  Why not try for Trilobite?

  Reveal hidden contents

Look at that beautiful nuclear trefoil.

The Oreo Bomber is a truly versatile ascent vehicle.

Yessss...  The mesmerizing blue glow of high velocity radioactivity... 

It looks like...  like...   like every other engine plume in the stock game!

Orbit!  With, um, 500 m/s left!

Okay, 500 m/s is not so great.  I think we need moar fewel.  Here comes a smaller rocket off the pad:

But guess which engine I'm using to burn for orbit!  Aha, I bet you didn't think I would use the mega-technology, all-electric, black market  Non Newtonian 2000  engine which costs merely 200,000 funds! 

Oh wait.  That's just a Terrier.  Ba - ho, ah - ring!

Isn't docking just so fun without a decent tracking station!

Docked!  Hm?  What's this?  That's not a fuel tank!

No, my friends, that thing is not a fuel tank...

This is a fuel tank!

Anyone else have the star wars imperial march stuck in their head?

Like I said, this is one fuel tank (singular).   Heh heh heh.  Dun-dun-dun, dadada dun, dadada dun!

Okay, the empty fuel tank has been jettisoned and the ship has been rearranged to be more symmetrical.

Dun dun dun, dun dadun, dun dadun!

With the addition of the next piece, the ship now looks like a ruptured sputnik.

I'm gonna just show the payloads (yes, plural) docked to save time.  No launches.  [Presses fast-forward]

Dun dun dun, dun dadunnadun!  Dun dun!

Dun du-  <snip>           Edited by moderator:  That's quite enough of your "dun dun dunning".

Last payload for today!

I wonder where I should send Jeb...

 

@RoninFrog,  that's what I call an unfair advantage.

[ManEatingApe]

On 11/5/2020 at 1:33 AM, RoninFrog said:

I wonder where I should send Jeb...

To the best of my knowledge, there's never been a Caveman landing on Moho...

[JAFO]

15 minutes ago, ManEatingApe said:

To the best of my knowledge, there's never been a Caveman landing on Moho...

Or Eve. Visited, yes.. landed, no.

[Mr. Peabody]

3 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

To the best of my knowledge, there's never been a Caveman landing on Moho...

@ManEatingApe, you visited Moho in version 1.1 according to @Moesly_Armlis's records.

It's very difficult for me to picture you performing a mere flyby, even at Moho.

3 hours ago, JAFO said:

Or Eve. Visited, yes.. landed, no.

No caveman has yet been able to conjure magic to that degree.

Yes, ladder drives and similarly driven crafts are still forbidden.

[ManEatingApe]

7 hours ago, Mr. Peabody said:

@ManEatingApe, you visited Moho in version 1.1 according to @Moesly_Armlis's records.

It's very difficult for me to picture you performing a mere flyby, even at Moho.

Apparently I did visit Moho!
Found the album for the mission that delivered a probe into a low polar orbit of Moho. That's technically a little better than a flyby, but not by much.


So looks the achievement of landing is still waiting to be claimed in both Kerballed and non-Kerballed categories. And since Commnet was introduced in 1.2 there's an extra challenge if someone would like to attempt another flyby with Commnet on.

Edited November 6, 2020 by ManEatingApe

[Popestar]

Question on this challenge, and I apologize if it has been answered.  The rules state that the use of KER is forbidden...but I dont see a way to turn it off.  I have it installed, but I rarely use it, preferring the visual output from MechJeb to give me orbital stats for inclination and such.

So, is there a way to turn it off so I still have it installed but not being used?  I really want to push myself, and this challenge is perfect for that.

[RoninFrog]

7 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

Apparently I did visit Moho!
Found the album for the mission that delivered a probe into a low polar orbit of Moho. That's technically a little better than a flyby, but not by much.


So looks the achievement of landing is still waiting to be claimed in both Kerballed and non-Kerballed categories. And since Commnet was introduced in 1.2 there's an extra challenge if someone would like to attempt another flyby with Commnet on.

I definitely have the dV to do a Moho landing, but I'm thinking of maybe doing an kerballed Eeloo landing and return.  Anybody know Eeloo's status on being visited?  If it has already been explored/landed on then I'll definitely go to Moho.

And meanwhile the Jeb-flinger has been (finally) fully assembled.

Spoiler

Here's just a quick blitz through each of the modules being attached.

So many fuel tanks...

Done!  So the final dV-monster is twice the allowed launch mass made up of 18 individually launched pieces, with a calculated dV result of at least 9000 m/s.  That ought to be enough to do something. 

 

[JAFO]

4 hours ago, Popestar said:

So, is there a way to turn it off so I still have it installed but not being used?

Not really.. but you can always uninstall it, and reinstall it again afterward. If you don't want to lose any custom settings, just move the KER folder to someplace else, and put it back when you're done.

Edited November 7, 2020 by JAFO

[ManEatingApe]

8 hours ago, RoninFrog said:

I definitely have the dV to do a Moho landing, but I'm thinking of maybe doing an kerballed Eeloo landing and return.  Anybody know Eeloo's status on being visited?  If it has already been explored/landed on then I'll definitely go to Moho.

I threw a rock at Eeloo back in 1.1 days (a probe into low Eeloo orbit). However I don't think anyone has landed on it.

8 hours ago, RoninFrog said:

Done!  So the final dV-monster is twice the allowed launch mass made up of 18 individually launched pieces, with a calculated dV result of at least 9000 m/s.  That ought to be enough to do something. 

With 9,000 m/s delta-v you could visit Eeloo and...Dres!

[fourfa]

Totally random glitch I've noticed lately.  If I have a probe with an extending antenna (ie HG-5), launch on a decent gravity turn, the circularization point is way around Kerbin out of line-of-sight of KSC.  I have a relay network at keosync but the simple stick antenna can't reach them   

Anyway if I get to the apoapsis having lost probe control as usual, I don't have the ability to extend the high gain antenna and get control back.  HOWEVER, if I pin out the right click menu for the antenna before launch or during controlled flight, the 'extend' option remains there and still works after losing comms!

Outside of Caveman I'm not sure anyone would notice or care but it sure helps here!  I guess the second piece of advice is put your relays as low as you can (while still seeing each other) so this won't matter in the first place

Edited November 7, 2020 by fourfa

[RoninFrog]

The big moment...

Spoiler

Goodbye droptanks!

Gonna do a second pass:

Burning again:

That's looking pretty close.  I know a Eeloo transfer speed should be around 4100 m/s.

Ok, Jeb, buckle up.  It's time for a long ride. 

Jeb is wishing he had gone to Moho instead.

Doing a brief inclination adjustment.  The exhaust plume on the Nerv is deceptively large for the amount of thrust it generates.

Well, Eeloo is a bit behind.  So I'm gonna coast past its orbit, circularize, and then wait for it to catch up.  Emphasis on the "wait".

Ditching a couple engines to favor dV over TWR:

Commence burning.

Time to wait.  Jeb, you better have brought a lot of snacks.

Jeb's kids (if he has any) have now all finished high school and are mostly through college.  And meanwhile, Eeloo has gotten a lot closer.

I didn't know any other way to do it, so once Eeloo got as close as it was gonna get, I burned 180 m/s straight at it.  It seems to be working.

Hey!  Encounter achieved!  After more than 33 years!  Eeloo is right below the left battery light.

Capturing:

Down in low Eeloo orbit after some maneuvering, now it's time to get the lander ready.

Undock the Nerv:

Turn around and undock the pod:

Easy!  Ready to land, finally!!! 

Surprisingly, I actually nailed the Suicide burn first try.

Victory!  A caveman career Eeloo landing has been achieved!

A view of the snow from the cockpit.  Jeb can even see the horizon!  What a view.

Jeb doesn't plan on staying at Eeloo, though.  I don't know if all the other caveman landings were one-way trips, but this one sure won't be!

Docked with the rest of the ship again:

Ok, so here's the situation.  After reorganizing the ship, there is still over 6 km/s of dV left, probably closer to 6.5 km/s after the structural piece is jettisoned.

I might be able to hit Dres on the way back.  No promises, though.

 

[RoninFrog]

Mission complete!

Spoiler

Timing an ejection burn is quite hard without maneuvers.  I have no idea how people did it without quicksaves.

Wow!  That is a lot of debris!  The craft is the one on the Eeloo-Dres trajectory. 

Fast-forward a few years, and Jeb is now braking into a Dres encounter trajectory.

Coming up on Dres, and Jeb has just passed the 50th anniversary of his launch from the KSC!

Ooooh, really nailed that encounter!

Hello Dres, you little existential  crisis.

A makeshift lander has been scrapped together, and the only full tank remaining has been left in orbit.

Landing:

Dres landing!

Of course, Jeb has an excellent view of the dirt.

Okay, enough of this nonsense.  It's really time to get back to Kerbin, now.

The fuel tank has been collected, and now it' time to go back to Kerbin!  Yay!  Jeb, are you excited?  Ha, just kidding, you have to wait in orbit for a year and a half since Dres isn't aligned with Kerbin's orbit.  The look of shock on his face...

The departure burn was beautifully timed over the canyon.

Trajectory after some minor adjustments:

Jeb is running on his last tank!  The structural grid has been jettisoned because it doesn't care if it's left eternally in Kerbol orbit.

After retrying the braking burn at Pe a couple times, I found this Ap to be pretty close:

Jeb is almost home!!  Looking at this picture, I just now realized that Kerbin and the Mun are visible on the right!

The Kerbin encounter was not nearly as accurate as at Dres, so a not insignificant correction burn is needed.

Look at that...  750 m/s remaining...  Just wow...

There goes that docking port...

Splash!  JEB IS HOOOME!

Recovery info:

Spoiler

There you have it.  A caveman Eeloo/Dres manned return.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by RoninFrog

[JAFO]

27 minutes ago, RoninFrog said:

Mission complete!

Bravo!!

That was epic. Well done!

[fourfa]

I fine-tuned a super reliable crewed Minmus lander.  Super safe with a healthy safety margin.  No MH/BG parts. With a fairly aggressive gravity turn at launch (radial out to 75m/s, turn hard to ~15 degrees off vertical, then follow prograde) the topmost drop tank should run out right before a tiny circularization burn.  Transfer/descent fuel should run out right before final landing burn.  I usually have 300+m/s left over back at Kerbin to slow down before re-entry.

It's weird; I'm way more proud of this than the most complex and fashionable SSTOs I ever made

* ask me how I know about collecting the Science Jr data before decoupling

[fourfa]

Man, how many HG-5 antennas is it going to take to get a constant comm signal to Minmus?  I'm up to 28 at keosync opposite KSC and 28 at Minmus, and still no link when KSC is behind Kerbin

(no spoilers, I can make a spreadsheet if I must.  Will just keep docking up 8 at a time)

[RoninFrog]

35 minutes ago, fourfa said:

Man, how many HG-5 antennas is it going to take to get a constant comm signal to Minmus?  I'm up to 28 at keosync opposite KSC and 28 at Minmus, and still no link when KSC is behind Kerbin

(no spoilers, I can make a spreadsheet if I must.  Will just keep docking up 8 at a time)

Pretty sure I read somewhere that each additional antenna adds diminishing amounts of signal power, so it might not be possible.  If you really need signal, try throwing dozens of relays into higher and higher orbits until signal reaches Minmus.

[fourfa]

Yes each one at X^0.75. KSP doesn’t make it easy to figure out distances between celestial bodies, or frame it in terms of available parts, so that doesn’t help. But lol I guess that’s the point here in this thread

[Popestar]

Today I started a new career for the purposes of attempting the KSP Caveman Challenge.  I'm trying to accumulate as many science points as I can before actually getting into space, which means a lot of what seems to be repetitive experiments.  I've completed the first 3 levels of the Tech Tree, sans Stability, and I have 6.9 science points left.  I've launched precisely twice to this point, with both launches going straight up, and neither surpassing 14k meters.  My next 4 launches will all also be nowhere near even sub-orbital; I plan on going east, north, west, and south from the KSC in a pretty standard and small rocket, with the purpose of each flight to simply land somewhere and then get crew reports, temperature and pressure readings, and EVA reports.  Without being able to upgrade any of the buildings, I can't take surface samples, but my guess is that I should be able to garner enough science points through these 4 launches to get about halfway through level 4 on the tech tree...and I haven't even gotten to space yet.

Things will get progressively harder from this point, though.  No patched conics, no maneuver nodes.  Which means I have to guess at where I'm going and what my orbits look like.  Getting to the Mun alone is going to be hard, let alone trying to do fly-bys of Minmus or even the Sun.  And with the 18/30 rules...eesh.  But, I want to push myself, so this is what I'm doing.

I have a Word document going to list out where every point of Science is coming from.  I didn't see anything about not allowing Contracts here (I know there is a no-Contract career challenge out there somewhere), so thankfully I can use those to eke out a few extra Science points.  Once I am done with the challenge - or, rather, when I am ready to have someone critique my work and potentially award the badge - I will post a link to the document so it can be downloaded and reviewed!

[Popestar]

Question on this:  what's the fastest anyone has done this?  I ask because it dawned on me last night as I was attempting to get into space (and crashing gloriously upon reentry, but I can correct that) that without any upgrades at all, Jerbals can't EVA off the planet.  Which makes things a bit more difficult than I originally thought they would be.  Which then makes me think of docking and space stations...and how long it will take to get those up in space.

So just curious what the fastest in-game time on this is.

[fourfa]

Fastest in game time will vary a lot depending on difficulty level! At the easiest settings, I could probably get there in an evening or two of low-stress play.  Nano-crystalline diamond level takes months of consistent gameplay.