The Dunatian

The KSP Caveman Challenge 1.4.x - 1.5.x [re-booted]

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On 18/02/2018 at 9:08 PM, The Dunatian said:

@MinimalMinmus, congrats on completing Vanadium and Topaz! You may claim your badges. :)

Is there any requirement for the advanced difficulty options? because I did the first few launches of a 3rd try without kerbal G-limit (I basically took Hard Advanced settings)

Also, it wouldn't change much, the one mission Jeb would have fainted wouldn't have been changed anyway, because at this point the vessel was out of fuel and free-coasting.

 

By the way, this try is getting much smoother, as I created thanks to another save a serie of cheap, reliable rockets capable of achieving milestones with minimal science.

 

Edit: I'm doing it boys! I'm halfways done, I lost Jeb tho...

But I just developed my ultimate weapon: a 4-stage full tour lander, capable on going on Mun and Minmus, that pushes the caveman tech to its extreme.

Edited by MinimalMinmus

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Corundum is done!!!

Five words: Holy **** that was hard! Not only I had to restart twice, I had to constantly find ways to cut corners to cope with a very limited amount of cash, and the last rocket I used for the 500 last points of science is a 4-stage to-mun-and-back probe that took me over 2 hours of trial and error to design. I'm very proud of it tho.

I'll post the whole journey as soon as I can, maybe today, maybe tomorrow, in the mission reports.

Meanwhile, here's a teaser!

bcBj3mj.jpg

My second fail (Val lives, but I'm broke...)

ekddybd.png

The finished tech tree

f9aDqKi.png

The very not-finished KSC

 

Looks like I'm finally done with this challenge!

int(KSP-caveman_Diamond.exe)

... what was that? I said I'm done...

print("I don't need you, I'm your computer, anyway, I am good at calculations")

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Congratulations and well done @MinimalMinmus! I look forward to seeing the pictures as I'm really curious about the choices you made. I think the challenge really makes the game "real". You sure feel the pain when something crashes.

I think I restarted 3-4 times for different reasons (first was just accepting the wrong contracts). One of my most memorable but stupid restarts was a multi stage flea where I forgot a separator between the pod and the last flea. I thought I had already flown such rockets soooo many times that I could not possibly fail but failure is always an option.

What's your opinion about Diamond? If I would redo my missions but set science return to 20% it seems I'd get stuck before unlocking Advanced Rocketry (missing 20 pts or so). With only crappy loss-making contracts at that point, I'm not sure how to continue. Maybe it is possible with some innovative thinking but I haven't thought much about it yet.

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1 minute ago, dvader said:

What's your opinion about Diamond? If I would redo my missions but set science return to 20% it seems I'd get stuck before unlocking Advanced Rocketry (missing 20 pts or so). With only crappy loss-making contracts at that point, I'm not sure how to continue. Maybe it is possible with some innovative thinking but I haven't thought much about it yet.

Definitely possible. I got very economical during the early game, as you'll soon see. My first rocket cost me a grand total of 7 kerbucks! By grinding splashed/landed contracts, you can make effectively infinite money, even if it's scandalously slow. As you can wait a few days instead of declining contracts, it's also possible to slowly build a non-zero reputation, which will eventually make the contracts get better.

As of the 90 science you need to get serious (45+20+15+5+5), it should be doable with a combination of KSP roving using 2 pods, and if you're really not scared, take an expendable kerbal (*smirks evilly at Bill*) and do the EVA reports in low orbit, as there's quite a few you can get with an almost circular orbit.

For NCD, however, I have not a single clue. Maybe an early mun fly-by? That's almost suicidal, but why not.

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5 minutes ago, MinimalMinmus said:

Definitely possible. I got very economical during the early game, as you'll soon see. My first rocket cost me a grand total of 7 kerbucks! By grinding splashed/landed contracts, you can make effectively infinite money, even if it's scandalously slow. As you can wait a few days instead of declining contracts, it's also possible to slowly build a non-zero reputation, which will eventually make the contracts get better.

As of the 90 science you need to get serious (45+20+15+5+5), it should be doable with a combination of KSP roving using 2 pods, and if you're really not scared, take an expendable kerbal (*smirks evilly at Bill*) and do the EVA reports in low orbit, as there's quite a few you can get with an almost circular orbit.

For NCD, however, I have not a single clue. Maybe an early mun fly-by? That's almost suicidal, but why not.

Agreed. NCD seems impossible. It would be difficult to unlock the reliant and after that it just gets worse...

I've thought about proto-roving but it is just so very annoying without wheels (and I lost Valentina that way on Normal). EVA reports with someone expendable on the other hand, that is an interesting idea. The difficulty would be transporting the subject to space without ladders or much else to keep them in place. Duct tape perhaps?

 

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17 minutes ago, dvader said:

Agreed. NCD seems impossible. It would be difficult to unlock the reliant and after that it just gets worse...

I've thought about proto-roving but it is just so very annoying without wheels (and I lost Valentina that way on Normal). EVA reports with someone expendable on the other hand, that is an interesting idea. The difficulty would be transporting the subject to space without ladders or much else to keep them in place. Duct tape perhaps?

 

In one his runs, @ManEatingApe used a goo canister to give something to "sit on", and prevent Bob to slip out of the ladder as he went for a sub-orbital. By going slow enough, this should be doable. Proto-roving is safe, provided you don't go faster than 10 m/s. I think you can at least squeeze 20 science out of the KSC, which isn't bad at all when everything gives barely anything at all.

Edited by MinimalMinmus

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I have started attempting it. Will post my challenge once finished. For now, I have done several kerbin runs to get science and will soon try orbit

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@MinimalMinmus, congratulations on completing Corundum! Unga Bunga! You may claim your badge. :cool:

@adamgerd, welcome aboard! I will be looking forward to seeing your entry!

I haven't had that much time lately but I'm working on something great to finish off my normal run. I've got lawn assembly pretty much worked out and I should be able to begin construction of the rocket the next time I play the game.

yqLj6fK.jpg

Here's the assembly that I will be using.

mubnWv3.png

Before I go inter-planetary I want to try something that no-one (to my knowledge) has done before in Caveman. Visit a green meanie monolith and collect the science node from it. I will try on kerbin first. Fortunately I have a leg up because I have already mapped all the known easter eggs on kerbin and the tracking dishes are betrayed by their tell-tale green pointer. When I find the anomaly that isn't a easter egg or tracking dish, I'll have it.

NjaXSft.png

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9 hours ago, The Dunatian said:

Before I go inter-planetary I want to try something that no-one (to my knowledge) has done before in Caveman. Visit a green meanie monolith and collect the science node from it. I will try on kerbin first. Fortunately I have a leg up because I have already mapped all the known easter eggs on kerbin and the tracking dishes are betrayed by their tell-tale green pointer. When I find the anomaly that isn't a easter egg or tracking dish, I'll have it.

 

Speaking of which... is it considered cheating if you find a randolith and it unlocks a 150 node?

Edited by MinimalMinmus

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I have no fire directors, but I will now try to go back to space. Expect a report soon.

 

EDIT: here is the report https://imgur.com/a/ImZrG

EDIT 2: and now Bob is dead too. @The Dunatian I think that there should be a graveyard of all the attempts that end in unrecoverable failure.

Edited by K3achas

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7 hours ago, MinimalMinmus said:

Speaking of which... is it considered cheating if you find a randolith and it unlocks a 150 node?

Nope. In the first place they are very hard to find with low-tech probe cores, as I am discovering. Second, you can't choose which node it unlocks. It might unlock a completely useless one. If you can find one, go ahead and use it! :)

@K3achas, I'm happy to see you making progress! Keep up the good work!

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28 minutes ago, The Dunatian said:

Nope. In the first place they are very hard to find with low-tech probe cores, as I am discovering. Second, you can't choose which node it unlocks. It might unlock a completely useless one. If you can find one, go ahead and use it! :)

@K3achas, I'm happy to see you making progress! Keep up the good work!

The jackpot, I'd guess, is precision engineering for the RA-2 and the HECS. Other good 160 nodes would be advanced electrics (better panels? Priceless), advanced exploration (the lab would be a major game-breaker) and actuators as it would simplify rescue missions.

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I'm considering a Diamond attempt but I'm making no promises.

Would the BetterTimeWarp mod be considered cheating? It alters gameplay by making it less tedious but not easier. It would really help for the interplanetary stuff.

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21 hours ago, dvader said:

I'm considering a Diamond attempt but I'm making no promises.

Would the BetterTimeWarp mod be considered cheating? It alters gameplay by making it less tedious but not easier. It would really help for the interplanetary stuff.

I'ts great to see that you are still interested in this challenge. Nice avatar by the way. :wink: Unfortunately I can't allow bettertimewarp. There is a very fine line between non-gameplay altering mods and gameplay altering mods. This is also subject to players interpretation of what is "gameplay altering." As a result I try to lean towards 100% stock if possible to avoid conflict and or confusion. The original definition of a non-gameplay altering mod was a mod that was used for recording, minor graphical improvement, sound, (for example chatterer) ect. I really don't see how bettertimewarp would be of much help anyway. I've done many interplanetary missions using only the stock timewarp.

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51 minutes ago, The Dunatian said:

I'ts great to see that you are still interested in this challenge. Nice avatar by the way. :wink: Unfortunately I can't allow bettertimewarp. There is a very fine line between non-gameplay altering mods and gameplay altering mods. This is also subject to players interpretation of what is "gameplay altering." As a result I try to lean towards 100% stock if possible to avoid conflict and or confusion. The original definition of a non-gameplay altering mod was a mod that was used for recording, minor graphical improvement, sound, (for example chatterer) ect. I really don't see how bettertimewarp would be of much help anyway. I've done many interplanetary missions using only the stock timewarp.

It may be useful to make a list of all non-gameplay mods.x

But how about mods that are more of a convenience than anything else, such as, say, a "destroy all debris" button, or a

 BTW (well, apparently it's the acronym...) is in this category, as it doesn't really change anything, it just allows you to gain some time by allowing you to do higher warps easily, and not wait for some "you must be past X" weirdness.

Another blurry case: KJR, as it does alter the gameplay a bit, but the same function can be gotten with stock.

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Here's a first report on the Diamond attempt. It is my third attempt but I am getting close to the breaking point when it gets much less risky. Still, even though this was my third attempt, I made two almost fatal mistakes (and one that I thought was fatal).

https://imgur.com/a/laRKB

@The Dunatian That's pretty much what I thought. A part of the problem is that once you start allowing some mods there will be an endless discussion about which ones to allow or not. So, I understand and support your decision even though I will miss it. BetterTimeWarp would help when trying to match interplanetary orbits since there is a lot of waiting. On Corundum, I spent about 45 minutes trying to match orbit with Duna. With 5x faster maximum warp, that probably could be cut down at least half.

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@dvader, looking promising! Unfortunately I have some bad news for you guys. For some reason KSP was either "cleaned up" by my anti-virus or I have some other problem. Don't discuss the details here, I'm just letting you know that I might be out of action for a short while.

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@The Dunatian, sorry to hear about your computer problems. It seems they are an inevitable part of life. I've had frequent BSODs when quitting games (like KSC) for a couple of years now. I now know it is the graphics card because I've upgraded everything but that...

I got a question about the Reliant only Mun flyby rocket and added a clarifying picture of it here if anyone else is interested:

https://imgur.com/a/INjRo

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On 2/24/2018 at 11:28 AM, The Dunatian said:

Nope. In the first place they are very hard to find with low-tech probe cores, as I am discovering. Second, you can't choose which node it unlocks. It might unlock a completely useless one. If you can find one, go ahead and use it! 

Agreed. Green monoliths are fair game *if* you can find 'em.

Best,
-Slashy

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On 3/1/2018 at 10:32 AM, The Dunatian said:

This is also subject to players interpretation of what is "gameplay altering." As a result I try to lean towards 100% stock if possible to avoid conflict and or confusion. The original definition of a non-gameplay altering mod was a mod that was used for recording, minor graphical improvement, sound, (for example chatterer) ect. I really don't see how bettertimewarp would be of much help anyway. I've done many interplanetary missions using only the stock timewarp.

The idea is that mods are forbidden if they assist the player's attempt in any way. This includes whether they confer information that wouldn't normally be available, or simply add convenience. For a "modded" run to be valid, the mods must not make life easier for the player in any way. Space needs to be 100% as difficult as a stock install.

BTW is a convenience for the player, therefore disqualified. Likewise, KJR.

HTHs,
-Slashy

 

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10 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

The idea is that mods are forbidden if they assist the player's attempt in any way. This includes whether they confer information that wouldn't normally be available, or simply add convenience. For a "modded" run to be valid, the mods must not make life easier for the player in any way. Space needs to be 100% as difficult as a stock install.

BTW is a convenience for the player, therefore disqualified. Likewise, KJR.

HTHs,
-Slashy

 

I'm thinking about something: SVT does ever-so-slightly changes the gameplay, as it makes boulders and other scatters collidable. However, it's mostly unhelpful for the player, and it's extremely mild anyways. So, is it still good?

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1 hour ago, MinimalMinmus said:

I'm thinking about something: SVT does ever-so-slightly changes the gameplay, as it makes boulders and other scatters collidable. However, it's mostly unhelpful for the player, and it's extremely mild anyways. So, is it still good?

MinimalMinmus,

 SVT is legal since it's a visual enhancement. IIRC, you can turn off collisions with terrain objects so they don't inconvenience you.

Best,
-Slashy

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