Where the hell are Jool's inner moons?

[cratercracker]

Alright, a small thread.

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Why aren't there any Joolian inner shepherd moons?

Jupiters has a lot of them! Saturn has tons of them in the rings and nearby!

But can we have one for the Jool?

Can we have a small potato orbiting very close to the Jool? No? Alright.

Because you see, every celestial object in KSP represent its own challenge!

Moho is hot.

Eve's atmospehere is thick.

Eeloo is so far away it seems non-existencial.

Jool is a gas giant with tons of moons.

Etc.

But there aren't any moons that are very close to its host, are there?

[Spricigo]

53 minutes ago, cratercracker said:

Because you see, every celestial object in KSP represent its own challenge!

So, what new challenges the proposed celestial body would bring?

[cratercracker]

Just now, Spricigo said:

So, what new challenges the proposed celestial body would bring?

Randezvous withan object with a very small sphere of influence while close to a massive gas giant

[MinimalMinmus]

An Amalthea analogue would be quite nice. Could anyone run the calculation for where Jool's Roche Limit would be?

[DAL59]

There should be an Io analogue.

[Interplanet Janet]

How dense would "Joolthea" be?

[cratercracker]

1 minute ago, Interplanet Janet said:

How dense would "Joolthea" be?

As dense as a toilet paper.

[Interplanet Janet]

2 minutes ago, cratercracker said:

As dense as a toilet paper.

Couldn't find the density for that, but A4 paper would work just fine.

So...

d = 1.26(R_M) * (ρ_M/ρ_m)^1/3

ρ_M is Jool's density, 4,678.7272... kg/m³

ρ_m is the small moon's density, 1,201 kg/m³

R_M is Jool's radius, 6,000 km.

4,678.7273 / 1,201 = 3.9706; 3.9706^1/3 = 1.5835.

6,000 * 1.26 = 7,560 km.

7,560 * 1.5835 = 11,791.26 km from Jool's center of mass.

So really, "Joolmalthea" couldn't orbit anywhere closer than a little less than 1 Jool radius above Jool's cloud tops.

[Haruspex]

So basically what you want is another Gilly in a low Jool orbit.

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Haruspex

[MinimalMinmus]

2 minutes ago, Haruspex said:

So basically what you want is another Gilly in a low Jool orbit.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't be against a few tiny, procedurally generated bodies, notably in orbit of Jool, near Dres' orbit, so that it's ACTUALLY a dwarf planet (currently, Kerbin is more of a dwarf planet than Dres), and beyond Eeloo as a "Kuiper Belt"

[RatchetinSpace]

5 hours ago, Spricigo said:

So, what new challenges the proposed celestial body would bring?

A small body deep in Jool's gravity well would require significant Delta V to decelerate to and then escape from.

Quote

Honestly, I wouldn't be against a few tiny, procedurally generated bodies, notably in orbit of Jool, near Dres' orbit, so that it's ACTUALLY a dwarf planet (currently, Kerbin is more of a dwarf planet than Dres), and beyond Eeloo as a "Kuiper Belt"

This.

[Interplanet Janet]

24 minutes ago, RatchetinSpace said:

A small body deep in Jool's gravity well would require significant Delta V to decelerate to and then escape from.

This.

Who says you have to orbit it? You could maybe make a really close pass during a flyby mission, if you so desire.

[Superfluous J]

8 minutes ago, Interplanet Janet said:

Who says you have to orbit it? You could maybe make a really close pass during a flyby mission, if you so desire.

But where's the fun in that?

[Interplanet Janet]

1 minute ago, 5thHorseman said:

But where's the fun in that?

Touché.

(You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.)

(Inconceivable!)

[MinimalMinmus]

I can't help but think we got something like this in OPM: Hale is quite close to Sarnus, and it's even smaller than Gilly.

 

Anyway, and just like OPM!Hale, "Kerbalthea" would probably be a premium refuelling spot.

(And good thing Jool doesn't have Jupiter's ultra radioactive van allen Belts, as the lethal dose is reached in seconds on Amalthea...)

[Oiff]

Maybe just drag a few asteroids into low Jool orbit

 

You might need quite a lot of delta V if you aren’t using F12!

[Interplanet Janet]

5 hours ago, MinimalMinmus said:

I can't help but think we got something like this in OPM: Hale is quite close to Sarnus, and it's even smaller than Gilly.

 

Anyway, and just like OPM!Hale, "Kerbalthea" would probably be a premium refuelling spot.

(And good thing Jool doesn't have Jupiter's ultra radioactive van allen Belts, as the lethal dose is reached in seconds on Amalthea...)

I wonder if we'd be able to maybe make 2? One that orbits closer to Jool than it spins, and one slightly outside that limit? 

[cubinator]

Any inner moons of Jool are probably inside Laythe by now, I think.

[cratercracker]

7 minutes ago, cubinator said:

Any inner moons of Jool are probably inside Laythe by now, I think.

Good point.

But i believe there aren't any large impact craters. What you believe to be the craters are just volcano calderra.

Edited November 5, 2017 by cratercracker

[cubinator]

7 minutes ago, cratercracker said:

Good point.

But i believe there aren't any large impact craters. What you believe to be the craters are just volcano calderra.

What about the half of the moon that looks like an impact crater?

Laythe is very active, so most craters would be destroyed anyway. The moon is quite close to Jool as it is, so I think it would be in a good place to suck up moons. 

[Interplanet Janet]

11 minutes ago, cratercracker said:

Good point.

But i believe there aren't any large impact craters. What you believe to be the craters are just volcano calderra.

Maybe you could make a quick Kopernicus mod of it? Two identical 20-km bodies, one slightly above the synchronous orbit radius (21,010.46 km from Jool's Center of Mass), the other slightly below? A ring between them would maybe be nice.

[cratercracker]

Just now, cubinator said:

What about the half of the moon that looks like an impact crater?

Laythe is very active, so most craters would be destroyed anyway. The moon is quite close to Jool as it is, so I think it would be in a good place to suck up moons. 

Fine then.

Screw the Joolthea! SCREW THIS ALL

 

[Interplanet Janet]

6 minutes ago, cratercracker said:

Fine then.

Screw the Joolthea! SCREW THIS ALL

 

Again, you should make a quick Kopernicus mod to see if it will work. Maybe use Principia to simulate the n-body changes.

Who's to say two of them didn't get sucked up by Laythe's gravity?

Edited November 5, 2017 by Interplanet Janet

[cratercracker]

Just now, Interplanet Janet said:

Again, you should make a quick Kopernicus mod to see if it will work. Maybe use Principia to simulate the n-body changes.

Sorry, my computer is currently Broken and i can't do that.

 

[Interplanet Janet]

Just now, cratercracker said:

Sorry, my computer is currently Broken and i can't do that.

 

OK...maybe have someone else do it for you?

I have Steam, but I don't have it installed on my computer yet.