Where the hell are Jool's inner moons?

[pandaman]

Or how about moons for the moons?

  Small moonlets or captured asteroids orbiting Jool's moons. 

[MinimalMinmus]

Just now, pandaman said:

Or how about moons for the moons?

  Small moonlets or captured asteroids orbiting Jool's moons. 

Such an orbit is fairly unstable. In the solar system, Iapetus would be the rare exception of a moon that could have a stable subsatellite.

 

And this is why OPM's Wal has one!

[Superfluous J]

13 minutes ago, MinimalMinmus said:

Such an orbit is fairly unstable.

Well when it comes to Jool, petty much the whole system is unstable. Throwing a moonlet around Tylo won't make it more stable, but won't really make it much less.

[MinimalMinmus]

Just now, 5thHorseman said:

Well when it comes to Jool, petty much the whole system is unstable. Throwing a moonlet around Tylo won't make it more stable, but won't really make it much less.

It takes 1 month for Vall to ram Tylo, right?

[Interplanet Janet]

Wait a minute...

@_Augustus_, check this out!

[_Augustus_]

@GregroxMun's mod "Revamped Stock Solar System" has a nice Amalthea analog in the form of Ameli.

[Whirligig Girl]

23 hours ago, _Augustus_ said:

@GregroxMun's mod "Revamped Stock Solar System" has a nice Amalthea analog in the form of Ameli.

And Kev as well!

[Kerbal pancake]

On 2017-11-04 at 4:09 PM, Spricigo said:

So, what new challenges the proposed celestial body would bring?

If you’ve ever tried to land on Hale in opm I think you’ll know how much of a pain it is to land on asteroid moons.

seroiusly, you just bounce off the surface and you have to decelerate to sometimes 4m/s to orbit them. 

[Spricigo]

3 hours ago, Kerbal pancake said:

If you’ve ever tried to land on Hale in opm I think you’ll know how much of a pain it is to land on asteroid moons.

seroiusly, you just bounce off the surface and you have to decelerate to sometimes 4m/s to orbit them. 

"difficult to land, like on Gilly" it's not a new challenge.

"it's like landing on Gilly but worse" seems out of the scope of stock KSP for me.

In any case OP already provided a satisfactory answer to that question: Rendezvous with an object with a very small sphere of influence while close to a massive gas giant

[MR L A]

On 04/11/2017 at 7:15 PM, cratercracker said:

Moho is hot.

Not really... I've only ever sent probes without radiators to Moho. The challenge is getting there because of its very high dV cost and is incredibly difficult to return from for the same reason. So, basically Moho is a challenge because it has a small SOI and high dV requirements to get there... pretty much identical to a potato in orbit of Jool.

Not that I'm against the idea - your reasoning just seems a bit off.

[cratercracker]

7 minutes ago, MR L A said:

Not really... I've only ever sent probes without radiators to Moho. The challenge is getting there because of its very high dV cost and is incredibly difficult to return from for the same reason. So, basically Moho is a challenge because it has a small SOI and high dV requirements to get there... pretty much identical to a potato in orbit of Jool.

Not that I'm against the idea - your reasoning just seems a bit off.

Of course the temperature problem can't have place when you are talking about small ships and satellites.

But when it comes to something like ISRU or long burns with the NERV engines, it is "all of sudden" becomes pretty darn hot.

[MR L A]

1 minute ago, cratercracker said:

Of course the temperature problem can't have place when you are talking about small ships and satellites.

But when it comes to something like ISRU or long burns with the NERV engines, it is "all of sudden" becomes pretty darn hot.

Well that isn't Moho's fault... that's just long burns and hot parts that can happen absolutely anywhere in the system.

The challenge of Moho is just a very small SOI, high inclination and distance. 

[cratercracker]

12 minutes ago, MR L A said:

Well that isn't Moho's fault... that's just long burns and hot parts that can happen absolutely anywhere in the system.

The challenge of Moho is just a very small SOI, high inclination and distance. 

You're right about that.

[Interplanet Janet]

And again, there is the possibility (in Principia) of one of the moons crashing into Jool due to tidal forces. Because it orbits around it faster than Jool spins.

[NSEP]

Any moons too close to Jool would break apart because of the roche effect or something. But its KSP, it does not have to be completely realistic. The view from LJO would be stunning.

[Interplanet Janet]

On 11/16/2017 at 2:41 PM, NSEP said:

Any moons too close to Jool would break apart because of the roche effect or something. But its KSP, it does not have to be completely realistic. The view from LJO would be stunning.

Although it could be so small as to be harder to break apart within the Roche Limit...

[MinimalMinmus]

14 hours ago, Interplanet Janet said:

Although it could be so small as to be harder to break apart within the Roche Limit...

A moon so small would have a very, very, very weak gravity right? That wouldn't be very interesting...

[Interplanet Janet]

20 hours ago, MinimalMinmus said:

A moon so small would have a very, very, very weak gravity right? That wouldn't be very interesting...

Touché. 

[0something0]

How about larger asteroids and said asteroids(as well as smaller ones) spawning in the Jool system and elsewhere?

[GoSlash27]

On 11/5/2017 at 2:31 AM, MinimalMinmus said:

Anyway, and just like OPM!Hale, "Kerbalthea" would probably be a premium refuelling spot.

MinimalMinmus,
 I don't think so. The bottom of a giant gravity well is not a good place to set up shop. I would argue the opposite; this body would need to be extremely rich in ore in order to make it worth the trip.

 Best,
-Slashy

[MinimalMinmus]

1 hour ago, GoSlash27 said:

MinimalMinmus,
 I don't think so. The bottom of a giant gravity well is not a good place to set up shop. I would argue the opposite; this body would need to be extremely rich in ore in order to make it worth the trip.

 Best,
-Slashy

Hale isn't quite the bottom of Sarnus' gravity well (which isn't that deep anyway). Similarily, Amalthea is nevertheless at 180 Mm from Jupiter. This isn't much compared to the Earth-moon distance, but we are still 2,5 planetary radii away from LJO.

After all, you only need a "Kerbalthea-Laythe" transfer to get to nearly any intercept, thanks to Laythe's gravity assists.

[Helmetman]

On ‎21‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 12:55 AM, 0something0 said:

How about larger asteroids and said asteroids(as well as smaller ones) spawning in the Jool system and elsewhere?

This!

You'll make your own moon *cough* asteroid by placing it around Jool wherever you want. 
It wouldn't suffice as a moon object (it actually would be ) but I would want asteroids to be better with a variety of spikey surface textures. They're procedurally generated yes, but add more specific surface features to them please.  
The current asteroids look like polished rocky semi spheres, or now that I think of it, polished diamond ore. There should be more variety in this. 

I would like a actual inner moon of gilly size. Maybe rescaling the Joolian system by moving Laythe further out. This will make trip to Jools moons even easier, and I'm not particularly after that either.
It seems whatever one may come up with, it brings always a new caveat to the scene. 

Why don't we, unlike the real Jovian system, throw some Martian system objects into the game like Phobos and Deimos around Laythe?
Maybe actually get Laythe closer to Jool to rebalance the game again. Because natural sattelites around Laythe will make Laythe trips easier, but harder when you move Laythe closer to Jool.

You won't have a Jovian system analogue with inner moons, but I don't think you should want to copycat real existing orbiting systems to KSP anyway. I like the creativity of a new system, otherwise I play RSS.

 

[GoSlash27]

10 hours ago, MinimalMinmus said:

After all, you only need a "Kerbalthea-Laythe" transfer to get to nearly any intercept, thanks to Laythe's gravity assists.

Yeah... but it's still cheaper to depart directly from low Laythe orbit. It makes more sense to have your refueling station there.

Best,
-Slashy

[Interplanet Janet]

On 11/23/2017 at 12:46 PM, Helmetman said:

This!

You'll make your own moon *cough* asteroid by placing it around Jool wherever you want. 
It wouldn't suffice as a moon object (it actually would be ) but I would want asteroids to be better with a variety of spikey surface textures. They're procedurally generated yes, but add more specific surface features to them please.  
The current asteroids look like polished rocky semi spheres, or now that I think of it, polished diamond ore. There should be more variety in this. 

I would like a actual inner moon of gilly size. Maybe rescaling the Joolian system by moving Laythe further out. This will make trip to Jools moons even easier, and I'm not particularly after that either.
It seems whatever one may come up with, it brings always a new caveat to the scene. 

Why don't we, unlike the real Jovian system, throw some Martian system objects into the game like Phobos and Deimos around Laythe?
Maybe actually get Laythe closer to Jool to rebalance the game again. Because natural sattelites around Laythe will make Laythe trips easier, but harder when you move Laythe closer to Jool.

You won't have a Jovian system analogue with inner moons, but I don't think you should want to copycat real existing orbiting systems to KSP anyway. I like the creativity of a new system, otherwise I play RSS.

 

Great compromise, actually! 

[SnailsAttack]

This is a bit of a necro, but I think that it'd be cool of pol or bop was placed a hell of a lot closer to jool. I know that realistically Jool's roche limit would tear them apart, but laythe is way too far from jool to fill the niche challenge of rendezvousing with a low-gravity object near a high-gravity one.

also bop is really lame and could use some added challenge