Transport plane undercarriage collapses

[swjr-swis]

Ok, craft done, uploaded to Dropbox instead of KerbalX to avoid confusion between the two: link here.

 

Took a bit longer... keep forgetting all the little things that were added in 1.3.x that make things easier/faster.

Edited November 21, 2017 by swjr-swis

[Hotel26]

Wonderful.  Meanwhile, I watched your IslandSpeeder1 video: amazingly creative.  I love KSP and I can tell you do too.  Kudos!

[Hotel26]

I've imported it and christened it "Aquila Ursa swjr-swis"  [let me know your official choice for that third component of the nomenclature and it will stand].

It's on the runway for take-off.  Given it'st payload ad short-field mission, this looks so much more a propos.

"Pirep" back here after extensive flight testing!  Merci beaucoup.

[swjr-swis]

1 hour ago, swjr-swis said:

Ok, craft done, uploaded to Dropbox instead of KerbalX to avoid confusion between the two: link here.

I have updated the 1.2.1 craft file -  I noticed several of the tanks were needlessly locked, and for some reason KSP 1.2.1 decided to reverse the flap deployment direction, so I had to negate that. Make sure to download the update before usage (same dropbox link).

[Hotel26]

Very nice.  (The wing/engine tanks in the original were all locked to make only the forward fuselage tank supply all engines at departure to begin shifting the CoM backward.  Not needed now!)

Flaps are good.  Very, very easy to land anywhere.

The chutes are arguably not required now: they were there just to get the beast stopped in a hurry.  (In the staging order, they were supposed to be between the engines and the rover undock.)  In 1.2.1, have you checked the chutes will deploy on landing?  I'm trying to stage them with the Space Bar but they don't deploy.

Nor can I get the Kerbal to the top of the ladder and re-enter the cockpit.  Sidrigh exits the top of the ladder and simply falls back to the cargo bay floor in a heap.  I don't think I quite know how to make him Board the cockpit once reaching the top of the ladder.  Looks like they are going to have to buckle on to the rover and fly from there.  Hope they can land blind at KSC simply talked down by KSC Tower!! 

(This craft has some personality about leveling off at cruise but I think that is my piloting skills rather than the machine.  EDIT: my second flight went better; just some very patient micro-trimming.  Back-taxi on R27 @ KSC and, 19m later, the Inland KSC is in sight.)

Thanks for all the craft notes detailing the Action Groups and providing lots of those.  Life is good!

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Hotel26

[swjr-swis]

14 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

The chutes are arguably not required now: they were there just to get the beast stopped in a hurry.  (In the staging order, they were supposed to be between the engines and the rover undock.)  In 1.2.1, have you checked the chutes will deploy on landing?  I'm trying to stage them with the Space Bar but they don't deploy.

Good catch - no, I did not try them, since it lands so easily even on rough terrain. They won't work from inside the ramp, because of the dreaded 'deploy while stowed' mechanic which I keep hoping will once and for all be made optional for ALL parts.

You can work around this in that version of the plane by opening up the ramp just 1% by using the slider - aside from the chutes now opening, the whole ramp now adds drag and works like a giant airbrake too. Or you can download the adjusted 3a2 version I uploaded to dropbox, in which I replaced the 2x Mk2-R chutes entirely by 2x Mk16 chutes that take the place of the two small nosecones on the tail fuel pod. 2 less parts in total, and it's a more logical place for the chutes. I still had to slightly offset the front chute upwards to avoid the stupid 'deploy while stowed' code from getting in the way of that one, but I think it doesn't retract from a clean aerodynamic line. (*)

 

14 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

Nor can I get the Kerbal to the top of the ladder and re-enter the cockpit.  Sidrigh exits the top of the ladder and simply falls back to the cargo bay floor in a heap.  I don't think I quite know how to make him Board the cockpit once reaching the top of the ladder.  Looks like they are going to have to buckle on to the rover and fly from there.

I admit I didn't test this one in 1.2.1 either, since I copied what I had done in 1.3.1, and there it worked; I can confirm that in 1.2.1 it's not functional this way. This is easily fixed too though: with fine offset (hold shift and make sure it's set to absolute) moved it three 'ticks' forwards into the cockpit bulkhead. In that position, the kerbals smoothly transition from the ladder to the hatch and back. The adjusted 3a2 version I linked above has that fix in place as well.

 

14 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

(This craft has some personality about leveling off at cruise but I think that is my piloting skills rather than the machine.  EDIT: my second flight went better; just some very patient micro-trimming.  Back-taxi on R27 @ KSC and, 19m later, the Inland KSC is in sight.)

I think she has spaceplane aspirations... once she gets up to 20+km, she really wants to just move on into orbit . If you fly on SAS hold, you really have to force nose down a bit before hitting cruise altitude or she will overshoot. I find it easier with SAS off and adjusting trim and throttle.

(*: a tip - your engineer kerbal can go into the cargo bay and walk up the closed ramp to be in range of 'repacking' the two chutes, so they can be utilized for multiple landings.)

Edited November 23, 2017 by swjr-swis
a tip

[Daniel Prates]

On 21/11/2017 at 10:31 AM, Hotel26 said:

Daniel Prates: thank you sir.

swjr-swis: swesome, I am not worthy!!

Glad to help!

[Hotel26]

13 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

adjusted 3a2 version

Excellent!  All of Kerbin has opened up to me now.  Thanks for dealing with me on 1.2.1.  (I'm inspired to upgrade now.)

[swjr-swis]

28 minutes ago, Hotel26 said:

Thanks for dealing with me on 1.2.1.  (I'm inspired to upgrade now.)

I keep several old versions on my disk right alongside the most recent one, so it was no problem (*), you're welcome.

You really should upgrade, there's a marked performance improvement to look forward to plus a nice list of new features and fixed bugs. Just copy your current 1.2.1 folder to another place so you can still fire it up if you want/need to. Save and craft files should transition without problems, but it's always good to have that backup.

 

(* actually, it did cause me a tiny self-inflicted problem: in reloading my 1.2.1 install, I got reminded how many lil projects I had left unfinished/unpublished in that version. My KSP task-list just doubled again... so much for entering the new year well-rested. )

[Hotel26]

You might be interested to know that I found some coconut shells in the cargo bay after one of your test flights and was able to identify them as the kind carried by Hawaiian swallows, of all things!

Perhaps that clears up a mystery(?). 

 

[Hotel26]

https://kerbalx.com/Hotel26/Aquila-Peregrine

This is very close to the final result for me, and it is inspired by the Dolphin, one of the two contributions from swis-swjr.

I'm still a noob, so it's hard to judge perfection on an absolute scale (when you don't know what you don't know) but Peregrine is now close enough that the remaining defect(s) stand out quite tall: it's a semi-wild stallion without SAS coz I have the CoL cranked quite close to the CoM, but I like that agility and this plane has enough punch now that the minor drag from SAS cannot rein it in.

EDIT: I took the precoolers off (not quite as cool) but performance and stability surprisingly better.  [It moved the CoM forward, naturally.]

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Hotel26

[swjr-swis]

18 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

This is very close to the final result for me

Feels good, dunnit? Nothing quite like coming up with a fitting solution to a problem posed. When things start to just click, and stuff works the way you want it. You're hooked now!

 

One question: is it possible you posted the wrong craft? The Peregrine is a different type of plane than the Aquila Ursa in the thread OP - unless the design goals changed mid-thread and I missed it. This one is missing the ramp and the rover, and gained a passenger cabin... looks more like an SSTO crew lifter now than a long-distance atmospheric transport.

I downloaded the Peregrine and tested it - there's plenty of power alright, it went right to LKO on the first try, with plenty of fuel for higher orbits.

A few improvements I could think of:

• The control surfaces could use some tuning - it's over-controlled at the moment, which explains the wild behaviour. Limit the control authority, and dedicate control surfaces to a single axis. I'd say that's the main improvement you can make to this.
• The bi-coupler at the end throws off the balance if filled with fuel. It's perfectly ok to use tanks empty purely for their structural value.
• An extra X200-8 tank in the cargo bay (under the docking port) would balance the rear Mk3 adapter tank so the CoM stays put when burning LFO (if the bi-coupler is left empty, that is). If you also move the wings and engine pods forward it would also balance the LF fuel - the CoM would end up almost dead-center in the cabin, just shifting a bit up-down as fuel burns.

 

I need to thank you for creating this thread, btw: it has reacquainted me with the Mk3 parts, which I've left neglected for a good while now. Mk3 joints were notoriously weak at one point, which made me give up using them - but playing around with the parts due to your questions made me realize they're much better now, and I need to use them more. Hmm, maybe time to pick up my old shuttle projects again...

[Hotel26]

2 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

Feels good, dunnit? Nothing quite like coming up with a fitting solution to a problem posed. When things start to just click, and stuff works the way you want it. You're hooked now!

One question: is it possible you posted the wrong craft? The Peregrine is a different type of plane than the Aquila Ursa in the thread OP - unless the design goals changed mid-thread and I missed it. This one is missing the ramp and the rover, and gained a passenger cabin... looks more like an SSTO crew lifter now than a long-distance atmospheric transport.

Yes, sir!  Thanks for the inspiration.  And: GREAT CATCH!  Yes, this thread was about Ursa (transport plane) and your final rev of it was perfect.  I then turned back to Falcon (an SSTO, now Peregrine) to apply what I had learned.  So thanks for pointing out  that I posted a different craft so that it won't confuse anyone reading this later.  TWO for the price of ONE. 

Thanks also for the suggestions.  I'll follow up.

I just updated the craft at KerbalX because I discovered that removing the precoolers made the plane fly considerably better.  So to anyone who downloaded, I do recommend you download it again or simply take the precoolers out of the wingboard engines yourself.

---

My next project will be to take my old Trident craft and convert it to a flying control tower.    It's fundamentally 3 towers of Hitchhiker cabins with a cupola overlooking the lot.  Aquila Neptune.  You de-orbit it toward your target; drogues to slow; glide over the top of the target, then deploy main chutes to set it down vertically on its fins.  [I'm working on a KSP "mod" to "build" hub airports and refuel aircraft parked on the tarmac.  ]

Edited December 14, 2017 by Hotel26