Leonov

KSP Unofficial Official Computer Building/Buying Megathread. (All Questions Acceptable.)

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2 hours ago, Nuke said:

Im going to cram it into my old but beloved elite 110 mini-itx case. 

after experiencing heat isues with my 4790k i realize i need a better cooling solution. anything i should know about these things before i take the plunge so to speak. 

That case is impressively tiny.  I didn't know a case so little existed that could still fit a GPU of any kind.

Heat is always going to be an issue in a small case like that, a 120mm AiO kit is the best you'll be able to do.  I know the 2700 has a 105w thermal envelope but I don't know what the realistic consumption is during gaming or whatever other CPU intensive activities you're doing.

For what it's worth, I just bought a Fractal Designs Core 500 case for my OC'ed i5 build.  It's similar height/width to the 110, but longer.  This length allows for much larger cooling systems though, it'll even fit a 280mm radiator for some near-silent OCing.  Maybe consider that if you want to stay small but keep heat under control.

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5 hours ago, tsaven said:

That case is impressively tiny.  I didn't know a case so little existed that could still fit a GPU of any kind.

Heat is always going to be an issue in a small case like that, a 120mm AiO kit is the best you'll be able to do.  I know the 2700 has a 105w thermal envelope but I don't know what the realistic consumption is during gaming or whatever other CPU intensive activities you're doing.

For what it's worth, I just bought a Fractal Designs Core 500 case for my OC'ed i5 build.  It's similar height/width to the 110, but longer.  This length allows for much larger cooling systems though, it'll even fit a 280mm radiator for some near-silent OCing.  Maybe consider that if you want to stay small but keep heat under control.

well the sfx power supply does actually free up a lot of space. also using a lot of custom cables and i will actually be able to eliminate a few of them by going to m.2  theres room now for me to put in a 3d printed drive cage if i want more than the single m.2 drive. it also gives me an extra inch or so of clearence over the cpu fan. thats still probibly not enough for the stock cooler that comes with the 2700x, that thing is huge. i just want stock or better performance, this computer has to last a few years and im not going to overclock it. aside from the forward fan slot (which i upgraded from 120mm to 140mm and will be replaced by the radiator), the case really doesnt have good fan options, there is slottage for a pair of 80 mm fans on the video card side, but you cant use those with a double slot video card. because of that i got out my power drill and made room for another 80mm fan in the side opposite the video card (also made possible by the sfx power supply). this was after having some thermal issues in games i was playing. it seems to have helped somewhat. so the idea is to have the side fan cool everything that isnt video card or cpu, the radiator cool the cpu and the video card is more than capable of cooling itself. that should in theory make up for the extra 10 watts of tdp over my current cpu.

incidentally there is a space limit for the video card (210mm in length) but there were 1060s that fit. you just cant use any of the dual fan cards.

Edited by Nuke

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14 hours ago, tsaven said:

I'll be honest though, you're spending a lot more money for a kinda questionable gain in performance on a very specific niche game.  For anything that's not KSP, a Ryzen will be excellent and even for KSP it's not going to be bad.  Maybe you'll have to keep your part counts under 300 and back off the mods a little, or just deal with 20fps (which is still totally playable for most situations).

And there lies the dilemma.  A Ryzen 5 and 1060 will do what I want now, maybe a non overclocked i5 might be slightly quicker for not much more, but after that the cost increase seems to be bigger than the performance increase, but the performance would be nice to have, and would mean I probably wouldn't be upgrading any parts for quite a few years.

As someone has pointed out to me though, if I go for a 1080 it's pointless without spending a lot more on a higher resolution/frequency monitor too.

It's a bit of a manmaths thing on whether I can justify spending the extra money, which I think comes down to the question of in a year or two will I regret not spending it upfront :D

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my reason for upgrading is mostly that my computer is getting too old, it turns 4 this year. even though going from a 4790k to a ryzen 7 2700x is at most a 15% improvement. new cpu means i get usb 3.1, m.2, a sweet new cooler, and twice the cores/threads. i take a hit to cpu clock, loosing about 300 mhz. but when i go to crank on visual sfm all those cores are going to come in handy. not to mention compiling code faster, synthesizing logic faster, and breathing new life into my system. of course the old components get shifted down the line, 4790k becomes my lab machine, my lab machine (a slightly older i7) becomes my mom's machine and moms machine (an early i5) becomes a media center pc. ive been toying with the idea of dropping our outrageously priced cable tv for faster internet, netflix, sling, and hulu. not to mention if i dont build a pc every few years my skills will grow rusty. gaming is a tertiary concern at best. right now all i play is minecraft, mwo, and ksp, as my relationship with the modern games industry is on shakey ground at best. 

Edited by Nuke

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19 hours ago, RizzoTheRat said:

manmaths

That's a good word, I'm gonna have to take it :)

If I were in your situation, I'd probably stick with the Ryzen and a 1070, and save your money for the future.  There's always going to be faster and better in the future, and it's impossible to future-proof.  You could blow $3,000 or $1,000 right now, and five years from now they'll both be equally obsolete.

That being said, I'm the one putting together a shiny new OCed i5-8600k with a giant water-cooling setup and 32GB of RAM . . . running on a 2gb GTX 960.  Because all I play is KSP and I have more money than brains. :confused: So maybe my advice isn't worth much.

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Well I've been paying on PCPartpicker again.

It looks like the standard i5 8600 is a fraction quicker than the Ryzen 5 2600x, so I could either go with that, a GTX 1060 and a 1080 monitor, which lets face it will do pretty much everything I'm likely to want for now.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8600 3.1GHz 6-Core Processor  (£196.78 @ PC World Business) 
Motherboard: ASRock - H370 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  (£89.99 @ Amazon UK) 
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory  (£132.53 @ Ebuyer) 
Storage: Crucial - MX500 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (£77.99 @ Aria PC) 
Storage: Hitachi - Ultrastar 7K3000 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  (£49.99 @ Amazon UK) 
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB Dual Video Card  (£245.47 @ Scan.co.uk) 
Case: Corsair - 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  (£57.98 @ CCL Computers) 
Power Supply: Corsair - TXM Gold 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  (£67.99 @ Amazon UK) 
Optical Drive: Lite-On - iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer  (£9.97 @ Amazon UK) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit  (£82.97 @ Laptops Direct) 
Monitor: Iiyama - G-MASTER BLACK HAWK 24.5" 1920x1080 75Hz Monitor  (£119.92 @ PC World Business) 
Keyboard: Logitech - K120 - UK Layout Wired Standard Keyboard  (£9.95 @ Overclockers.co.uk) 
Mouse: Logitech - M100 Wired Optical Mouse  (£15.77 @ SmartTeck.co.uk) 
Speakers: Creative Labs - Inspire T3300 27W 2.1ch Speakers  (£43.89 @ Amazon UK) 
Total: £1201.19
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-09-15 11:24 BST+0100

 

Or I blow an extra £500 to get an i5 8600k with motherboard and cooler suitable to overclock it, and a GTX 1080 and a 2k monitor, on the ground that it'll cost me more than that to replace them later

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8600K 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor  (£225.18 @ PC World Business) 
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler  (£59.86 @ CCL Computers) 
Motherboard: MSI - Z370 TOMAHAWK ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  (£119.47 @ Scan.co.uk) 
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (£139.15 @ Amazon UK) 
Storage: Crucial - MX500 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (£77.99 @ Aria PC) 
Storage: Hitachi - Ultrastar 7K3000 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  (£49.99 @ Amazon UK) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB WINDFORCE OC 8G Video Card  (£449.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk) 
Case: Corsair - 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  (£57.98 @ CCL Computers) 
Power Supply: Corsair - TXM Gold 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  (£67.99 @ Amazon UK) 
Optical Drive: Lite-On - iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer  (£9.97 @ Amazon UK) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit  (£82.97 @ Laptops Direct) 
Monitor: AOC - AG241QG 23.8" 2560x1440 165Hz Monitor  (£379.99 @ Amazon UK) 
Keyboard: Logitech - K120 - UK Layout Wired Standard Keyboard  (£9.95 @ Overclockers.co.uk) 
Mouse: Logitech - M100 Wired Optical Mouse  (£15.77 @ SmartTeck.co.uk) 
Total: £1746.25
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-09-15 11:26 BST+0100

 

Decisions, decisions...

Edited by RizzoTheRat

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How well does KSP run with the i5-8300H? I'm curious because it has a decent single-thread CPU rating: (It's the middle bar)

50fRJws.jpg

Does anyone run KSP with this CPU? If so, how well does it perform? And how many parts can it handle?

Thank you!

Edited by The_8_Bit_Zombie

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I think the Technical Support section is for game issues, not for questions about running the game with a particular CPU. You should post this in The Lounge, not the support section of the forum

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12 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

I think the Technical Support section is for game issues, not for questions about running the game with a particular CPU. You should post this in The Lounge, not the support section of the forum

Thanks for the info. I'll try to move it to The Lounge.

Edited by The_8_Bit_Zombie
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Looking for a bit of info based on actual experience from you guys.

I'm currently building a pretty significant upgrade for my main computer, and all that I have left is RAM.  I'm looking at 32GB of DDR4-3600.

I currently have 32GB of DDR4-2400, in a 4 x8 configuration.

I'm not sure what would be better, 4 x 8, or 2 x 16?  Googling it there doesn't seem to be much of a difference, but I was wondering if anyone had any insight on it. 

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4 hours ago, Geonovast said:

Looking for a bit of info based on actual experience from you guys.

I'm currently building a pretty significant upgrade for my main computer, and all that I have left is RAM.  I'm looking at 32GB of DDR4-3600.

I currently have 32GB of DDR4-2400, in a 4 x8 configuration.

I'm not sure what would be better, 4 x 8, or 2 x 16?  Googling it there doesn't seem to be much of a difference, but I was wondering if anyone had any insight on it. 

4x8 or 2x16 doesnt matter as long as all the ram sticks match

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On 9/15/2018 at 3:27 AM, RizzoTheRat said:

Decisions, decisions...

Just a matter of how poor do you want to be.  :)

Option 2 will have a lot more performance.  If that's worth the huge inflation price is a decision only you can make.

On 9/16/2018 at 3:01 PM, The_8_Bit_Zombie said:

How well does KSP run with the i5-8300H? I'm curious because it has a decent single-thread CPU rating: (It's the middle bar)

50fRJws.jpg

Does anyone run KSP with this CPU? If so, how well does it perform? And how many parts can it handle?

Thank you!

It'll run KSP well, but the real problem is going to be the cooling system on your laptop.  As a general rule, the tiny little fans and heatsinks on laptops aren't designed for sustained periods of high utilization, and the CPUs will usually start slowing themselves down after a few minutes of heavy use to keep themselves from burning up.  So you may notice the performance dropping off dramatically the longer you play.

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im having second thoughts about the aio cooler. after reading reviews and finding a lot of horror stories about leaks and pump failures. if it fails im out $800 (and thats preliminary before i get things like new case fans, cables and anything else i might need) in parts and its not like i can find a low profile air cooler that i would be comfortable with running at a 105tdp. the pickings are pretty slim as it is. if i go with the 8700k (or perhaps the 8700 for an even lower tdp) instead of the 2700x i can do away with the aio cooler and use a low profile noctua air cooler instead. if i go with the 65w 8700 i dont even need the cooler because i think the stock will fit. i would save another $60 bucks and still have something at least 20% better. that money could go into a new ssd or something like that (double headed m.2 drives would make some cables disapear). i also get a better mobo with 2x m.2 slots instead of just one. i still got a good 3 weeks till i get my pfd (a big check you get every year for living in alaska) so i got plenty of time to think about it. 

Edited by Nuke

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@Nuke Just stick the thing in a fish tank with mineral oil.

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2 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

@Nuke Just stick the thing in a fish tank with mineral oil.

yea that would cost more than i have. if i put it in a tank of anything its going to be that stuff they used to cool the cray2. but last i checked that stuff is $500/gallon used. 

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2 hours ago, Nuke said:

im having second thoughts about the aio cooler. after reading reviews and finding a lot of horror stories about leaks and pump failures. if it fails im out $800 (and thats preliminary before i get things like new case fans, cables and anything else i might need) in parts and its not like i can find a low profile air cooler that i would be comfortable with running at a 105tdp. the pickings are pretty slim as it is. if i go with the 8700k (or perhaps the 8700 for an even lower tdp) instead of the 2700x i can do away with the aio cooler and use a low profile noctua air cooler instead. if i go with the 65w 8700 i dont even need the cooler because i think the stock will fit. i would save another $60 bucks and still have something at least 20% better. that money could go into a new ssd or something like that (double headed m.2 drives would make some cables disapear). i also get a better mobo with 2x m.2 slots instead of just one. i still got a good 3 weeks till i get my pfd (a big check you get every year for living in alaska) so i got plenty of time to think about it. 

Actualy the Ryzen CPUs are easier to cool since they are soldered beneath the heatspreader. Intels Hexacores come just with thermal compound which is way worse. Most Ryzens also come with a decent heatsink, while those packed with Intel CPUs are barely enough to keep them from throteling down...

AiOs also arent allways the best cooling solution. They are quite expensive and often louder than air coolers. A Thermalright Macho or Alpenföhn Brocken will cool all the CPUs youve mentioned quite well.

Edited by Elthy
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4 hours ago, Nuke said:

im having second thoughts about the aio cooler. after reading reviews and finding a lot of horror stories about leaks and pump failures. if it fails im out $800 (and thats preliminary before i get things like new case fans, cables and anything else i might need) in parts and its not like i can find a low profile air cooler that i would be comfortable with running at a 105tdp. the pickings are pretty slim as it is. if i go with the 8700k (or perhaps the 8700 for an even lower tdp) instead of the 2700x i can do away with the aio cooler and use a low profile noctua air cooler instead. if i go with the 65w 8700 i dont even need the cooler because i think the stock will fit. i would save another $60 bucks and still have something at least 20% better. that money could go into a new ssd or something like that (double headed m.2 drives would make some cables disapear). i also get a better mobo with 2x m.2 slots instead of just one. i still got a good 3 weeks till i get my pfd (a big check you get every year for living in alaska) so i got plenty of time to think about it. 

If you're doing that, save yourself money and get the 8600 (or 8600k if you want to overclock).  The difference between the 8600 and 8700 (Hyperthreading and cache) won't give significant performance increase for most games.  And definitely not with KSP.

Also look into de-lidding the CPU.  That can lower temperatures by 5c-10c, and will make a big difference if you're trying to cool it in a small case.

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9 hours ago, Elthy said:

Actualy the Ryzen CPUs are easier to cool since they are soldered beneath the heatspreader. Intels Hexacores come just with thermal compound which is way worse. Most Ryzens also come with a decent heatsink, while those packed with Intel CPUs are barely enough to keep them from throteling down...

AiOs also arent allways the best cooling solution. They are quite expensive and often louder than air coolers. A Thermalright Macho or Alpenföhn Brocken will cool all the CPUs youve mentioned quite well.

problem is the ryzen stock cooler wont fit in my mini itx case. that thing is a behemoth thats about 9 cm tall. so i would have to spend an extra hundred or so bucks on a new case and probably new fans and cables too. original plan was to use an aio liquid cooler. but i had second thoughts about using a cooler that will likely fail catastrophically at some point. thats another $80 as well. so either way amd stops being a very budget friendly option. 

7 hours ago, tsaven said:

If you're doing that, save yourself money and get the 8600 (or 8600k if you want to overclock).  The difference between the 8600 and 8700 (Hyperthreading and cache) won't give significant performance increase for most games.  And definitely not with KSP.

Also look into de-lidding the CPU.  That can lower temperatures by 5c-10c, and will make a big difference if you're trying to cool it in a small case.

im probibly going to be using it more as a workstation than the gaming rig. my current rig handles the games i play just fine so i have no doubt that any current gen processor will do. but it does turn out the 4790k is a hard chip to replace hince why im trying to avoid ultra budget options. like going with a ryzen 2700 for example wouldnt really be much of a performance boost. i also considered the 1800x but a lot of the mini itx mother boards wont support m.2 under a first gen ryzen without gimping my pcie slot down to 8x. part of the upgrade is to get access to new tehcnology like m.2 and usb 3.1, so that chip negates those plans. 

this leads me to the land of blue, although i still want to investigate thread ripper. id be using my old fractal case which is kind of a let down (i really like my elite 110), since there are almost no mini itx threadripper boards, and were looking at a behemoth of a cooler too. i very much doubt that will pan out at all. so im most likely going with the 8700 (i want my threads), which after some investigation would actually come out cheaper than the ryzen 2700x build, which means i can spend the surplus on an nvme ssd and that will definitely improve performance. 

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11 hours ago, The_8_Bit_Zombie said:

How well does KSP run on the GTX 1050 Ti? Assuming you have visual mods like Scatter + EVE, or Astronomer's Visual Pack.

it will run fine. i use to run a bunch of visual mods on my 6yr old Radeon 7970 without any issues so a GTX-1050ti will easily do this task.

plus the 1050ti will allow you to play  a lot of modern games @1080p high settings that arent KSP.

 

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things ran great on my 750ti until i replaced it with a 1060 last year. and i only bought that because i couldnt afford a core components upgrade that was better than what i was already running. 

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On 9/21/2018 at 11:25 PM, The_8_Bit_Zombie said:

How well does KSP run on the GTX 1050 Ti? Assuming you have visual mods like Scatter + EVE, or Astronomer's Visual Pack.

Resolution is going to matter a lot for that.  It should be okay, but Scatterer is going to give you a very big framerate hit.  Should be manageable though, as long as you're playing at 1920x1080 or under.

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On 9/17/2018 at 11:39 AM, Geonovast said:

Looking for a bit of info based on actual experience from you guys.

I'm currently building a pretty significant upgrade for my main computer, and all that I have left is RAM.  I'm looking at 32GB of DDR4-3600.

I currently have 32GB of DDR4-2400, in a 4 x8 configuration.

I'm not sure what would be better, 4 x 8, or 2 x 16?  Googling it there doesn't seem to be much of a difference, but I was wondering if anyone had any insight on it. 

As you said, I don't think there's much if any difference nowadays. Personally though, I would probably go for the 2x 16 just for future upgrades if you want.

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