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Cooling issues since 1.3.1


mystik

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Before, I could use one convert o tron 125 and 6x small radiators (the extendable ones). Now, it barely works if I add an extra 2 huge radiators. The ones that are insanely big. What happened?

 

It is ridiculous. It makes my SSTO unworkable if I cannot cool it. Is this a bug or something changed? I currently have a ship in space and have been playing since this summer on a grand tour and now it looks like it is stranded.

 

How many radiators do you use to cool down the 125?

Edited by mystik
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I did some extra reseach, looking at the 1.3.1 file vs the 1.2.2 file for the mini ISRU

The following differences were observed

1.3.1/1.2.2

50.

TemperatureModifier

50.

TemperatureModifier

51.

{

51.

{

52.

key = 0 50000 0 0

52.

key = 0 50000

53.

key = 750 25000 0 0

53.

key = 750 25000

54.

key = 1000 5000 0 0

54.

key = 1000 5000

55.

key = 1250 2500 0 0

55.

key = 1250 2500

56.

key = 2000 2500 0 0

56.

key = 2000 2500

57.

key = 4000 0 0 0

57.

key = 4000 0

 

UseSpecialistHeatBonus = true       (missing in 1.2.2)
SpecialistHeatFactor = 0.1               (missing in 1.2.2)

Does anybody know what these differences do? I used to be able to cool the damn thing before easily without problems with 6 small radiators. Nothing has changed since.

 

https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/api/class_base_converter.html

Explains:

float BaseConverter.SpecialistHeatFactor = 0.1f

How much each level of the specified ExperienceEffect will reduce heat

 

But this still does not explain why now the thing overheats more than it used to.

Edited by mystik
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Update:

 

Going through files, I found something, I have not seen it in the release notes:

minidrill.cfg

155.            MaxCoolant = 100                    //Maximum amount of radiator capacity we can consume - 50 = 1 small    148.            MaxCoolant = 50                    //Maximum amount of radiator capacity we can consume - 50 = 1 small

radialdrill.cfg

154.            MaxCoolant = 200                    //Maximum amount of radiator capacity we can consume - 50 = 1 small    142.            MaxCoolant = 100                    //Maximum amount of radiator capacity we can consume - 50 = 1 small

 

Whatever these numbers mean, they simply have halved the efficiency of the radiators, making the ISRU unusable.

Edited by mystik
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Nobody experienced this? Nobody uses ISRU on their SSTO? I tested extensively and definitely the cooling rules have changed, where one small radiator was required, not a medim one is the minimum if you don't want to get screwed over for mining for a day and your efficiency dropping to 0 faster than the temperature at the north pole.

 

I know some game developers mess us occasionally during updates, but at least they provide feedback. I have logged a bug in version 1.2 ONE YEAR AGO and have not even received one notification that someone looked at it. I'll just revert back to 1.2.2 to finish my grand tour and refrain from updating anytime soon.

 

I won't be using 1.3 because you managed to make the sun stutter in the sky, as well as break the drills action groups, well done, *slow clap*. I am having serious doubts of ever purchasing the DLC you're working on if I am forced to upgrade the version to a new release with improved game breaking "fixes", I rather pass. The thing is I have no faith in your ability to fix things. Simply because I log into your bug database and there are only a handful of things that are fixed, the rest of the bugs go unnoticed. You don't deserve the committed community, not with such dismissing treatment of your player base. You have free game testers and you don't care. Whatevs, devs.

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13 minutes ago, NSEP said:

I was wanting to use ISRU on an SSTO, but now im going to have to use extra radiators.

I can probably fit them in a big cargo bay so its probably no big deal for me.

Don't get me wrong, I can stick a few more radiators too, but I already have a ship out there that has visited Moho, Gilly, Mun, Minmus, Duna, Ike, Dres. Now it is just dead weight near Jool because it cannot refuel anymore. This is why I have to revert. All my Minmus and Asteroid miners are useless. I need to replace them all, but I don't want to. It's just easier to stick to an older version of the game. I don't need the new languanges nor do I need the "fixes" they applied in 1.3 and 1.3.1.

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3 minutes ago, mystik said:

Don't get me wrong, I can stick a few more radiators too, but I already have a ship out there that has visited Moho, Gilly, Mun, Minmus, Duna, Ike, Dres. Now it is just dead weight near Jool because it cannot refuel anymore. This is why I have to revert. All my Minmus and Asteroid miners are useless. I need to replace them all, but I don't want to. It's just easier to stick to an older version of the game. I don't need the new languanges nor do I need the "fixes" they applied in 1.3 and 1.3.1.

Can't you just edit the configs or make an MM patch?

Sticking to 1.2 is also a good idea, i understand.

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4 minutes ago, NSEP said:

Can't you just edit the configs or make an MM patch?

Sticking to 1.2 is also a good idea, i understand.

I am not that good with modding this game. I might actually mess things up. I can mess with the numbers, but I am not willing to put that much effort to fix something the developers messed up. I already payed cash for the game, not willing to pay extra time too. It's fine if I go back to 1.2.2 as there are lots of mods that still work with that version.

Edited by mystik
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24 minutes ago, mystik said:

I am not that good with modding this game. I might actually mess things up. I can mess with the numbers, but I am not willing to put that much effort to fix something the developers messed up. I already payed cash for the game, not willing to pay extra time too. It's fine if I go back to 1.2.2 as there are lots of mods that still work with that version.

You can fix it within 1 minute, its really easy and there is no big brother who will judge you for what you are doing. But if you don't want to, you don't have to, its up to you on how you want to solve it.

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On 12/3/2017 at 11:19 PM, mystik said:

UseSpecialistHeatBonus = true       (missing in 1.2.2)
SpecialistHeatFactor = 0.1               (missing in 1.2.2)

This looks like engineer bonus, which is propably why I hardly noticed a difference, even when extracting and converting during Moho's mid-day.

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This has definitely affected my surface mining bases. I replaced my Mun base because of it (and also because it was really old and was launched before I'd finished the tech tree and figured out how to properly build surface bases) and my Dres outpost (which was launched before the update but didn't arrive until after) went from operating at 100% thermal efficiency during tests to having significant losses during actual operation. The biggest problem is my Moho base, which was always pretty slow (it uses the small sized drills and ISRU) but who's output has gone down to almost nothing since the change. I don't need too much fuel from that base since I don't have any permanent manned presence at Moho but it's still annoying.

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2 hours ago, mystik said:

... Now it is just dead weight near Jool because it cannot refuel anymore. ...

Wow, that is one serious bug!

That a reduction in the efficiency of your cooling has COMPLETELY stopped a ship from operating its isru *AT ALL*, would require a complete collapse of the thermal code.

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In another thread, I saw Bewing say that this was purposeful. That the small converter was supposed to overheat. That it wasn't possible to cool it enough for continuous operation. I don't know if it's necessarily true or not, as I haven't used a small converter in a long time. The only reason I can think of is that it's meant to force you to use the large converter; trading mass for efficiency. I have a small refueling rover on Tylo that uses the 125. It's always worked just fine, so I'll have to check it out. If not, it's effectively been rendered useless.

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1 hour ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

In another thread, I saw Bewing say that this was purposeful. That the small converter was supposed to overheat. That it wasn't possible to cool it enough for continuous operation. I don't know if it's necessarily true or not, as I haven't used a small converter in a long time. The only reason I can think of is that it's meant to force you to use the large converter; trading mass for efficiency. I have a small refueling rover on Tylo that uses the 125. It's always worked just fine, so I'll have to check it out. If not, it's effectively been rendered useless.

It isn't. If you look at the data regarding the 125 you may think that, but the truth is, if you stick enough radiators, you can prevent it from overheating.

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Thermal_Control_System_(small)

It will still overheat, no matter what, but your efficiency will stop at 97.4%, and not reach 100% with time. No matter how many radiators I would stick on to it, it would never go past this efficiency (it would be for a brief moment at 100%, but then it would just keep heating up until the efficiency drops to the above value.

You were told the truth and a lie at the same time. Essentially it can operate indefinitely but not at 100%. Continuous operation. I know, that's how I would refuel my SSTO. It would take up to 60 days of refueling and to me, that is a long time, so this claim makes no sense.

Edited by mystik
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21 minutes ago, mystik said:

You were told the truth and a lie at the same time. Essentially it can operate indefinitely but not at 100%. Continuous operation. I know, that's how I would refuel my SSTO. It would take up to 60 days of refueling and to me, that is a long time, so this claim makes no sense.

That makes much more sense. It's pretty much the way I've always thought of the small converter: useful for smaller ships that need to be self-sufficient. The trade-off being the amount of time it takes. Sixty days is pretty brutal, but perfectly doable when your transfer window is a year away anyway. My little rover on Tylo has always worked just fine. Glad to hear it's not ready for retirement just yet.

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I updated my Arrow design to V3.0 to account for the radiator changes. But that will be updated on kerbalx later on. In the meantime, I created a mini attachable nose cone that includes extra radiators. It attaches to the front and seems to work quite well. It is a patch to the Arrow V1.0, which has reached the Jool system, so no chance of recalling it now, when it only has the Jool system and Eeloo to visit. It has been in space for 36 years now and it will complete this tour as it is.

 

For those that do not know what the Arrow is, here is the dedicated thread:

 

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