KSP Weekly: Longest Stay on the Moon

[Mako]

13 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

You understand 1.2.2 Isn't just a patch it's the final version of 1.2 Which adds Kerbal Network, Relay Satellites, and all those antennas basically it makes satillites worth something.

That is a very good point. Thank you. I had forgotten when/what update those features were added.

 

On 12/10/2017 at 3:49 AM, stibbons said:

Because you don't switch targets midway.

While I understand that the general rule of software development is to finish a project before moving on (i.e. finish console 1.2.2 before doing 1.3), it still strikes me as horribly inefficient and likely more expensive to spend over half a year implementing a system (old UI) that you always intended to replace with a system that is already completed (1.3 UI).

If it was a decision to get the console version out sooner, then I can at least understand it but it still means that bringing 1.3 and all the languages will take even longer and cost even more money. And that's not to say anything about a console 1.4 since it will likely not be out by the time the console re-launch occurs. My concern for all of this that I suspect the console versions have not sold well so far, and I'm pessimistic about future sales even after it's fixed. In turn, I'm pessimistic about Take-Two's interest in spending money on the console versions. Unless it won't cost very much, I don't expect to see the console versions updated past 1.2.2 (besides a bug fix or two if necessary and in budget). That's why I think it would have been far better to have moved targets as far forward as possible despite being forbidden to do so by an arbitrary (in my opinion in this specific case I do understand why it exists) rule. At least the console version could be the best possible before it exits development.

I'd love to be wrong -- the more people who can enjoy this unique piece of software the better -- it would just be a big surprise, albeit a pleasant one.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Mako

[Space Station 4 Crash]

Just remember your promise SQUAD. We already bought the console version and have waited a year and a half. We are not paying for anything else with the "Fixed Edition"?... Right?.....RIIIIIIGHT?

[Cheif Operations Director]

3 hours ago, Mako said:

That is a very good point. Thank you. I had forgotten when/what update those features were added.

 

While I understand that the general rule of software development is to finish a project before moving on (i.e. finish console 1.2.2 before doing 1.3), it still strikes me as horribly inefficient and likely more expensive to spend over half a year implementing a system (old UI) that you always intended to replace with a system that is already completed (1.3 UI).

If it was a decision to get the console version out sooner, then I can at least understand it but it still means that bringing 1.3 and all the languages will take even longer and cost even more money. And that's not to say anything about a console 1.4 since it will likely not be out by the time the console re-launch occurs. My concern for all of this that I suspect the console versions have not sold well so far, and I'm pessimistic about future sales even after it's fixed. In turn, I'm pessimistic about Take-Two's interest in spending money on the console versions. Unless it won't cost very much, I don't expect to see the console versions updated past 1.2.2 (besides a bug fix or two if necessary and in budget). That's why I think it would have been far better to have moved targets as far forward as possible despite being forbidden to do so by an arbitrary (in my opinion in this specific case I do understand why it exists) rule. At least the console version could be the best possible before it exits development.

I'd love to be wrong -- the more people who can enjoy this unique piece of software the better -- it would just be a big surprise, albeit a pleasant one.

I think we will get more than 1.2.2 they wouldn't invest all that money in 1.2.2 if they didn't want to keep it alive, Blitworks made it from scratch with no code for FTE Version, they would do that if they where going to ditch it after word they would just patch the 1.1 version of killer bugs and then released a bad version of 1.2.2 if they did not care on continuing consoles, but they didn't. Console wont be a priority but it isn't going to stop after 1.2.2 I think. Also I don't think take two is affecting development in a bad way, at least not yet

[regex]

On 12/8/2017 at 1:49 PM, SQUAD said:

Likewise, the fairings have also been given a visual revamp, and will, too, have switchable texture configurations, but an image is worth a thousand words, so take a peek.

This is really cool, could we also get a much, much slimmer fairing base to go along with those new textures?

[Red Shirt]

On 12/10/2017 at 3:17 PM, StrandedonEarth said:

But when you can have nice shiny stock parts.... (Thanks to @Electrocutor's stock conversion patch for @Shadowmage's Textures Unlimited PBR shader bundle)

I know, each to his own, but after the 'glaring' comment here on using the PBR shaders, I had to see for myself. I downloaded the above tiny mod/patches. They take up next to no room and require minimal memory to run. I found the visual change in the stock parts to be pretty amazing. At this point I'm hoping @Electrocutor writes a cfg for stock parts in the Making History release when it comes out. 

[Mako]

2 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I think we will get more than 1.2.2 they wouldn't invest all that money in 1.2.2 if they didn't want to keep it alive, Blitworks made it from scratch with no code for FTE Version, they would do that if they where going to ditch it after word they would just patch the 1.1 version of killer bugs and then released a bad version of 1.2.2 if they did not care on continuing consoles, but they didn't. Console wont be a priority but it isn't going to stop after 1.2.2 I think. Also I don't think take two is affecting development in a bad way, at least not yet

I appreciate your optimism, but unfortunately I won't believe it until it's announced, and even then I'll be surprised. Pleased, but surprised.

Fixing the very broken, but not completely unuasble, console versions was almost a necessity. At least from a PR standpoint if not a financial one. To do that, they had to throw out the hack job that FTE produced because it would have been more work to fix something that broken than it would be to start over. At the time of starting over 1.2.2 was already done and it not only brought new features to players, it also cleaned up a lot of the lines of code which would make it easier to do the port work. (Perhaps if that had been done before FTE was tasked with the work they would have had an easier time and produced better results, but that isn't important now and, if I'm being completely blunt, it doesn't seem likely given FTE's portfolio.) So moving to 1.2.2 wasn't a we're doing this for the players reason as much as it was the logical easier to implement with the best chance of success especially since we're starting over from scratch reason. It would have been foolish to try again to make the 1.0.5 or 1.1 (or whichever version FTE used) code work again when better code was already available. The we're doing it for the players is just a nice marketing angle to present. And for the record, I do believe the Squad employees truly want to put out the best product possible, so, while it may be the best marketing angle, I do believe that they mean it when they say that. No one likes doing bad work. Business is business and business decisions get made with money in mind, but there are real people working there who care about the work they do and want to make people happy with by doing it.

All that said, these decisions were made and the work begun before Take-Two had bought the KSP IP. The only thing we know about the future of the product since Take-Two bought it is that all the current plans (update console versions to 1.2.2 and PC versions would get more languages and paid DLC) are going to continue. Beyond that it's anyone's guess.

My guess remains that console development with stop at 1.2.2 unless console sales figures are really impressive or updates beyond 1.2.2 are relatively inexpensive to produce. And if they don't one sell many console copies, I highly doubt they'll be interested in spending money to port over DLC.

I apologize for my pessimism; it's my general nature but it also means I love to be wrong.

[Cheif Operations Director]

4 minutes ago, Mako said:

I appreciate your optimism, but unfortunately I won't believe it until it's announced, and even then I'll be surprised. Pleased, but surprised.

Fixing the very broken, but not completely unuasble, console versions was almost a necessity. At least from a PR standpoint if not a financial one. To do that, they had to throw out the hack job that FTE produced because it would have been more work to fix something that broken than it would be to start over. At the time of starting over 1.2.2 was already done and it not only brought new features to players, it also cleaned up a lot of the lines of code which would make it easier to do the port work. (Perhaps if that had been done before FTE was tasked with the work they would have had an easier time and produced better results, but that isn't important now and, if I'm being completely blunt, it doesn't seem likely given FTE's portfolio.) So moving to 1.2.2 wasn't a we're doing this for the players reason as much as it was the logical easier to implement with the best chance of success especially since we're starting over from scratch reason. It would have been foolish to try again to make the 1.0.5 or 1.1 (or whichever version FTE used) code work again when better code was already available. The we're doing it for the players is just a nice marketing angle to present. And for the record, I do believe the Squad employees truly want to put out the best product possible, so, while it may be the best marketing angle, I do believe that they mean it when they say that. No one likes doing bad work. Business is business and business decisions get made with money in mind, but there are real people working there who care about the work they do and want to make people happy with by doing it.

All that said, these decisions were made and the work begun before Take-Two had bought the KSP IP. The only thing we know about the future of the product since Take-Two bought it is that all the current plans (update console versions to 1.2.2 and PC versions would get more languages and paid DLC) are going to continue. Beyond that it's anyone's guess.

My guess remains that console development with stop at 1.2.2 unless console sales figures are really impressive or updates beyond 1.2.2 are relatively inexpensive to produce. And if they don't one sell many console copies, I highly doubt they'll be interested in spending money to port over DLC.

I apologize for my pessimism; it's my general nature but it also means I love to be wrong.

I squad member told we would get 1.3 saying this in response to my question about the SENTINEL Telescope.

"The Sentinel is in version 1.3.0. The upcoming console release is 1.2.2. So not quite yet, but there should be regular releases from now on."

Proof enough?

Edited December 11, 2017 by Cheif Operations Director

[Mako]

19 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I squad member told we would get 1.3 saying this in response to my question about the SENTINEL Telescope.

"The Sentinel is in version 1.3.0. The upcoming console release is 1.2.2. So not quite yet, but there should be regular releases from now on."

Proof enough?

I really do appreciate your optimism and I hope that comes across, but business is business and Squad no longer controls KSP or what happens to it. As such, I regret that I am unable to share your optimism.

That being said, in lieu of any other statement official or otherwise, I will take your word for it and hope that it comes to pass. As I said, I believe the team at Squad want to put together the best product possible and make it available to as many people as possible. I trust that they mean what they say in that regard.

[majNUN]

Just wondering if complete sound effects will be added in the next update?

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, Mako said:

I really do appreciate your optimism and I hope that comes across, but business is business and Squad no longer controls KSP or what happens to it. As such, I regret that I am unable to share your optimism.

That being said, in lieu of any other statement official or otherwise, I will take your word for it and hope that it comes to pass. As I said, I believe the team at Squad want to put together the best product possible and make it available to as many people as possible. I trust that they mean what they say in that regard.

No a SQUAD Member told me that not a person 

[Bottle Rocketeer 500]

On 12/10/2017 at 3:26 PM, passinglurker said:

No disagreement here the new models have generally been nice. Its the textures that haven't consistently met the mark.

Agreed!

[Yakuzi]

3 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

"The Sentinel is in version 1.3.0. The upcoming console release is 1.2.2. So not quite yet, but there should be regular releases from now on."

Can you provide a credible reference?

@SQUAD @Darth Badie is it true that the console version will get more updates... that would be pretty big news.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, Yakuzi said:

Can you provide a credible reference?

@SQUAD @Darth Badie is it true that the console version will get more updates... that would be pretty big news.

None that I can prove because it was in a private conversation between me and a SQUAD Member

[Capt Snuggler]

On 12/9/2017 at 12:15 PM, Majorjim! said:

Sorry to be 'that guy' but the current RCS tank looks a lot better than those odd replacements.. It looks like a low res basket of eggs.

I'm reluctant to say this because I'm so wildly enthusiastic about a part revamp, but I think @SQUAD have chosen to fix a part that was not broken.

 

Why replace this part when these are still in the game?:

only the most tediously contrary player could defend these jarringly outdated models.

 

what made you pick that tank to replace out of all the old parts?

[0111narwhalz]

First they clamour for an overhaul.
Then they clamour for their favorite eyesore to be overhauled first.

I wonder: Did the PorkJet revamp include the FL-R25? Perhaps they're just filling in holes and preparing to take that project off the shelf and put it back on the table,

[Cheif Operations Director]

I wish they would do what their doing fourths fairing. A second OPTIONAL Texture

[Red Shirt]

1 hour ago, Capt Snuggler said:

only the most tediously contrary player could defend these jarringly outdated models.

But I like big orange. I added a mod (Munar Industries) that gives me a shorter orange and some and coned orange tanks. To each his own.

[stibbons]

13 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

None that I can prove because it was in a private conversation between me and a SQUAD Member

Not the first time you've claimed to have been told major scoops by an employee of a company that's been pretty good at playing their hand close until, well, this month. 

Citation definitely needed. 

22 hours ago, Mako said:

it still strikes me as horribly inefficient and likely more expensive to spend over half a year implementing a system (old UI) that you always intended to replace with a system that is already completed (1.3 UI).

You're operating with hindsight. Which is always 20/20. The folk who had a mess to clean up a year ago and had to get it right the first time didn't have that advantage, so they played it safe. 

[passinglurker]

1 hour ago, Capt Snuggler said:

I'm reluctant to say this because I'm so wildly enthusiastic about a part revamp, but I think @SQUAD have chosen to fix a part that was not broken.

All those old non-PJ parts are broken actually. Textile density is off, textures are wasteful and inefficient, etc... A replacement is a replacement IMO as long as the texture is up to scratch so that we don't ad yet more layers to kerbal's artistic geology. Unfortunately either due to thier "agile" development strategy, lack of resources, or flat out unwillingness to put in the effort we haven't seen that sort of commitment to consistency demonstrated yet 

[Kaa253]

Amazing every week to read messages from people obsessed with finding fault in the best video game of all time.

[regex]

22 minutes ago, Kaa253 said:

Amazing every week to read messages from people obsessed with finding fault in the best video game of all time.

If it was the best game of all time there would be no need to criticize its outdated graphics and "see what sticks" career mode. It certainly has lots of potential but then, I've played lots of games with lots of potential.

I'll give you one thing though, it's probably the best "Must Be Modded To Play" game I've played. 

[Mako]

1 hour ago, stibbons said:

You're operating with hindsight. Which is always 20/20. The folk who had a mess to clean up a year ago and had to get it right the first time didn't have that advantage, so they played it safe. 

You're 100% correct. Hindsight is easier to see with than foresight and they were playing it safe. And I'm not criticizing that.

What I am saying is playing it safe is far less efficient and likely more expensive if the intention was always to move past 1.2.2. The reason I brought it up at all is because I suspect the console versions have not sold well so far and I worry that they will continue to not sell well even after they're fixed. And I'm concerned that development resources will be moved away from an underperforming product as soon as the commitment to fix it has been met. I'll be happy if I'm wrong.

[tater]

3 hours ago, 0111narwhalz said:

First they clamour for an overhaul.
Then they clamour for their favorite eyesore to be overhauled first.

Is there a single person who thinks the smallest three of the 2.5m tanks are anything but awful looking?

I'm not a fan of the big, orange tank, either, but at least I know what it is trying to be.

[Deddly]

Graphics are important to some people, and then some people are happy with Minecraft's default graphics. We need to accept that not everyone has the same priorities.

[tater]

12 minutes ago, Deddly said:

Graphics are important to some people, and then some people are happy with Minecraft's default graphics. We need to accept that not everyone has the same priorities.

It's about consistency, not the overall graphics quality.

The PJ spaceplane parts look sleek, functional, and they all match each other. The rocket parts?

None of the above. If the spaceplane parts looked like the 3 short, utterly ugly 2.5m tanks, then the game would be consistent. Having added nice looking plane parts, they need to do the same for rockets. Pick an aesthetic. Is KSP repurposed junkyard parts or not, it needs to be one or the other.