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Arianespace launch thread

should general ESA stuff get a seperate thread or be on this thread?  

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  1. 1. should general ESA stuff get a seperate thread or be on this thread?

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About two hours out! I should be able to catch this one fairly easily.

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Liftoff! I almost missed it, I remembered it was happening a minute before.

Heh. Everyone's going crazy about Scott Manley being in the chat...

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To those who would prefer to have the images and engines sound without the comments, this video can be nice:

 

This channel got some really nice footage from the different launches at the CSG, but none of them are available in English... the CNES touch.

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Does anyone else find this concept mightily confusing? Put the payload into a lifting body, under a fairing, so that you can recover the lifting body afterwords. I can see utility for the lifting body assuming it does some mission itself (ie:X-37b), but "end to end" implies the whole stack is reused, no?

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5 hours ago, tater said:

Does anyone else find this concept mightily confusing? Put the payload into a lifting body, under a fairing, so that you can recover the lifting body afterwords. I can see utility for the lifting body assuming it does some mission itself (ie:X-37b), but "end to end" implies the whole stack is reused, no?

I think the beef is this: "Space Rider will return to Earth with the payloads stowed in its cargo bay"

Ergo the customer gets her/his payload back so it is reuseable too. Your X-37B analogy is a perfect match; this does exactly the same thing except the service is sold commercially. Probably a much smaller payload bay though?

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8 minutes ago, monophonic said:
6 hours ago, tater said:

Does anyone else find this concept mightily confusing? Put the payload into a lifting body, under a fairing, so that you can recover the lifting body afterwords. I can see utility for the lifting body assuming it does some mission itself (ie:X-37b), but "end to end" implies the whole stack is reused, no?

I think the beef is this: "Space Rider will return to Earth with the payloads stowed in its cargo bay"

Ergo the customer gets her/his payload back so it is reuseable too. Your X-37B analogy is a perfect match; this does exactly the same thing except the service is sold commercially. Probably a much smaller payload bay though?

Indeed.

I'm not sure how this has any advantage over a Dragon 1 style capsule approach.

Maybe the payload bay is easier to open/close?

Or maybe a lifting body has lower gee-loading than a capsule?

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1 minute ago, sevenperforce said:

Indeed.

I'm not sure how this has any advantage over a Dragon 1 style capsule approach.

Maybe the payload bay is easier to open/close?

Or maybe a lifting body has lower gee-loading than a capsule?

I think the point of lifting bodies is that they are more maneuverable on reentry for targeting smaller landings sites.

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11 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

Or maybe a lifting body has lower gee-loading than a capsule?

This.

5 minutes ago, Canopus said:

I think the point of lifting bodies is that they are more maneuverable on reentry for targeting smaller landings sites.

This too.

Well, either one kinda follows from the other one.

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6 hours ago, tater said:
Does anyone else find this concept mightily confusing? Put the payload into a lifting body, under a fairing, so that you can recover the lifting body afterwords. I can see utility for the lifting body assuming it does some mission itself (ie:X-37b), but "end to end" implies the whole stack is reused, no?

Confusing, who is going to pay someone to release their payload and then repick it up again.

"Hey AO  errr ehm yeah thanks for releasing my super duper ION driven Mars lander, yes, hmm, its on Mars at the moment could you, like, go there pick it up and return to Earth."

{crickets chirping in the back ground}

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Just now, PB666 said:

Confusing, who is going to pay someone to release their payload and then repick it up again.

"Hey AO  errr ehm yeah thanks for releasing my super duper ION driven Mars lander, yes, hmm, its on Mars at the moment could you, like, go there pick it up and return to Earth."

{crickets chirping in the back ground}

This is meant for exposure experiments that you want to analyze in a lab afterwards. Sort of like the stuff on the outside of the ISS, but probably cheaper.

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4 minutes ago, PB666 said:

Confusing, who is going to pay someone to release their payload and then repick it up again.

"Hey AO  errr ehm yeah thanks for releasing my super duper ION driven Mars lander, yes, hmm, its on Mars at the moment could you, like, go there pick it up and return to Earth."

{crickets chirping in the back ground}

The graphic shows a payload being jettisoned, but this would only work for people who want to pay to have their payloads tested in a fixed but open-to-vacuum microgravity environment AND want it back, since if you jettison something it's almost definitely not coming back.

Not unless you are also going to have a payload with autonomous docking ability.

 

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6 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

The graphic shows a payload being jettisoned, but this would only work for people who want to pay to have their payloads tested in a fixed but open-to-vacuum microgravity environment AND want it back, since if you jettison something it's almost definitely not coming back.

Not unless you are also going to have a payload with autonomous docking ability.

 

Is the launch an actual paying customer or an ESA welfare project.

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9 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

The graphic shows a payload being jettisoned, but this would only work for people who want to pay to have their payloads tested in a fixed but open-to-vacuum microgravity environment AND want it back, since if you jettison something it's almost definitely not coming back.

Not unless you are also going to have a payload with autonomous docking ability.

 

That biconic thing with solar panels looks like a service module being jettisoned before re-entry rather than a payload to me. Definitely not a fully reuseable system then, but we knew that already from use of the Vega launcher. Perhaps the end-to-end reuseability is meant to only concern the customer's payload? Dunno, I'm not a salesperson.

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4 minutes ago, monophonic said:

That biconic thing with solar panels looks like a service module being jettisoned before re-entry rather than a payload to me. Definitely not a fully reuseable system then, but we knew that already from use of the Vega launcher. Perhaps the end-to-end reuseability is meant to only concern the customer's payload? Dunno, I'm not a salesperson.

It's the last stage of the Vega-C acting as a service module, yes.

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Yeah, the image looks like a deployed payload (gone, never to return), and the thing says "reusable end to end"---perhaps they don't understand that that implies that the entire thing from fairing nose to booster engine bells (end to end) should be reusable.

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21 minutes ago, tater said:

Yeah, the image looks like a deployed payload (gone, never to return), and the thing says "reusable end to end"---perhaps they don't understand that that implies that the entire thing from fairing nose to booster engine bells (end to end) should be reusable.

End to end in this case is probably describing how it handles your payload from launch to landing, less of a literal description of the vehicle, nose to end, but more how the space rider will handle electric supply, attitude control and downlink and of course the return to earth.

Edit: I looked around and End-to-end seems to be a business term, although i haven't found a good and clear definition yet.

Edited by Canopus

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1 hour ago, Canopus said:

End to end in this case is probably describing how it handles your payload from launch to landing, less of a literal description of the vehicle, nose to end, but more how the space rider will handle electric supply, attitude control and downlink and of course the return to earth.

Edit: I looked around and End-to-end seems to be a business term, although i haven't found a good and clear definition yet.

Right. End-to-end is a business term in commodity transportation. It means they control transportation and servicing of a particular item from start to finish.

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Took from the manual:

WIuRrsM.jpg

 

When Arianespace is promoting flatardness unconsciously.

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52 minutes ago, XB-70A said:

Took from the manual:

WIuRrsM.jpg

 

When Arianespace is promoting flatardness unconsciously.

it also looks like they don't believe in the southern hemisphere, maybe they think its on the other side?

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3 hours ago, tater said:
For an expendable, it's a pretty rocket, particularly the 64.

Being partially reusable doesn‘t really help you in the looks department, if you look at falcon 9 at least. 

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